Some plot holes. (spoilers)

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#1 by behappyeveryday
2019-01-02 at 19:27
Some of those plot holes minor and some of them could be considered as important. Though I'm not sure if I missed something because game relatively long and translation isn't perfect as well.

1. In the beginning it is stated what "event what would change the entire World started from Shibuya". But there is nothing like that happened in the end other than one specific heroine route.

2. Video of the third murder what was done from perspective of sumo-sticker. Never explained.

3. Mysterious knocking. Never was explained.

4. Creepy messages "whose eyes are those eyes" and "those eyes are god eyes". Never explained.

5. It is Uki and old woman duo who were supposed to create sumo-stickers. But in fifth chapter, already after Uki was saved and old woman disappeared, MC and Hinae were guided by newly appeared "true" sumo-stickers to encounter pyromaniac.

6. In the beginning Hinae trying to find info about death of her brother - but in her own route it is revealed what she already know everything about it. After reading her route it doesn't make any sense why she was involved in this case in the first place and what she tried to achieve by cooperating with third victim.

7. It seems strange to me what in Hinae's route there is this girl from Hekiho who become part of "bad company" and supposedly slept around with men, she have syndrome after all... On the other hand it kind of make sense why Hinae's mother killed wrong person, so I'm not sure about this one.

8. It is Sakuma who have mind control power, but Itou's "last words" hinted what it was Serika who made him kill Yui which doesn't make sense. Overall this mind control power wasn't properly explained and also why Serika should be present on crime scenes at all? I assume what initially author wanted to make her into main culprit, but then changed his mind.

Did anyone noticed any other plot holes or have decent explanation for any of those? Specially most important ones like 2, 5 and 6.
#2 by xraider
2019-01-02 at 21:17
5 and 8 makes me think you did not finish the story. Did you read everything, including the true end ?

As for what i recall (it's been months)

1 and 4 - references to chaos head, the prequel. It's not exactly required to have read it, but Chaos child is kinda barebones on the committee stuff and gigalomaniacs, so you miss out on some stuff in that departament and on all the refererences, such as those creepy messages.
3. No idea. Personal theory is that this is simply there for the extra creepyness factor. IMO it works
6. Don't recall and honestly, i'm not even sure her brother was even relevant until her route. She's on the case because she wants a friend and there's some security. After all, she did get almost killed in the hotel
7. I legit do not recall this at all.
#3 by behappyeveryday
2019-01-04 at 06:39
@2 I have read original Chaos Head long time ago, so what if that references? I can't remember any of this explained in there either.

I read all the game obviously. IDK why you bring true end here because it doesn't cancel Common route, true end is basically epilogue to it.

I wish you are not actually trying to say here what you think it was Takuru what become crazy and killed everyone or it was Wakui behind everything because it would mean what you read it completely wrong. There never were any hints to anyone other than Uki being able to create sumo-stickers. And it is pretty much a fact what killing was done by Sakuma and his ability, while Serika only was needed to find right victims.Last modified on 2019-01-04 at 06:47
#4 by jikorde
2019-01-04 at 07:49
For 5, I'm pretty sure anyone could create the proper sumo stickers after they made the initial ones, after all they aren't magical by themselves. They are just an image that triggers psychics. The whole thing with Uki was they needed the image and no one had a proper one to copy, so they needed someone who knew how to make one and Uki's power let them get that via the old women. Remember, Sakuma did not have proper backing for his plan.

Hinae is weird. If I remember right, her intial interest in the case was her (only real) friend died, her brother had nothing to do with it. The one guy who never lied to her died and she wanted to know why. Her brother, if I remember right, is never brought up until her route and then you learn what triggered her power and such.

My best guess on 2 is that Sumika did something to get the shot from that angle to lead Takuru to the stickers, and there was nothing magical or occult about that. As to how no one found the camera, we have a mind controller and Takuru was definitely under his power (same thing with the knocking, it was just a thing the villain did) so there was plenty of time to manipulate the scene.

