|#1 by xeco|
2018-09-04 at 13:16
|I can see she is tagged as " not virgin" does this mean she had sex with someone else before setsuna? what about "Kuon" ddid she have sex with someone else after Setsuna?|
|#2 by el0d|
2018-09-12 at 15:00
|It's never said directly but...|
The morning after Rinne and Setsuna have sex, Setsuna cuts his finger and says something along the lines of "it's been forever since I last saw blood" but if Rinne was a virgin he should have seen blood the previous night... so that suggests she wasn't a virgin.
As for who Rinne had sex with it's probably either Norimase or his son (sick Setsuna), maybe both even?
|#3 by surferdude|
2018-09-12 at 20:53
|So what's the point of all that looping through time if the reward isn't fresh pussy?|
|#4 by behappyeveryday|
2018-09-13 at 12:39
|@2 This can't prove anything at all. And if you count this as a proof, then you could say what this just foreshadows the fact what originally author assumed what Rinne = RINNE and MC have had sex with her "earlier" in Winter arc . But anyway this comment of MC hardly proves anything and your conclusion is really farfetched. Also from earlier plot you could assume what initially author planned to make Setsuna from past to be same person with Setsuna from now. This is just one of many other plot holes in the game and you could clearly see how incomplete is it.Last modified on 2018-09-13 at 12:42|
|#5 by el0d|
2018-09-13 at 21:35
|@4 Keep in mind this is a written work, one doesn't usually just write things randomly. Talking about blood right after a sex scene... it's more likely to be intentional than a coincidence if you ask me. Still as you say it doesn't really prove anything, it's not really a evidence but more of a hint and there is more hints too. Before Setsuna and Rinne have sex, when Rinne is recounting her memories in the hut with Sick Setsuna she says something like she was shivering in the bed but then sick setsuna came and warmed her up, you probably didn't really think anything of it the first time you've heard it, I know I didn't, cause they were supposed be just kids, but then later you learn they were around 17,19 y.o. at the time, so yeah they probably boned. And then later she slept with protagonist Setsuna at the exact same place too.Last modified on 2018-09-13 at 21:38|
|#6 by noirx|
2018-09-13 at 22:13
|Hypothesis on top of hypothesis over something which won't ever be proven officially since it's a 15+ work XD|
|#7 by behappyeveryday|
2018-09-17 at 03:42
|@5 Mm, considering what there are at least five major plot holes and "True end" don't make any sense in context of the game as whole there A LOT of things which were written randomly (or maybe as I said they were written to foreshadow different plot from which game deviated). For example did you forget about "underwater temple" from Karen route? There is nothing about it in later parts of the game, you know. Also if you read Himawari then you could see what this author tend to ignore obvious plot holes, because "explanation bonus chapter" in Himawari is full of plot holes as well. I could say what he is good at creating characters, making slice of life interaction interesting, creating memorable atmosphere (Winter chapter here and Sunflower station in Himawari) and some emotional moments, but his logic is very flawed as well as scientific knowledge. Or maybe he just wasn't given enough time in both cases and just didn't have enough reasons to "polish" his works.Last modified on 2018-09-17 at 03:47|
|#8 by grelo|
2018-09-17 at 09:01
|#7 Now i know you are a troll. You clearly didn't pay attention or just skimmed through large chunks of the novel. Go read it again then come back.|
|#9 by behappyeveryday|
2018-09-19 at 01:59
|@8 I completed the game more than half year ago, but I remember my thoughts after completing the game, you know? Moreover Japanese players complained a lot about plot holes as well. And don't just start telling me what "underwater temple is actually research facility" type of BS.|
|#10 by klapman|
2018-09-20 at 07:12
|@9 Isn't the underwater temple just the ISLAND? It goes super deep down, after all. Boryujima is one of the entrances to the ISLAND, and it's an upward climb during the ice age. I think they make mention at some point during the true ending of spotting the ISLAND in the ocean, too. I agree that the explanations aren't hugely earthshaking, but they seem to line up.|
|#11 by pendelhaven|
2018-09-20 at 08:43
|^ do you understand how water physics work? if ocean water becomes ice it becomes more dense, meaning the sea level would rise exponentially. meaning boryujima would be even more underwater once the ocean becomes ice.|
as a simple experiment just get a bottle of water and place it in a freezer and after a few hours the bottle would expand (because water expanded) to the point that it will create cracks if its a weak bottle.Last modified on 2018-09-20 at 08:45
|#12 by klapman|
2018-09-20 at 09:31
|so this is how karen feels every day|
|#13 by behappyeveryday|
2018-09-21 at 10:31
|Even if we assume what there is explanation for underwater temple, even if we assume what we don't need explanation for how MC and Karen were saved when they both drowned there is still so much unexplained things that this don't really matters. Who saved Sara's mother? There is nothing about it later in the game. If we believe "true route" then there is no reason why MC would remember Sara and Karen routes, because he wouldn't have any reason to time travel in them and without remembering those routes things wouldn't develop in direction of Rinne's route. Maybe person could ignore all those contradictions in case he read the game slowly by reading it less than 2 hours a day and then forgetting about previous events. But if you play game within 5 days and remember everything what happened then there is too much inconsistent moments.Last modified on 2018-09-21 at 10:32|
|#14 by neokombat|
2018-09-25 at 01:20
|@13 I assume that the reason Setsuna knows stuff about Karen and Sara is because he must have learned about them in a previous loop. The reason for the true route to be locked until you complete their routes is because we are playing a visual novel and we as a player are required to play though them. I believe Setsuna never actually never went though those routes if he goes into the true route. In a way it's our own form of time travel, Where we are allowed to go to any point in the story and proceed from there, but the moment we go back is also where we erase all we've done.|
I think the routes are their to show us that Setsuna can stop and settle down in any period of time but, instead he continues to move forward in time rather then to stop.
