|#1 by italianlink|
2018-05-29 at 16:24
|< report >I love this game so much and I wish more people would play it. I wonder if it's not as popular as others because of how difficult some of the Japanese can be? I have to have a dictionary with me at all times when I play this one, otherwise I won't know what's going on half of the time. Especially during the religious ceremonies. Sometimes I don't even bother, especially for some of Munesada's chant things.|
Anyway, I know the game isn't without its flaws. Some of the CG's are honestly appalling, particularly for Munesada's route, which is a total shame because he's my favorite of the bunch (so far), but I just feel like everything else that's so wonderful about this game makes up for it. I love the sprites and the backgrounds and I think the music is lovely. I love all the voice acting and I think every single character is just super precious and interesting. It really sucks that no one is really playing this game, it feels like they put so much effort and love into and it's hardly getting the attention it deserves. At least with the English crowd, anyway. It could be doing much better in Japan for all I know.
Anyway, I just wanted to vent about this. I've been trying to fill in the page with more information to hopefully pique more interest in the game. I don't know how to get get pictures of the raw sprites though, so Mana doesn't have a picture yet. If anyone reads this who knows how to do this, please share! The guide wasn't very helpful. I just want his picture to match the format of all the other characters' pictures so everything is uniform. If I figure out how to do it, I'll probably add as many other charas as I can, I'm just hesitant to keep adding charas without any pictures.
Also, please feel free to correct anything you see that I've added. I will not take offense, I want the page to be accurate and detailed. That's all. I was considering changing the game description to make it more cohesive and detailed, but I would first have to see if there's an official description that's a little more detailed than the current one. I don't know if I'll end up doing it or not, though.. I'm not sure if I want to erase someone else's work, you know? That could hurt their feelings. I don't know.
Anyway, I hope more people will be attracted to the game now. I played it on a whim, and I'm so, so happy I did. I've laughed and cried countless times and it's just been a totally amazing ride. I can't wait to finally complete it! I have one more character to go.
|#2 by anonymous|
2018-05-29 at 17:12
|< report >>Very long|
Can't imagine why this is unpopular!
|#3 by aquahorse|
2018-05-29 at 17:59
|< report >Same as with Galtia and other yaoi novels unfortunately.|
|#4 by italianlink|
2018-05-31 at 02:07
|< report >All good points, and yeah I guess so. I'm definitely playing Galtia after this though, I heard it's a lot darker than this game despite being from the same company, so I definitely want to check it out.|
For some reason I always assumed that a good amount of english-speaking BL fans would still be willing to play a game that's untranslated, but I guess that was kind of a silly assumption. I wouldn't think the length to be as big of an issue as language though, since Nitro+Chiral games are super long as well. Plus, all the H-schenes don't happen until the very end of each characters' route in those games. I mean, the H-scenes in this game start towards the end too, but you also get more of them than you do in Nitro+Chiral games. Also the voice acting is a little better, I think. If I'm remembering right. Nitro+Chiral's CGs are superior though, so that might be another factor. Like I said, some of the CGs in this one are pretty hard to look at. Most of the H-scene ones are decent though, thank god.
I wish someone would translate this game. I really want more people to play it. Part of me wants to translate it myself, but I think it'd just be a mess. My Japanese isn't quite at that level yet, so I'm sure there would be plenty of mistakes. I never realized how difficult it can be to translate Japanese. You have to like find the right balance between not being so literal that you come off as awkward and confusing, but also not being so liberal that you lose the original meaning/author's intent. I applaud those who can accomplish this, I was honestly struggling with just the damn character profiles. My translations probably sound super awkward, I was trying to stick as closely to the original as possible. It was a lot of fun, though. I can't wait to do it again :)Last modified on 2018-05-31 at 02:11
|#5 by Orodalf|
2022-02-10 at 04:08
|< report >Quick thoughts|
* Common route was really good; so very *cultured*
* Mune route was total blood-boiling trash; it sucks that it's the first route
* Shuu route was the best written of the LI routes (this coming from someone who didn't really like Shuu very much)
* Kyou route was the best for its ero CGs
* That CG right before the end on the last route was absolutely worth playing through this entire game for
* The CGs in general are plagued with technical issues
And many thanks for touching up this page, I'd never have been interested in the game if not for this page.Last modified on 2022-02-10 at 04:11
|#6 by jinuzuki|
2023-02-06 at 16:12
|< report >I can echo the comment over mine, at least up to the part about Mune's route. Common route was insanely good, and I was enjoying even the route but the the plot swerve with with him him turning insane and raping the protagonist and the part after playing some weird horror movie where he kidnaps you was such an insane and out of place development for a vanilla romance and a game about friendship it perma-turned me off the game. Even the bad ending with the journalist in the common route didn't feel as crazy.|
Honestly thought it was a bad ending at first, I'm surprised none of the reviews I read called it, usually there is a warning for these kinds of characters (though admittedly it was such an absurd change anyone who didn't finish the route wouldn't know, it's one of the most OOC stuff I ever seen) Though at least one JP review saying to not drop it otherwise you risk dropping the game after the fact lol.
