|#1 by shad905|
2018-09-30 at 14:32
|I can't help but feel, that that was the worst true ending I've ever seen ! Like, WTH, so in the end Serika and Takuru ended up alone...|
This true ending ruined the whole VN for me and to think at the beginning I ranked it as high as 9/10 right up until Kazuki route and its bullcrap with dragons, portals etc, which didn't fit in at all. And the VN was down to 7/10. But the worst part is that true route's truth about Chaos Child Syndrome and the ending. Like, OMG, what a way to end it. I believe there are millions of ways to end it so that Serika and Takuru be together at the end and fight the Commitee together etc, but no...
It's 4/10 with bullshit true ending like that
This is all IMO, and my raw emotions right after finishing the VN.
With that said I'd be glad to see what you guys think of the true ending, - perhaps there are some aspects I missed? Perhaps you realy liked this true ending? Would be glad to know your opinions
|#2 by bruxae|
2018-11-04 at 02:11
|I would be lying if I said I wasn't hoping for a happy ending, but at the same time I think it's often the bad ones that are memorable. I didn't think it was a bad ending, I think if every ending is happy they'd loose their meaning.|
I'm just grateful things turned out alright for Serika which is what I was desperately hoping for all game.
|#3 by being|
2018-11-20 at 08:23
|MUH WISH FULFILLMENTLast modified on 2018-11-20 at 08:23|
|#4 by mobotium|
2018-11-26 at 02:39
|I felt the true end made perfect sense in regards to the themes built up through the rest of the novel. |
In the end, Takuru keeps his promise to make Serika into a normal girl, even if she is implied to having gotten her memories back at the end. In separating they become more than two sides of the same coin, they evolve into separate people, who would live separate lives and be able to acheive new height by njot being bound to eachother. The reasons for this are well explained in the vn so ultimatly it comes down to wherever you can accept them. I found the ending bittersweet but really well written and, honestly, beautiful.
The syndrome did seem like a wierd, almost random inclusion to the story, expecially since it only took real relevance during the true end. However, there even ignoring the most obvious pieces of foreshadowing in the later chapters of the common route, there is a ton of small details spread through the story that make a lot more sense with the syndrome existing. It ends up being a interesting plot point as it puts the events of the previous routes into another perspective.
Speaking of previous routes, I originally felt the same from Kazuki's route. I was honestly disapointed that the plot detoured from a mostly logical path into into a bunch of randomness with the dragons, etc. The story was still interesting but it was based on alot of conviniences and plot holes, like a giant sumo man being created by chance and Kasuki conveniently being able to control it.
However, after the true end you are given the information you need to connect the dots on the whole story. If you do this, you'll realize that not only is the bullshitry possible, it was actually a reasonable thing to occur. In fact, that they did occur is meant to pose a question: Why and how did this happen?
|#5 by cozkumin|
2018-12-19 at 21:24
|>I believe there are millions of ways to end it so that Serika and Takuru be together at the end and fight the Commitee together etc, but no...|
Frankly, that sort of naive view is the entirety of what the true ending was warning against. Aside from the fact that one of the two of them was bound for jail (what were they gonna do? frame someone?), the entire point of Serika's character is that she is a reflection of Takuru's self as a child. Her entire being reflected his worldview as a lonely, broken child, where his narcissism was the only thing keeping him going. He literally created a person to reaffirm his love for himself, which he himself came to love. But since she, too, is really just a part of him, his love for her was also part of his love for himself. The decision to part was not one made upon a whim, but Takuru truly believed it was best for the two of them, because as long as Takuru held onto his child self, he'd never become an adult.
That's what the whole ending is about, and by extension, the entire game. Nobody is free of taking responsibility for their past. Those who try to are simply running away irresponsibly like a child. Takuru may have not committed the act of murder himself, but only because he pushed that desire off onto Serika. She became the outlet for all his negative desires and emotions, and because he ignored them instead of facing them, they culminated in the form of the New Generation Madness. That's why he feels responsible for everything that happens.