|#15 by 5pm|
2018-09-26 at 02:07
|@2 i guess this is the clear answer indeed.|
So, was setsuna got plastic surgery for his face or something along the line as a side effect from his cure?
If it the former, i dont see why he is doing it, as for the latter, he should do the surgery to make his face appear as before so rinne could recognize him preventing her from unneeded despair.Last modified on 2018-09-26 at 02:25
|#16 by hueburst|
2018-09-26 at 18:23
You don't need to "assume" there's an explanation as if we're just purely speculating lmao.
-The underwater temple is explained very blatantly in the True End, when Setsuna and Momoka explored the caves in Boryujima (yes, it's the underground ISLAND featured in the Never Island/Winter arc, this is a very important point since this is what triggers the reveal of the loop, Kuon's true nature and Setsuna's drastic decisions towards the end of the route)
-How Sara and her mother survived is explained in Sara's route during Maria's infodump (she used the "tamatebako" to protect themselves, which is exactly how Setsuna and Sara survived).
-How Karen and Setsuna survived is also explained in Karen's route during their way home from the police station. (Setsuna is the one that saved her, which is one of the pivotal things that launched Karen's affection)
I honestly don't understand how you could possibly miss these things, and I played the game in like 3-4 days. It's not like they were even intended to be mysteries.
The game do have some rough edges in the plot (birthmark inheritance, world looping every 20,000 years, shaky ideas of physics, etc.), but these are none of them.
Setsuna's "Reading Steiner" thingy is a bit of lazy handwave, but it's forgivable for me, since it doesn't really affect the plot that much. Imo, the true end is still achievable without that information, thought it would potentially leave Sara's and Karen's conflicts unresolvedLast modified on 2018-09-26 at 18:35
|#17 by behappyeveryday|
2018-09-27 at 16:28
|@13 He didn't know stuff about Karen and Sara, he have had flashbacks of alternative routes and it could be explained with alternative worlds theory or even with traditional time travelling (if he have had reasons for that), but not with time travel version which was revealed in last end. Your assumption is just your random thoughts, it never was explained in the game - this is a fact. |
@16 Em, are you serious?
1. In the True End it was clearly stated what Island from Winter is Boryujima itself, lol. Nothing was said about anything under station.
2. Of course I know what they used "tamatebaka", but they used it to save Sara and her mother clearly stated what she was saved by "mysterious person" who looked like Setsuna in this same infodump.
3. Of course Karen thought that she was saved by Setsuna, but we as player could see things from his perspective and so we know what he drowned together with her back then.
And you are right, all of those are minor details and I mentioned major plot holes in other thread, I'm too lazy to post it here again.Last modified on 2018-09-27 at 16:29
|#18 by hueburst|
2018-09-27 at 20:32
1. Boryujima is not the ISLAND from the Winter arc, that makes absolutely no sense, I really don't understand how you come to that conclusion or how it's even "clearly stated".
What connected Boryujima and the ISLAND is the cave. The cave on Boryujima is the entrance that leads to the ruins of the ISLAND deep underwater, or what Momoka calls "Ryugujo". In other words it was once Rinné's workshop. That's why Rinné can access the outside world through her workshop. So, neither the cave NOR Boryujima is the actual ISLAND.
Quotes from the game:
2. She wasn't saved by any mysterious person, you're mistaking her prank when Setsuna first woke up as being the real story. Also before you ask, the "old sage" she's referring to is the corpse inside the tamatebako. Maria threw it out before entering it with Sara, that's why the islanders found 2 skeletons in the ruins.