Edit: After deciding to at least finish the route, yeah the last 10% of the route felt like a poorly rushed dramafest that doesn't even address a lot of stuff set-up by the route for some half-assed happy ending. I wonder if it was the last route they did hmm?
Setting and the characters are interesting, it would probably be well received in ENG since it seems like the other routes are at least better. Though I wouldn't be surprised to hear the game was rushed or plague with development problems, the CG in particular seem borderline grotesque at times and then you occasionally get some *very* good ones. Not sure why, sprites, OST and background where pretty good. Sadly I can't find many info about it even in JP, not exactly a hit game I think.Last modified on 2023-02-07 at 22:44
|#7 by jinuzuki|
2023-03-04 at 18:34
|< report >Doing Kyou's route definitely improved my opinion of the game. Very fun, good pacing, decent amount of drama and lighter stuff, and the actual romance it's pretty good developed to the start to the end. Even the bad endings were an interesting take on "what if they don't fix he underling problems of their relationships"? I've seen some people recommending it as the last route to play, but I don't think it matters much.|
I wonder if Munesada's route was rushed or what, I get what the author was going for with the whole "love you make you crazy" theme the route has going for , but it was such a swerve it ended up feeling OOC stuff more than anything (Which I guess it's sorta the point "Wow he's not acting like himself", but still...) to me and the ending refusal to address the plot point about Munesada's life span makes me think it definitely had some weird development issue. At least the character gets back to normal eventually but wew.
Looking forward doing Shuu's route later and finally Tsukasa. Common route still the better part of the game though.
Also I wonder what's up with the CG in this game. As @Orodalf said they are plagued with technical issues. I think they realized themselves it because they put all the good ones on the site to bait people lol. Everything else is pretty high quality, especially the sprites and the voice cast. I think this is the role that turned me into a Makoto Furukawa, his performance in this game is amazing and his low voice is nothing I've heard him doing before.
I wonder why it wasn't a hit with the JP audience.Last modified on 2023-03-06 at 22:58
|#8 by italianlink|
2023-03-07 at 03:42
|< report >It's nice seeing some other perspectives! Have to say I'm surprised about the munesada stuff feeling out of nowhere for some people; it's been a while but i think i remember feeling pretty early on that things could or would go that direction if they weren't careful, and as a result not being very surprised by the bad ending. I felt like there were lots of events throughout the game that made it quite clear that he had a) huge control issues and b) a clear obsession with MC which of course culminated in c) extreme control issues specifically when it comes to MC. I thought it was especially significant that during their first really one-on-one meeting, the scene at the izakaya or whatever it was, he quickly decides that he knows what's best for MC--regardless of his wishes or desperate pleas--and rather heavy-handedly forces him into sitting through the spiritual..thingi lol. I felt like his unwillingness to even /consider/ hearing MC out was some of the earliest evidence of those extreme control issues and represented a pretty huge red flag. Him having lived as basically a god meant he never really learned to think of himself as being at the same level as others, and therefore as needing to confer and compromise with them as equals instead of bulldozing over their opinions to fulfill his own judgement/will.|
In that and a lot of other instances it felt to me like he saw MC not as a fellow adult but almost as something like a beloved pet that he was extremely attached to and (unknowingly) emotionally dependent on. It felt like he cared about him, but ultimately didn't see him as capable of reasoning for himself like an adult (or maybe "like someone of mune's stature", of which there is no one but mune according to the island's religion lol) or of properly caring for himself, as mune felt (and wanted to believe) that everything pertaining to MC's health and well-being was his personal responsibility. Like a pet owner might feel that it doesn't matter how much they whine about it, their pet needs to receive shots in order to be healthy and avoid disease. And I think similarly, (in munesada's mind), MC's whining didn't matter; he needed to undergo those rituals because that was what would make him better (nevermind that mune's judgement was likely clouded by his own wants. he doesn't even consider getting second opinions or anything from anyone. but he likely has not been made to question the validity of his own judgements much at all, what with him basically being a god and all that). And of course he was also shown to be very overprotective too, which combined with obsession and control issues and MC being basically his only friend in the world besides that one girl I can't remember the name of at this moment... yeah.