7. You think there wouldn't be crazy people who would want to sleep with Chaos Syndrome Patients? And the bad company might have been other victims who just didn't attend school. There's a couple of plausible reasons.

8. Sakuma can make anything happen with his power. Serika wanted to be the villain, so she had Sakuma make her the villain. They couldn't let Takuru know about Sakuma at that point so Sakuma used Serika's voice and image to control Itou.

All of this was conjecture but I think it fits.Last modified on 2019-01-04 at 07:52
#5 by behappyeveryday
2019-01-06 at 13:08
@4 Thanks for you answer, some things you say make sense. Though I now remember more inconsistencies thanks to that too, lol.

This whole thing with Uki creating stickers is a strange one - because they should affect her as well. Also there is another point - stickers what Watabe eat were fake stickers so MC assumed what killer is gigalomaniac, if it was Sakuma who was the killer then it doesn't make sense. Actually, considering how eye catching his device was him being real killer doesn't make a lot of sense.

First of all Hinae mentioned what this brother's friend helped her to get to some sort of "truth" and it was somehow involved with this corporation which controlled cameras in the city. Also her behaviour in the beginning when she was in police station doesn't make much sense considering her backstory which we learn in her route.

As about camera and the sticker - we learn about the sticker at the scene from video, so this assumption couldn't be right and overall it is very far fetched.

As about 7 point - other than that there is other things what seems strange to me. In true end it is clearly stated what all victims in the return of NGM were people with Chaos Child syndrome, but 3 out of 4 first victims were popular media people. It doesn't make much sense what Watabe could become so popular while being CC. And don't forget what third victim actually was very successful sales person, I think what ordinary people would be freaked out by his looks and his mind reading doesn't help much, lol.

Your conjecture about 8 also don't fit well. First of all Serika never planned to be caught, at least not so fast - she even killed Nono to avoid it. Also if she really wanted to play a villain then why would she tell what it was Sakuma behind everything soon after she was "caught"?

Actually it could make more sense to me if Sakuma was just "fake villain" mind-controlled by either Serika or Wakui, but again there not enough hints to assume this, moreover Shinjou found out actual proofs of Sakuma being "mad scientist" who researched gigalomaniacs in the past.Last modified on 2019-01-06 at 13:15
#6 by mobotium
2019-01-08 at 14:36
"This whole thing with Uki creating stickers is a strange one - because they should affect her as well. Also there is another point - stickers what Watabe eat were fake stickers so MC assumed what killer is gigalomaniac, if it was Sakuma who was the killer then it doesn't make sense. Actually, considering how eye catching his device was him being real killer doesn't make a lot of sense."

Uki just real-boots other people's delusions, she never actually sees the stickers during the process.

The stickers on Watabe being fake is to lead people into thinking the killer is a Psychic.

Sakuma has no problem moving around with that device, as for why read Chaos;Head.

"First of all Hinae mentioned what this brother's friend helped her to get to some sort of "truth" and it was somehow involved with this corporation which controlled cameras in the city. Also her behaviour in the beginning when she was in police station doesn't make much sense considering her backstory which we learn in her route. "

Not sure what you mean by this exactly. If you mean her lack of responsiveness she literally had just had a friend/acquaintance killed very close to her, I think it's understandable.

"As about camera and the sticker - we learn about the sticker at the scene from video, so this assumption couldn't be right and overall it is very far fetched. "

The whole video is not explicitly explained. However, recall the reporter's psychic power and the fact that he was already under mind control prior to his death. He could have been made to create the video.

Also, that video was not how they found out about the stickers, you are confusing it with Takuru's own video taken at the hotel.

"As about 7 point - other than that there is other things what seems strange to me. In true end it is clearly stated what all victims in the return of NGM were people with Chaos Child syndrome, but 3 out of 4 first victims were popular media people. It doesn't make much sense what Watabe could become so popular while being CC. And don't forget what third victim actually was very successful sales person, I think what ordinary people would be freaked out by his looks and his mind reading doesn't help much, lol. "

Consider this: A talented streamer/media person who looks like a old guy but is actually sick with a very unusual and famous disease that makes him totally unaware of that very fact. I don't watch the news at all but even I would be somewhat interested in this one-of-a-kind newscaster. As for the sales person, they probably could not keep from hiring him because of non-discrimination laws and due to his mind reading he was unusually efficient. No reason for him not to be successful.