Quotes from the game:
3. You keep using the word "drown", do you really know what it means? Just do one quick google search please.
Anyways, there were nothing in the text that implies Setsuna was drowning. You probably only felt like that because they cut right after Setsuna dived into the water and didn't show exactly what happened.
Of course Karen thought that she was saved by SetsunaKaren didn't just "think" Setsuna rescued her, Karen distinctly remembered it, which is then quickly corroborated by Setsuna's memory of the incident as he started to recall what happens.
And we know they can be trusted as reliable narrators for that event because they also consistently and accurately recalled seeing the "Ryugujo" together underwater, during the incident. Which is of course, fully confirmed by Momoka later on.
but we as player could see things from his perspective and so we know what he drowned together with her back thenThis is incorrect, all what we can see from his perspective of the incident is that he dived underwater in order to rescue Karen, witnessed "Ryugujo", and woke up at the shore.
Quotes from the game:
Honestly, I still can't believe you missed these blatant stuff. Just how did you read this? Did you just hold the ctrl button all the way through?Last modified on 2018-09-27 at 20:58
|#19 by behappyeveryday|
2018-09-30 at 16:43
|@18 I have read the game half year ago, obviously in Japanese, so I could forget some points. But based on your quotes this isn't case here. |
1. Isn't those quotes prove what I said? Ruins sleep around the island, directly said. ISLAND is under and around Boryujima which is above it, this is also why its drifting.
2. I remember this place and there is no contradiction, as I already said it is obvious what they used tamatebaka, this is "how" they were saved, there is no contradiction with that you call a "prank" because she was told about this method by mysterious person.
3. You'd prefer me to say "on the verge of drowning"? There is no big difference here, though I could be wrong because I'm not a native English speaker. Anyway Setsuna lost his consciousness while being underwater after he seen the temple. Also your quotes prove nothing, there is no so called "he recall how he saved her", only thing he recall is how they hold hands when they already returned to the beach. We see things from Setsuna's perspective and only thing we could see there is how he lost consciousness after seeing the temple and then wake up together with Karen already saved, it is unknown what happens in between because both of them lost consciousness while being underwater.Last modified on 2018-09-30 at 16:46
|#20 by hueburst|
2018-09-30 at 22:58
1. I genuinely don't know what you mean by "ruins sleep around the island". Sorry, but I really couldn't make any sense of that.
ISLAND is under and around Boryujima which is above itYes, that's my point, Boryujima isn't ISLAND, the underwater "temple" residing on the ocean floor below Boryujima is the ISLAND. I don't know what you mean by "drifting" either, the game did not mention anything about Boryujima shifting location. Though I suppose that it could happen in the timespan of 20,000 years.
2. I don't know what further explanation could you need. She simply went inside the tamatebako with Sara to protect themselves from the fire, I don't know why she'd need this wisdom to be imparted to her by someone else. It's just survival instincts. There's nothing in the game mentioning that as far as I know, can you give me a quote?
3. Setsuna did not lose consciousness when he dived underwater, nothing in the game implies anything like that. Just because the game is not showing a certain scene, does not mean that the Protagonist lost consciousness during that certain scene.
This is the most likely order of events that happened:
-Setsuna dived and grabbed Karen's hands (shown in the game)
-Setsuna witnessed "Ryugujo" together with Karen (not shown in the game)
-Setsuna swam back to the shore with all his might. There, he passed out from exhaustion. (not shown in the game)
-During the time when he passed out, he dreamt and recalled about the "Ryugujo" he witnessed previously (shown in the game)
-He woke up with a slightly hazy memory (shown in the game)
To re-iterate, there's nothing in the game that implies Setsuna lost consciousness when he dived into the water.Last modified on 2018-09-30 at 23:00
|#21 by narcosis|
2018-10-01 at 08:18
|To keep things short: neither of them are.|
|#22 by nier12|
2018-10-01 at 19:36
|Well about rinne (the daughter) there are some clue that she is not but it's not really an established fact right?|
|#23 by narcosis|
2018-10-01 at 23:39
|@22 Rinne actually did it twice. |
First time with Setsuna Ohara at that tiny sea hut near the shore, where he lived.
She does it again at the same exact place and same circumstances later on with Setsuna Sanzenkai, our protagonist.
Whether it was sentiment, budding love or desperate attempt to fill in the emptiness in her soul is up for you to decide.
There's more than enough evidence afterwards in form of subtle hints that aim it did indeed happen and they'd both prefer to keep it a secret.
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