Anyway, I guess it just seemed to me like all the conditions were there to result in the storm so I wasn't as thrown when it happened.. but maybe I just have a radar for these things, lol. But either way, I can definitely understand it not being some (or maybe even most) people's cup of tea. I certainly enjoyed his route though with the exception of the CG issues; it ended up remaining in my top two even after finishing right next to ma boy Kyou.
Sorry for horrible formatting, procrastinating on things I need to get done but now I really don't have time to keep messing around online anymore. Might try cleaning it up a bit at a later date if I find the time.
Oh and thanks everyone for continuing the conversation :)Last modified on 2023-03-07 at 03:42
|#9 by jinuzuki|
2023-03-09 at 16:24
|< report >Oh yay someone to talk about this game (also your nick... are you Italian too lol?)|
Regarding your post I never really got any noncon vibes from the Seto scene, particularly because Souta was already having at attack. We saw it with Tsukasa and Shuu before, once the reaction starts he can't control himself, and from the point of Munesada, who is more aware of the spiritual world and got asked by Souta's grandmother to take care of him, he's quite literally just performing a ritual to make him feel better. Of course the thing plays like sex lol but still. Thinking about the "consent" in those scenes is a bit weird to me, it's not quite sex even if plays like that and both Tsukasa and Shuu's scene have weird stuff, like Souta pretty much using Shuu's hand and Tsukasa commenting it felt like sex lol
They are embarrassing scenes but ultimately harmless for Souta.
In the same way about the rituals Munesada is largely in the right, because Souta is non functional as a person at that point and spends several days basically not even remembering his name. He does come off as obsessive (even if that at point is not clear to me if he's still into him romantically yet? Honestly I always got mixed signals haha, but in-story his obsessional and protectiveness make senses. I think Tsukasa also asked him to help iirc) Shuu does point using the Shrine will create a ruckus and mess with the island traditions, but I also felt like this is the route where the story the most goes "the island traditions are often a load of shit" and traditions shouldn't exist to make people's lives worse.
To be honest, the weirdest part of Kyou's route was how the heck did Munesada allow him to live with Kyou? Souta was basically half brain damaged for several days. Anyway...
I definitely agree there were some red flags, but that can be said about all characters (like Kyou's child-like attachment to Souta for example, which manifests in an extremely dark bad ending later), and I was fully expecting for them to appear in some bad endings. He does have a bit of a yandere vibe in some parts (like in some Shrine part lines) but they also happen in a context where he's forced to grow as the main character's caretaker otherwise Souta would literally kill himself. His anger issue seems mostly to stem from his trauma and past but his normal personality is about trying to do good for those he cares and "be a hero". In the dating scenes he's extremity good at respecting boundaries and asking for permission, even the first sex scene is more vanilla than Kyou's one in the way they were both super into each other lol and planned for it (Him asking straight up asking if they can do it one week in advance gave me a big lol). Or the scene where he forbids the main character to leave his mansion, he immediately corrects himself, apologizes with a Dogeza and lets him go, which shows sign of character development and self-awareness.
I feel like the author was really into the whole "Love makes you go crazy" thing, which I can see, but I feel like the whole episode was so sudden and removed? Like he goes to normal to crazy in 0.5 seconds, I feel like the moment needed some major introspection. Like maybe a scene from Munesada's pov with narration explaining what he thinks he's doing. It's basically written as an "Intentionally OOC moment" which everyone notes is "not acting like Munesada" but the switch is just too sudden. Like he almost murders Kyou and Souta even wonders if he'll be killed at one point... which is a lot. Even the sex scene is bizarre "I'll punish you for disobeying me", it just felt OOC compared to the first time they sleep together. Then you have the mistress bad ending which is just bananas. I guess the fact he puts himself on fire in a bad ending it means to show he's very much not mentally fine, but ??? The car scene has some hints that he knows Souta doesn't actually want to break up and he's in love with him (and Souta being receptive psychically at one point) but it's a bit too short.