As for you last question, Serika is the main culprit, no doubt about it. Or rather, she planned out the string of murders and manipulation while Sakuma worked out the details of the killings and committed the murders themselves. The Itou scene was always meant to be revealed and it was meant to imply the existence of two killers, one of which was in the club. Presumably, the only thing that did not go according to Serika's plan was Nono finding her out.

The reason Serika pinned the villain role on Sakuma was by his own wishes, since he wanted a confrontation with Takuru, and so she would have the freedom to setup the finale once the two beat each other to half dead.

I think I got most of the things you where asking, do tell if I missed something.Last modified on 2019-01-08 at 14:37
#7 by behappyeveryday
2019-01-08 at 19:37
@6 "Uki just real-boots other people's delusions, she never actually sees the stickers during the process."
In her route we could see what she actually takes part in real-booted delusions, at least she should see what she creates. Your explanation could fit, but it doesn't feel consistent. Also maybe you remember illusion seen by Takuru when he first sneaked in hospital - it doesn't make much sense too and explanation "this is just delusion" doesn't explain why he seen Uki because he never met her before.

"The stickers on Watabe being fake is to lead people into thinking the killer is a Psychic."
It was obvious what killer is a psychic because of how killing was done, there is no point in trying to give more hints. After all no one knew what there could be device what could imitate psychic abilities. Also - even if Sakuma was gigalomaniac it shouldn't stop him from making someone mind controlled to eat stickers, after all he wouldn't see them himself.

"Not sure what you mean by this exactly. If you mean her lack of responsiveness she literally had just had a friend/acquaintance killed very close to her, I think it's understandable."
No, it isn't understandable what she don't help police to caught someone who killed her friend. She just ignored police before "secret phrase" was said to her. Also it was obvious what she already knew something about killings and researched them to some extent - remember how she warned Takuru.

"The whole video is not explicitly explained. However, recall the reporter's psychic power and the fact that he was already under mind control prior to his death. He could have been made to create the video."

Reporter's ability was psychophotography, from what we know he could only take pictures, so this explanation is too far-fetched at best. First of all - why would this detail was completely forgotten for the rest of the story? Same with all this foreshadowing about stickers, worldwide changes, etc.

"Also, that video was not how they found out about the stickers, you are confusing it with Takuru's own video taken at the hotel."

I talked about Takuru's own video. The point I made - video Takuru took (from which they found out about stickers) was done at the same with time video which was downloaded on the net. It means there couldn't be camera out there in place of the sticker.

"Consider this: A talented streamer/media person who looks like a old guy but is actually sick with a very unusual and famous disease that makes him totally unaware of that very fact. I don't watch the news at all but even I would be somewhat interested in this one-of-a-kind newscaster. As for the sales person, they probably could not keep from hiring him because of non-discrimination laws and due to his mind reading he was unusually efficient. No reason for him not to be successful."

That is just rationalisation. I don't tell what all of this is impossible, it just seems strange and out of place what their syndrome didn't affect anything and didn't have any consequences. There were zero hints what victims could be somehow abnormal. BTW same goes for school festival in Hekihou. Though of course maybe all of this is just bad writing - when author bring up big plot twists without ANY foreshadowing which could and should be there.

Considering what people with CC think they just have PTSD then their brain shouldn't ignore the fact what all victims were with CCS which should be mentioned online because it is very obvious for everyone without syndrome. So Takuru and friends at least should learn what all victims were "Chaos Children" like people from Hekihou.

"As for you last question, Serika is the main culprit, no doubt about it. Or rather, she planned out the string of murders and manipulation while Sakuma worked out the details of the killings and committed the murders themselves. The Itou scene was always meant to be revealed and it was meant to imply the existence of two killers, one of which was in the club. Presumably, the only thing that did not go according to Serika's plan was Nono finding her out."

