|#1 by essword|
2018-02-11 at 16:03
|Is not a real route. Nothing happens in it. No plot, just two h-scenes one after the other. If she's your goal for playing the game, don't expect much out of it.|
Even Nicola's route in Yuzu's Dracu-riot had stuff happen in it (even if it was dumb stuff).
|#2 by cnkx|
2018-02-11 at 19:45
|seeing as she's not even in the cover, im not surprised. She's probably wrongly in the main character section, I dunno|
|#3 by phantomjs|
2018-02-12 at 22:43
|I agree. Yuzusoft's games all have at least 1 extra heroine route. Kariya's route is the shortest among all of them that i have played.|
Anyone reading this post; don't expect it to be like Roka's/Koharu's route (Senren Banka) or you will be SORELY disappointed
|#4 by kiru|
2018-02-13 at 11:38
|@2: Main character doesn't necessarily mean it's a main heroine. Or at least it shouldn't. But there's no one definite way it's done on vndb. Considering all characters but the "main heroines" automatically side characters is however not doing a lot of these "side characters" justice. There are enough games that focus as much on one or more of these as on the heroines, if not more. It's just the difference of a character and heroine. Main character != main heroine. Side character != sub heroine. We should probably have traits for that stuff though.|
|#5 by cnkx|
2018-02-13 at 11:53
|@4 and all those games are mostly certainly not character driven, romantic moeges, are they? you can probably count by fingers how many moeges actually have meaningful characters that could potentially get "main character" status other than the heroines. And there's a high chance that in this specific case, that character that has an excuse for a route shouldn't be considered main.|
After all, in these types of games, character importance is heavily decided by their routes.Last modified on 2018-02-13 at 11:54
|#6 by phantomjs|
2018-02-14 at 04:58
So how do you define Kariya in this case?
She have both an actual route and is feat quite a bit in the main story. Definitely not a sub character imo
|#7 by cnkx|
2018-02-14 at 05:54
|@6 well you guys already established that her route isn't even a route, so if she's not a "true" heroine then maybe it's misleading to have her as a main character because this is a moege.|
Like, the 3 main male friend characters in majikoi are listed as side characters in this site and they have a shit ton of presence (literally always on screen) and they have short friend routes. Why are they not main chars then?
EDIT: and majikoi also has sub heroines with short routes, they're also considered side chars there.
If you think she has that much presence to be considered a main char, then it's a flaw with this site that there's no way to differentiate heroine/sub heroine/main char/side char.Last modified on 2018-02-14 at 05:56
|#8 by phantomjs|
2018-02-14 at 08:06
I said hers was the shortest among all extra heroine routes in Yuzusoft's games. I didnt't say her route wasn't a route
And I don't get why you bought up Majikoi. The original one only has 4 routes (correct me if I'm wrong. Haven't played for years). The rest of the characters gets sub-character status as mainly (imo) they don't have a route
as shown in the game's VNDB entry page.
For S, every heroine which has routes, AND decent screen time and character development gets main character status. I totally agree with the likes of Mayo and Iyo getting sub characters status as even though they have routes, it is so short and feels very tacked-on, with little prior character development with Yamato beyond being in the same class as him.
In Kariya's case, she is the best friend of the protagonist, is featured quite heavily in the beginning of the game, and her route has more character development with Shuji and isn't some tacked-on and rushed shit (Yamato, can we go and a baseball game together? yess---> after game, we fucked and lived happily ever after. Wtf? O.O...)
Personally, at the end of the day, I don't think there's a good and clear way to solve this issue. Don't think it's a big issue too. Relax, bro :)Last modified on 2018-02-14 at 08:09
|#9 by kiru|
2018-02-14 at 09:12
|@5,7: It doesn't matter if it's a moege, charage or whatever. It can happen in any VN.|
Also please don't use examples in the database for anything here. Like I said, there is no single standard, so sometimes things are done in one way, sometimes in another. So just because Majikoi uses "side character" for characters that are arguably main characters doesn't really say anything about that being the way to do it. Little Busters lists its guys as "main". It's just... random. Kinda. I wouldn't mind a standard, but you won't be able do get one from looking at current entries.
|#10 by cnkx|
2018-02-14 at 09:49
|@9 If there is no consistency as to how things should be done, that kinda makes it hard to take anything as "right" or "wrong" then, meaning that none of us here are even truly correct, not you and not me. It all just amounts to people constantly arguing about the same things to no avail.|
It certainly happens a lot in this site, people can never decide on any standards which leads to endless threads about the same things. But I guess at the end of the day that's part of the whole user-made DB thing.
I'll just do the smart thing and end this discussion on my part, I've always been one to realize when discussions will end to no solution, meaning we'd probably keep going for 10 pages straight for the same outcome - disagreement and no right solution.Last modified on 2018-02-14 at 09:49
|#11 by sterben-zero|
2018-02-15 at 12:09
|Different people, different opinions|
|#12 by kiru|
2018-02-15 at 13:43
|The confusion here is from way back, the dating sim age where any character outside of the heroines are supporting characters. After all the main point of those games was dating a girl. Current VNs may be evolutions (or regressions, depending on your view) of those, but they are a lot less strict in that regard. While a lot of them still work in that way, as in no character but the heroines are really important, not all of them do. Tags are actually suffering from that as well. You have tags for heroines, heroes and supporting characters. It's 2018. This isn't enough. |
There's also the confusion about character != heroine. It's a character page, not a page listing heroines. Wakana for example is definitely a sub heroine. No doubt about that. That's why I'd like traits here. Having a character be "main" just because they have a mini route seems wrong, but girls in the "side" category don't need to have a route.
So, in other words, it's not so much about arguments and disagreeing with how it's supposed to be done, it's rather about times changing. But, there's also a little other thing to keep in mind: Most information on vndb is added before the games in question are even out. And especially with JP only ones you may not get any changes there. Especially if you can look at a character in two ways and people are just not REALLY caring in the end. A character being main or side is ultimately always subjective. I know that was the case for me a couple of times already.
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