Like I get the THEME, but I don't see it well applied in the character.
It does feel to me like the end game is a bit lacking in general compared to Kyou, like I would have liked to see for example a scene where Munesada apologizes to Shuu and Kyou or where they address the life span thing Natsuko and Shuu never finding out about the relationship was also disappointing (seriously, how didn't anyone suspect Munesada wasn't into women...?) Asakura is also ? At one point the narration was like "Munesada-san and Asakura talked but I don't know to this day what they talked about" which is very "I dunno how to untangle this" to me lol. Because the character are pretty much at odd with what they want.
It's easy to see why Souta would forgive him since it's not rape to love or anything and he was psychically and emotionally into him through the whole route and this dude spent like 60 hours saving the main character, but still.
The actual epilogue scenes with the mom, the final goodbye and Tokyo scene are very good, but a bit inconclusive. Is he going to move? Are they going to do a long distance thing? Does he still drop dead by 40-50?????
>I certainly enjoyed his route though with the exception of the CG issues
I think Kyou's route is better in term of execution (Like Kyou's dad is pretty great character in term of he's a moral fuck up but you can feel pity for him), Souta has a imo better grownth and I think the epilogue is more "round", but in term "emotionally investment" I'm probably more into Munesada because I liked the angle and theme for the route.
I did enjoy the route like up to 90%, tbh I'd still list him as my favorite love interest (I doubt Shuu will surpass him, maybe Tsukasa but I'm not into tragic endings and I'm 99% sure it ends like that) because him and Souta have very good natural chemistry and deredere relationship and in general I enjoy the whole "tragic love that overcomes obstacles and wins" angle, plus the childhood friend angle is very strong, with the route showing their first meeting, I just feel like the route could be.... better? Maybe more focus on them dating before he goes crazy and less focus on the other side couples (like Natsuko and Michio... I'm sorry but who gives a shit).
The dating segments between the two of them are absurdly good in the way they are both super into each other and casually about making out and stuff, even the 鳥の宮 scenes are super sweet in the way you can see how "they just works" personality wise and naturally jell into each other.
I also have no idea why he got the worst CGs. At least his voice actor is insanely good.
Tbh I remember reading that this game also has "zero non con, no one forces the mc to do anything" so it really caught me by surprise lol. At least it's more of a plot thing than random porn moment.
Looking forward doing Tsukasa and Shuu's routes when I have the time, I am very much into this game, I wish more people had played it to talk about it. <.< (also wow I wrote a lot... a bit excited to have someone to talk about this game haha)Last modified on 2023-03-09 at 19:55
|#10 by jinuzuki|
2023-03-18 at 00:20
|< report >Doing Shuu's route now, wow this is very good!|
Though tragically the plot left at this point is pretty paper thin in term of mystery, between the info Munesada and Kyou's route give you and the stuff you can figure if you pay attention (like it's obvious the 神隠し is not supernatural in nature since Shuu doesn't believe in it It's an ancient island but it seems the story mostly focused on the last 50 years or so. Well I guess at this point it's obvious a character drama with some supernatural background here and there.
It also feels like it's more what I wanted from Munesada's route in term of exploring the Oumi and the Watari stuff? The various interactions with all the cast in this route are a joy, it feels like it's making more use of the various cast members compared to his route where you are locked in the Shrine for a good part of it and Natsuko and Michio suck the joy of every scene. Even the twins and actually do something. As well actually... more stuff about Grandmother and Munesada's grandfather than Muensada's route itself?
Shuu's romance is also... not what I expected. In term of execution and how fast it proceeded LOL Almost too fast to be honest, it's been like 3 days in game? And Shuu felt like the most distant of the all. I do like the theme of mixing fear and excitement and looping back to their game as kids. And the beginning part where they more than friends but still not lovers has some pretty good vibes.