How I understand this - Sakuma wanted to "clean" gigalomaniacs and he would do it anyway, but with Serika's help it could be easier so they got a deal - she would help him and he will do it in her way. It isn't clear if he forced her or not, considering what her actual motivation wasn't protecting Takuru she could help on her own volition. But relationships between Sakuma and Serika are left unknown to us as well, we never learn what actually happened between them in the past.Last modified on 2019-01-08 at 19:46
#8 by mobotium
2019-01-09 at 19:49
> Also maybe you remember illusion seen by Takuru when he first sneaked in hospital - it doesn't make much sense too and explanation "this is just delusion" doesn't explain why he seen Uki because he never met her before.


Two possibilities come to mind here. The first is it being his own delusion, as he had already seen Uki at this point in the photographs in the club room. The other is it being Serika's doing, as she was with him.

I don't understand Uki's power well enough to argue your other point.


>It was obvious what killer is a psychic because of how killing was done, there is no point in trying to give more hints. After all no one knew what there could be device what could imitate psychic abilities. Also - even if Sakuma was gigalomaniac it shouldn't stop him from making someone mind controlled to eat stickers, after all he wouldn't see them himself.


That's the whole point. The stickers being fake is consistent with the whole "the killer is a psychic" narrative. If they were true stickers it could have cast doubt on this point, or at least lead people to believe there was a normal person assisting with the killings. I don't see any way this could have benefitted the plan.


>No, it isn't understandable what she don't help police to caught someone who killed her friend. She just ignored police before "secret phrase" was said to her. Also it was obvious what she already knew something about killings and researched them to some extent - remember how she warned Takuru.


She did not help the police because she 1: did not trust them to be able to catch the killer, 2: did not want to reveal herself as a psychic and 3: she did not really care. Yes, she later "warned" Takuru, but she never really cared about him or the others until much later in the story. In fact, she had opportunities to reveal she knew Takuru was a psychic to the detective and Mio, but chose not to, even saying that whatever happened it was not her problem at some point.


>Reporter's ability was psycho photography, from what we know he could only take pictures, so this explanation is too far-fetched at best. First of all - why would this detail was completely forgotten for the rest of the story? Same with all this foreshadowing about stickers, worldwide changes, etc.


Videos are literally just a bunch of photographs. The detail was forgotten because the video was impossible to trace and they had bigger things to worry about. The stickers were foreshadowed and they came to fruition, as their main role was to expand interest in the cases by the general populace. The "worldwide changes" refers to C;C syndrome, as it's cure came as a direct consequence of the cases, and to the failure of the committee's experiments.


>I talked about Takuru's own video. The point I made - video Takuru took (from which they found out about stickers) was done at the same with time video which was downloaded on the net. It means there couldn't be camera out there in place of the sticker.


There's no reason to believe this. Even if there was a camera it could have been placed and removed before the police even arrived at the crime scene.


>That is just rationalisation. I don't tell what all of this is impossible, it just seems strange and out of place what their syndrome didn't affect anything and didn't have any consequences. There were zero hints what victims could be somehow abnormal. BTW same goes for school festival in Hekihou. Though of course maybe all of this is just bad writing - when author bring up big plot twists without ANY foreshadowing which could and should be there.

> Considering what people with CC think they just have PTSD then their brain shouldn't ignore the fact what all victims were with CCS which should be mentioned online because it is very obvious for everyone without syndrome. So Takuru and friends at least should learn what all victims were "Chaos Children" like people from Hekihou.