As for why Takuru chose to put himself in jail instead of letting Serika take the fall, it's because he feels responsible for corrupting her into what she became. He, who is ridden with guilt, thinks that there is no way, in good conscious, he could ever return to the world and live a normal life. Setting aside the fact that his name was known publicly due to being pursued by the police, while Serika's wasn't, he was in a position where life would never be the same, unless he could forget. And, given the choice to make Serika forget or to forget everything himself, he chose Serika. I think it's only natural that he would.
The Chaos Child Syndrome itself is really more symbolic than anything, as all those who contracted it were the ones who chose to run away from what they saw during the earthquake, to decide "this isn't happening" and instead change their world to compensate. It seems so out of left-field specifically *because* it was a truth that the characters averted their eyes from the whole time. If you reread the game though, you'll see that there was foreshadowing all over the place. It was just out of sight, only obvious to those who already know the truth.
For example, Takuru talks near the start about how, surprisingly, there was nearly no crime in the aftermath of the earthquake, and everyone supported each other. This is obviously not true, judging by the chaos in the earthquake flashbacks. The combined force of every syndrome patient could not deny the earthquake itself, as it was too large and influential an event to simply ignore, but the horrible experiences each of them faced afterward was something they succeeded in running away from. So all that stuff about "there was little to no crime" was fabricated by the Syndrome.
It's clear that Chaos;Child's ending is not exactly the happiest ending out there. But I don't think that's a problem. C;C as a whole is an allegory for growing up, so an ending like this, which requires facing reality to appreciate it, fits the tone and themes of the story perfectly. Chaos;Child's entire message is that, although it may be difficult to accept, there is no real choice but to accept reality, and all those childish "they all lived happily ever after" endings are simply incompatible with real life.
To believe that the quality of the work is somehow lessened by forcing the reader to face some unpleasant emotions—even though this is something we must do to function in reality—shows a very obvious misunderstanding of the message behind the story.Last modified on 2018-12-19 at 22:20
|#6 by behappyeveryday|
2019-01-02 at 18:50
|@shad905 I disagree about Kazuki's rouse (it was interesting and unique), but I totally with you about being disappointed by true end. |
First of all it is strange to make Common route into actual True route and then forcing player to complete all heroines only to see Epilogue to Common route instead of proper True Route. True Route is when you do things completely different and open up new truth while reaching better End than the others.
I wanted to see True Route in which protag truly understand Serika and maybe romance her and treat with love. In Common route he treated her like shit and was unaware about hidden truth until the end. If he learned about truth earlier - before his sister was killed, things could be different. But alas.
@5 There a lot of people who happily live their life until they become old together, what is "incompatible with real life"? It is the same as saying "becoming rich is incompatible with real life". Just to find one girl who will love you and make family with her isn't something unachievable.
|#7 by cozkumin|
2019-01-08 at 17:06
But the issue is that Takuru and Serika *aren't* right for each other. That's the entire point of the ending, and of their character arc. They're the same person, so Takuru's love for Serika is his love for himself—his arrogance. Which he decides at the end that he's better without.
You could also connect it to the idealist waifu culture on the internet. (Chaos Child Syndrome in itself is a clear allegory for the internet, an interconnected network of lies that our youth relies on but mostly harms them in the long run.) Serika was created specifically to be the "ideal" girl for young Takuru, so her love for him is not something that happened naturally. It was forced on her by Takuru's imagination.
Takuru decides at the end that the best option for her is to be normal, so she can live her life as she wants, and not according to his demanding and controlling subconscious. Serika can find love and be happy on her own now, which is exactly what Takuru wants. Maybe they could have shown that happening, but it's not like Takuru would know either way. The point is, though, that she's free now, which, so far as Takuru is concerned, is the only way she can be happy.
And in the end, Serika, whether or not she fully remembered everything that happened, decides of her own free will to accept his wishes. She knew that this was for the best, after all.