Hopefully it sticks to the landing, I'm at the penultimate choice and I'm fairly sure I'm not even 50% into the route.
|#11 by jinuzuki|
2023-03-22 at 18:37
|< report >Yeah, having finished Shuu's route now I was definitely impressed. |
It almost feels like he was a writer's favorite, in the way he gets the most extensive epilogue with a bunch of side characters and even other route characters appears even Munesada appears and gets a goodbye scene and you also get the feeling that Kyou's will do fine since Shuu will emotionally support him and Natsuko and Michio will do fine. As well Akasuka also getting a bunch of development. Even Oumi's stuff that should have been exclusive to Munesada's route get explored and much better handled in this route. I've seen some JP opinions that point out that it feels like the route is crossing into Munesada's stuff and that Munesada's route feels unsatisfying after this route and I got to agree.
Almost all the case ends up 90% better in this route, the only exception is Munesada who will remain obvious to love and will forever feel like an unwanted child. As well the ghosts character like Kyou's dad and Munesada's mother, but nothing one can do writing wise. Honestly toward the end I joked that I was also expecting Tsukasa to come back to live because because everyone was just getting better.
I fee like Shuu in particular is a type of tsundere you don't see much, he's perfectly capable of being dere and his tsun is almost self aware? He's not even my favorite character or anything but I was very impressed.
The only flaw I think is that pacing in this route is a bit odd, perhaps because Shuu has no major visible issue, with Kyou you had clear objects and with Munesada there was always the next thing to look forward. Also I guess it's weird they never talk much how they plan to handle the relationship given Shuu's family expect a heir, but I suppose it's less an issue with Shuu given he has a brother and he should have a normal life span. Oh as usual the game chicken out when it comes to other people finding out about the romance.
Honestly it feels like the route that most explored the island's themes about the inter-generation trauma and how it carried over to these kids and I was pleasantly surprised to see even evil grandma got some development. 宗春 (Munesada's grandfather) continues to be a puzzling character, I wonder if the last route will explain more. I feel ike the game sorta hints stuff between him and Hana were not what they seemed?Last modified on 2023-03-22 at 18:39
|#12 by jinuzuki|
2023-03-29 at 18:33
|< report >Alright, finally done with Tsukasa's route.|
I... did not enjoy it much for some reason?
It's a weird feeling, on paper I don't think it's a bad route or anything and it does stick to the landing, but I think I my natural developed antipathy for tragic gay romance made me sorta develop an antipathy for the romance midway in, since it's pretty much spelled out how it will end.
Like it does have a lot of stuff I like, like the group dynamic is back! The whole scene with the five of them is very good. But on other hand because I wasn't enjoying the romance I ended up feeling a lot of scenes were like "Ok I get it, everyone is sad and shit, let's move on."
I feel like Tsukasa worked for me better when it was this magic dream pixie boy for Souta, who helps him sort stuff out but ultimately fades out of existence at the end of the common route because he realizes they just don't have a future. Now I don't think a romance with him is out of place, it certainly fits into the theme of how things that are sad and fleeting and fragile (as Shuu puts it) have value, but I liked the version of the story that is presented in the other routes better, this dude finally finds an exit from all the sadness and finds actual joy and love with Munesada/Shuu/Kyuo.
And I don't know, Tsukasa's relationship was a bit too perfect for me? Like as even Souta say, they act like they have been married for 10 years. He calls him the "dream man". Which I guess that's the appeal, they are perfect for each other but the relationship is by all accounts something that shouldn't exist, even if Tsukasa had lived he would have been like 40 by the time Souta came back to the island, which would lead to a pretty different relationship since what makes Souta despair is the passage of time: With Tsukasa he gets the same dude he meet when he was a kid which makes him feel safe.
I do appreciate how the novel stuck to its theme and let him die, I feel like many other VN would have pulled a deus ex machina and let him live, but nope! I also did like the final explanation for the 逆おくり not what I expected.
Some random thoughts: I've seen this called the "true route", but I'm not sure it's the case? It does feel like very much an extra route that serves as the grand finale. But I don't think it act like the typical true route where all the stuff are solved. Side characters that aren't the main group are basically not really touched and even some of the group characters never really get their issue solved like Munesada and even Shuu. It also branches so early in the common route it makes all the gradma stuff feel like they barely matter to the MC
In general it does feel like every route is "incomplete" so to speak. Shuu felt like the most complete one to me with Munesada being the least complete.
Some stuff went unexplained, I think the twins being the most obvious issue. I have no idea why there was no scene in the final route with them and Tsukasa after all the hype (I mean there was but they just passed each other), especially since it's hinted they have been talking to him for years? In the same way, what's up with the fetus fingers and the bones getting puked?
In the same way everything about Munesada's grandfather, Hana and the previous generation is a bit of a ???. The whole flashback where he curses her at the end of the common route is totally unexplained. I get the feeling from the fact he came to greet her during the あやとり sequence and her gifting something to his wife made me think there was more going on, like a prequel backstory that never got written into the game. Also I don't think it was ever explained why Asakaura's mother killed herself?
The weird scenes between Souta and Tsukasa also are a bit unexplained I guess. I suppose "possessed" Souta is meant to be Tsukasa with more awareness? Souta acting weird at the beginning of the romance is supposed to because of his connection to him and their personalities mixing?
The novel definitely feels like it should have some "years later epilogue". I heard they actually wrote some booklets with them, but they are impossible to find and quite expensive.... As well it not being a hit I guess the company gave up. Munesada's route and Tsukasa's route at least feels like they really wanted a years later epilogue, since with Shuu and Kyou you feel more like the characters will land on their feet and Shuu has the best epilogue.
Last route CGs where more hideous than usual. The final CG are quite beautiful but it feels like they were trying to break a record with how many flat CG they could put in one route.
Watari vs Oumi... it feels like Watari get all the good stuff. Because their story gets explored twice and Kyou being tied to the main mystery of Tsukasa as well the family drama just being better written. In comparison, a lot of the Oumi feels like it just isn't explored enough.
Overall it's quite a good work, I think it would be decently popular in the west if it ever got translated since it has a bit of everything for everyone and the art-style is quite good.
Overall I'd rank the route in term of quality as Shuu>Kyou>Munesada>Tsukasa though Tsukasa's route isn't bad and arguably better and more important than Munesada and Kyou but I just couldn't jell with it.
Love interest ranking is Munesada>Kyou>Shuu>Tsukasa again.
Munesada has imo the most natural chemistry with him, but it has probably the least development for Souta. Kyou is a good balance and I like how Kyou calls his bullshit and actually forces Souta out of his shell. Shuu does the same too (I guess they are really brothers lol) but I felt like the romance was just too fast with the type of character Shuu was. Kyou gets a puppy crush during the common route and the game acknowledges when he talks about "eternity" he is still very young and doesn't 100% get it, while with Munesada he always held a special affection for Souta since he was his only friend ever, but with Shuu I have hard time believing he'd fall in love with him after kissing him asap.Last modified on 2023-03-29 at 22:47
|#13 by italianlink|
2023-05-17 at 03:04
|< report >Wow, I am SO JEALOUS! Man, I wish I could play for the first time again! I loved reading your write ups, it's so cool to read another person's thoughts!|
I have to admit I don't remember the game well enough to respond in detail (it was years ago when I played), but I *think* I remember feeling a strange and inexplicable mixture of intense grief (which i love) but also underwhelmed...ness. I thought the second feeling was because I felt so emotionally overwhelmed that I had to put the game down for a loong time, and then I eventually picked it up again and finished and was like, fully satisfied, but also wondering why I had been so worked up about it. Maybe it really was underwhelming though and it wasn't just because of my break. I feel like a hypocrite saying that since, like i said, i was satisfied with the ending and it definitely made me cry a lot, hooray, but I guess i still got the sense there was something missing (not in the good, painful way).
I definitely agree about the CGs haha, once again. It is seriously such a bummer how much they can occasionally bring down such an otherwise impressive work.
Have to agree with the Watari win. I absolutely LOVE Kyou's route, just because of him, but also because of the mystery its tied into, which you mentioned. It was devastating. What a meal. As for Shuu, I don't know why, but he wasn't really my type so I didn't like him *as* much as the others, but I remember really appreciating his route regardless. I also just love contrast, so the fear in his route vs the pleasure in mune's route was super satisfying to me. I *think* I remember also feeling that Shuu's romance might have developed a bit fast, but I'm not 100% sure.
I would kill for a fandisk, ngl.