True love absolutely can happen in real life. There's plenty of romance in other SciADV titles, so it's clear that the authors of C;C never meant to imply that romance itself is idealism. But not everyone is right for each other, and Takuru and Serika's love was unhealthy for both of them.
>True Route is when you do things completely different and open up new truth while reaching better End than the others.
But that assumes there is a better end to be had.
I could understand, maybe, wishing that more of Common Route's ending had been saved for the True End. If Common Route instead ended with a cliffhanger or worse bad end, and then resolved that with the True End, they could have put a bit more weight on the True End. That's a valid suggestion, and I think I agree with you. (Though, that would require some other parts be rewritten, since the final major reveal, of Serika's true purpose, is major to the plots of the other routes.)
But the idea that the True End should have been happy just because it's a True Ending makes it seem like you're saying all visual novels *need* to have a happy ending.
C;C was never meant to have one. It was never going to end any better way.Last modified on 2019-01-08 at 17:11
|#8 by behappyeveryday|
2019-01-08 at 19:05
|@7 You here just doing your own subjective interpretations based on what YOU think author wanted to tell. We don't know how accurate your assumptions, but we could be sure what they are only this - assumptions. Serika was real-booted as real person, so I don't think what you could consider her as part of Takuru any more. You have full right to have your own interpretation, but don't take it for absolute truth. |
As about true route - I don't even talk about "happy end" (thought it would be fine too, considering what some other endings were close to it), I rather feel what relationships between Serika and MC were undeveloped, even if compared to other heroines in their specific routes.
And yes, I think what game could be a little better if current Common route was considered as True and for actual Common we did have something else. Even just changing route's order (heroines=>common) would be fine - at least there would be some "multiple routes mystery" in this case. Instead what we have is True route => Heroines routes (which are mostly unrelated) => Epilogue for True route with alternative ending.
Also you forgot what there was first Ending which I actually liked better than true end - and it ended "better way", at least I personally think so.Last modified on 2019-01-08 at 19:07
|#9 by cozkumin|
2019-01-09 at 23:51
|>You here just doing your own subjective interpretations based on what YOU think author wanted to tell. We don't know how accurate your assumptions, but we could be sure what they are only this - assumptions. |
If these are only "assumptions," so is every conclusion ever drawn in every literary analysis ever written.
Do you disagree with the very concept of analyzing literature?
Or are you not looking at Chaos;Child as a work of literature? If not, we're not even on the same page here.
At any rate, I'll try to reaffirm my argument using only direct proof and no """assumptions.""" Here goes...
>Serika was real-booted as real person, so I don't think what you could consider her as part of Takuru any more. You have full right to have your own interpretation, but don't take it for absolute truth.
Okay, so you took what I said literally. Great.
Ignoring the fact that she's not *literally* a part of him though, she was still subject to his will. She still did all the things that young Takuru created her to do and listened to the whims of Takuru's immature side, ignoring his reasonable side which cared for his family (hence why she killed Yui and tried to kill Nono—she's not used to Takuru caring for family, since he was raised in an abusive family), and never ever wavering from her purpose. Whether or not she was literally a part of Takuru, she hadn't changed a bit since the day she was created.
Even if she's not literally "him," again, she represents and encourages a side of Takuru he knows he's better without, and his influence on her (the "purpose" he gave her) is only harmful to her. They bring out the worst in each other. Takuru says it himself.
“Together, nothing would change. Apart, both she and I would stop making mistakes.”
“Otherwise, we’d do it again.”
And it's still impossible to contradict the fact that, after Serika was made normal, she chose to honor Takuru's wishes.
Everything was for the best.
There are always going to be painful things in life. But just because it's difficult to face them doesn't make a story "bad" for touching upon them. How on earth does that make any sense?
An indication of any good story is that it makes the reader feel the way the author intended—so if anything, if a story about painful emotions was able to make you feel pained, that means it succeeded in doing what it set out to do.