Oh, I also agree that Tsukasa and MC felt too perfect, but I interpreted it as being on purpose--like symbolically he was only ever really a fantasy for everyone, someone whose memory they could use (and abuse) to heal the parts of themselves that felt insecure, incomplete, guilty, empty, etc. But the thing with Souta is he's a penchant for extreme attachment and their relationship, while "prefect" on paper, was extremely codependent. So it felt like it was exploring the dark side of that ideal love of "you complete me". In reality you can't really grow as a person (or even really be a whole person) by attaching yourself to someone as your 'other half'. It just freezes up the parts of you that are supposed to grow and develop and mature, because you always have the other person around to make up for your every weakness. There's nowhere to go from there, so I think the point was that the MC, and all of them, needed to learn to let go of attachments and learn to become whole. Souta was able to learn everything he could from Tsukasa--loving himself, managing grief and becoming a person who can stand on their own two feet--but ending things was a required part of learning. I think that's the significance of the final scene too, where there is that encounter in passing. It's good to know the person you loved so much once, who you thought completed you, who you believed you could never be apart from, is still out there somewhere alive and well, but ultimately they must carry on on their own path and in their own life, as you must too in order not to stagnate...
Idk, sorry this is super messy. I will have to come back another day when I've had coffee (stupidly forgot to drink and it's too late now) so I can form some more complete and coherent thoughts. But anyway, once again I loved reading your observations and analyses. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!!!
(PS. Very inclined to agree with those rankings, but tempted to say Mune and Kyou tie for #1 LI, imo)Last modified on 2023-05-17 at 03:08
|#14 by jinuzuki|
2023-05-18 at 14:55
|< report >It's definitely a fun game to read/write about haha because it's so long and so much happens, also some plot stuff being kinda vague.|
I definitely agree about the fantasy element to Tsukasa's relationships, I think the game is very much aware of Souta's tendency to codependency and basically even goes as far as using Tsukasa to "educate" him and the players. There is also some very horror vibes at the beginning of the route with Souta acting basically possessed due to his desire to melt into one to suggest "something isn't right".
At the core, the game is very much aware it's a fantasy relationship I think, in contrast to the other relationships that, even if the game has "magic" in it, are still very much rooted in real problems the characters can face and overcome themselves. With Tsukasa he's basically getting the same dude he knew 10 years ago so he doesn't have to face all the problems like the passage of time and how it shaped people, it pretty much symbolizes Souta's inability to grow up and let the past go. If Tsukasa had lived he would be like 40 now, and obviously a completely different person. They'd probably connect just fine, but there would be hurdle to overcome due to the passage of time and what that entails.
But all said and done, even if Souta eventually learned to let go, the end just feels like depressing and cruel to me, like the part where Tsukasa's photos even go as far as disappearing (why even anyway? It's not like anyone forgot him so why was reality even altered?) and you can hear Souta's scream of despair is just gut punching. In the end he's more emotionally mature but still he lost yet another person in his life which never sit right for me. Maybe I can hope he'll get with Kyou's in the future in that route lol as people both saved by Tsukasa (I'm a Munesada's fan at the core, but Kyou is like very good for him in general) What I can say, I like sad games but I also like happy endings.
I do think the OG version of the story, with him finding some happiness with Shuu/Kyou/Munesada is equally good and it's not like Souta doesn't grow in those routes (particularly Kyou's route he actually grows a lot and ends up very much emotionally strong at the end I think) Also my favorite scene with Tsukasa is the one at the beach with 一輪の思い so I'm partial. I also thought it was weird he's more close to the group in that route but completely ignorant to some of his friends' problems? It reminds me of child Souta who didn't know the traumas Munesada and Shuu's endured despite being their friend.
I feel like the route is a great grand finale sure but it also feels like it sorta diverges from what the other 3 routes were up to that point.
Have to agree with the Watari win
The story feels very much biased haha. The fact their problems are essentially explored twice compared to Munesada's. I also think the Watari's side characters are just more likeable, you have the mysterious twins, Kyou's cool gay uncle, the very much real drama with Kyou's dad and mom and in Kyou's route you get also Shuu and in Shuu's route you get Kyuo too so it's very lively! In comparison with Munesada you get... Ushio and Natsuki and Taka... that family is so depressing. Also you end the route you feel like Munesada and Shuu are still kinda distant given what Munesada did to Kyou.
I also just love contrast, so the fear in his route vs the pleasure in mune's route was super satisfying to me. I *think* I remember also feeling that Shuu's romance might have developed a bit fast, but I'm not 100% sure.
That one one of the things I like yeah. I thought Shuu didn't feel very much the romantic type, but I really like how both him and Munesada's sorta "loop back" to their experience as children when it came to Souta. I didn't overall even if Shuu wasn't my type of romance I thought the writing in his route all "came together" so to speak and I was pleasantry surprised about how much self aware Shuu was even at times about his flaws and Souta's flaws. So even if he wasn't my favorite or anything I thought his route was the strongest from a writing point of view (I also like it's the route were you get the feeling Kyou will be saved too haha)
Thought it made also feel frustrated a bit, because Shuu and Souta had all the time of the world to explore the relationship during his route while Munesada's basically doesn't get with Souta until like 80% and then the route ends.
I would kill for a fandisk, ngl.
I ended up buying Munesada's extra story (still not arrived sadly U.U) just to have some more content to read. I also finally managed to read Shuu's one because someone shared with it with me. Very cute, given how Souta's centered the story is, it feels very weird to read another character's own thoughts.
The high school fan disks are very cute but very much mindless fanservice I guess (But hey more content and I loooove Munesada's VA and I enjoyed the samey but also different dynamic with the characters and a more pushy Souta lol )
Idk, sorry this is super messy. I will have to come back another day when I've had coffee (stupidly forgot to drink and it's too late now) so I can form some more complete and coherent thoughts. But anyway, once again I loved reading your observations and analyses. Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!!!
No thank you for reading and writing! I'm obsessed with this game haha feel write your thoughts anytime.Last modified on 2023-05-18 at 19:34
|#15 by jinuzuki|
2023-06-01 at 05:56
|< report >I finally had the chance to read Munesada's extra story and wow, I did read some JP posts that said 1) they felt it stuff that was cut from the game 2) It's very important plot wise|
I had the opportunity to read Shuu's one which was pretty interesting because like Munesada, it's very hard to imagine what he's thinking, but I don't think it was particularly life changing in a sense that it doesn't reveal stuff we already didn't know and Shuu's route felt the most complete (thought the insight in his mind was pretty nice!), in contrast Munesada's one and felt a... fandisk tier side story?
You get an insight of his mind starting from his (depressing as usual) childhood, in contrast with Shuu and Kyou the focus is immediately on Souta's from his childhood (make sense since his route is about the romance, much like Tsukasa's one who was also waiting for Souta to come back) and basically made clear he spent his whole life waiting for him to come back, there is a line how once he saw him again as an adult he was all Munesada could think about, but you also get the feeling he doesn't really realize what is he happening and is very... ignorant and almost child like at time? The writing has also a lot of "in hindsight" moments, where future Munesada goes "Yeah, now I understand why I acted like that".
In contrast to Shuu's pov who is always very self aware of both his flaws and what he feels, the part at the Shrine form Munesada's pov feels like he had no idea wtf he was doing, the writing shows he's attracted to him and trying to indulge in that attraction while at the same time he himself had no idea on why he was acting that way. He's very... childlike in a sense, but it does a good job showing how starved for human affection to the point he didn't really understand what it was.
The rest is probably the biggest divergence from the game, basically him showing his mind during the change at the end of the game and him reflecting on it and feeling guilty, in contrast to the game where it's bizarrely not even discussed or addressed. It also uses that time to address some plot points like how the Oumi are gonna continue and how Munesada made so he could leave the island, it definitely feels like the writer realized they messed up or didn't have time to include them in the game. It still chickens out regarding Shuu finding out about the relationship to the point Munesada tells Natsuko he doesn't plan to tell him or Kyou ever (lame) but at least he had him confiding about it to Natsuko which I thought was interesting. Sadly it still doesn't touch Asakura's stuff, which is odd or even the life span thing.
But anyway I found interesting how much the post game story is about his self awareness for his lack of control and guilt over his actions vs the game, to the point he mentions he spent the time apart from Souta refining himself to be perfect and make up for everything he did and even after meeting him again it wasn't all roses and sunshine since he was still feeling guilt about that night and they actually talk about it. It's also very porny, it's basically featured the sex scene from the end of the game but from Munasada's pov and Souta acting more horny with him than a Kyou's sex scene lol
It's definitely a good extra story that rounds the rougher route in the game, I do wonder what Tsukasa's story is about now. It's 25 pages long, so I assume it deals with him in the common route too.Last modified on 2023-06-01 at 10:57
You must be logged in to reply to this thread.