If Chaos;Child were trying to yet another wish fulfillment visual novel, then it would have failed at its job miserably. But that's clearly not what it was trying to be. It was trying to be a work of literature with meaning behind it. Even if you disagree with my specific interpretation, there's no denying that everything in C;C was written the way it was for a reason.
>Also you forgot what there was first Ending which I actually liked better than true end - and it ended "better way", at least I personally think so.
Again, though, that ending where they escape together is not healthy for either of them. Because together, they'd "do it again." In the Common Route ending, after all, Takuru fails to make Serika normal. I mean, they literally kill some guards on the way out.
“Breaking news. As of 9:00 AM this morning, the killer behind the Return of the New Generation Madness murders, Takuru Miyashiro, disappeared from a prison hospital.”
“The bodies of several guards were found, evidently killed in a struggle...”
Are you really going to say, after everything that happened and all the suffering caused before, that the best ending is the one where the killings start up again? Where the characters run away instead of growing up, when growing up and moving on is the biggest theme in the whole game?
(There's also the fact that, since the syndrome isn't cured in Common Route, it likely will end up killing Takuru and every other victim of it eventually—I'd explain why, but it's spoilers for something else.)
By the by, if you have any doubts regarding whether "growing up and moving on" actually *is* one of the themes in this game, then consider the following:
Senri faces an identity crisis perpetuated by habitual lying and caused by a childish fear of being hated.
Uki forces herself, literally, to remain a child at the wishes of those around her.
Hana is faced with a fear of speaking out due to a traumatizing experience caused by speaking in the past.
Hinae is haunted by guilt from an event long-past which she was never able to move on from.
Tinged with sci-fi though they may be, these are all real issues that children face.
And in general, the entire reason Chaos Child Syndrome was formed was a collective desire to run away from reality, freezing them in their childlike state. Thereby, never growing up and moving on. It's literally called "Chaos 'Child' Syndrome."
To grow up and move on is something they all need to do. And with the end of the Syndrome, they are finally able to.
You can disagree with the idea that "growing up is for the best," and I'll go ahead and respect that, but I really don't get how you could argue that "growing up isn't a theme of this novel." When nearly every element of a story touches on a certain topic, that's called a theme, not a coincidence.
But let's suppose for a moment that it *is* all a coincidence. I'm not perfect, I could be wrong. But if these aren't the themes, what are they? You must have your own ideas, right? I mean, after all, the story was written the way it was for a reason, right?
If you really think there was no particular reasoning behind it, and that the game *doesn't* have any themes, then again, you and I clearly have completely different views of this VN. Because I'm treating it like a work of literature, which you seem intent on not doing.
(That, of course, is just the impression I get. Of course, if you'd like to prove me wrong, go right ahead and explain your perceived reasoning behind why C;C was written the way it was.)
Oh, and P.S.:
>Even just changing route's order (heroines=>common) would be fine - at least there would be some "multiple routes mystery" in this case.
There actually is a "multiple routes mystery," so to speak, but I know that if I tried to point it out to you, you'd tell me that it's "assumptions," so I won't bother unless you ask for it.Last modified on 2019-01-10 at 00:12
|#10 by shad905|
2019-03-01 at 10:49
|Quite a debate happened here while I wasn't checking the thread.|
I have read everything from the top to the bottom and I must say that thanks to cozkumin I can see now that there was no better way to end the story. Thank you for clear explanation of what happened at the end there ! Very appriciated!
This is indeed a bittersweet , but perfect ending for the story.
However I still dislike Kazuki's route to the core - it's ridiculous and I will not change my opinion on that
With everything said I realize that 4/10 is unforgivably low score for this novel. Since now the true ending makes perfect sense to me as well as Chaos Child Syndrome I must revote this
In the end I was right to post this question. Thank you, cozkumin, again for clearing things up and thank you, everyone else for all your opinions on this
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