List of foreshadowing for the C;C Syndrome reveal:

-The police had difficulty determining Hinae's age when she was taken in (since all patients look like old people)

-After running away from Riko Haida, Takuru said he didn't realize he was so out of shape

-In Hinae route, Hinae's mom killed the wrong girl, supposedly because he confused her with another CS patient

-Mio treated Serika nicely, as opposite of the CS patients

-The waitress said Takuru did well despite having a dumb face

-The waitress didn't like too much attending Takuru's group because of their condition

-A gang of guys beat up Takuru's ass and called him wrinkly

-The Takuru impersonator at the end of the common route who to normal people did not look like Takuru since he was not a patient

-Watabe being confused at the attention Hekiho Academy's festival was getting despite it only being a normal high school

-Most of the videos shown during the game are tagged with "C;C Syndrome", despite there being no mention of the syndrome or ptsd on them which implies the syndrome is easier to recognise and related to the people depicted

-Hekihou Academy has lots of railings, given the out of shape bodies of the patients

-Mio being strong doesn't make sense until you realize Takuru CS body shape

-When Takuru visits Serika's apartment at the end of common route, the detective shows up but takes a long time to recognize him, because patients all looked like old people and were harder to recognize at a glance

As for the victims all being patients, the syndrome would stop them from realizing that (since the fact they were apparently being hunted down would put their happy world in jeopardy). Since the syndrome would stop them from learning that they would not notice anything on the internet about that fact.


>How I understand this - Sakuma wanted to "clean" gigalomaniacs and he would do it anyway, but with Serika's help it could be easier so they got a deal - she would help him and he will do it in her way. It isn't clear if he forced her or not, considering what her actual motivation wasn't protecting Takuru she could help on her own volition. But relationships between Sakuma and Serika are left unknown to us as well, we never learn what actually happened between them in the past.


Sakuma did not want to clean anything, he just wanted to experiment on them and have fun. If anyone was controlling the whole thing it was Wakui, who gave Serika and Sakuma the leeway to do what they wanted since it happened to coincide with his plans.Last modified on 2019-01-09 at 19:53
#9 by any13th
2019-02-21 at 19:45
I got my own set of plotholes/bit of confusion.

1. I'm going off of the assumption that the true end is a continuation of the common route. The same number of people are dead for the most part, including Sakuma. Yet Kurusu is still alive.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad she's living, but it sort of makes things weird. The reason I think this puts a wrench in things is because this Kurusu being alive messes with the final battle with Sakuma and the alliance with Onoe.
It's weird to think that Kurusu being either dead or alive has little to no impact on the end of the common route if that's what I'm supposed to assume.
If I was too unclear, the plothole/confusion is how the true end can be a continuation of the common route if Kurusu's alive?

2. I feel like Kurusu's route was only a happy ending because Kawahara wasn't there. I could easily see him killing someone over finding out about Kurusu.
Basically, where's Kawahara?

3. I'm not entirely clear on what the relation is between the heroine routes and the true end.
Are they all the individual dreams/delusions of the heroines in their comas? If so, why was Kurusu the only one to think of a happy ending?

4. Why was Onoe able to see Wakui's Di-Sword? Does it have to do with her memory flashbacks/the strength of Wakui's powers?
I thought since she was recreated as a normal person cured of chaos child, she should no longer be a gigalomaniac. Although, gigalomaniacs that aren't chaos child patients do exist, maybe this is just a weird side effect of a delusion being made real.

5. Is the ending to the story open? Are there any hints as to who wins between Wakui and Takuru?
Way I see it, the next Chaos game HAS to take place after this game has ended, presumably either after Takuru's death or re-corruption, which in-game, may take anywhere from under 5 years to 50.

6. And why did Onoe sort of see the future/a different route when she spared Kurusu in the true end?(The image from the end of Kurusu's route was shown)

[Apologies if some of these questions were already answered, I didn't feel like reading through the entire thread]Last modified on 2019-02-21 at 20:50
#10 by mobotium
2019-02-22 at 00:21
Okay, let's see.

1 / 2 / 3 / 6:

The idea behind all of these is the same. Essentially, all of the common route and the heroine routes are a synchronised dream between Takuru and the heroines. If you want I can list all the hints to this (there are a LOT of them).

(By the way, this is a lot more obvious if you have played C;H)

From this, we can deduce some things, most importantly the fact that other than Takuru and the heroines, all characters are constructs based on the dreamer's interpretations of them. So:

1 / 6:

Kurusu dies in common route, yet does not in reality. Serika is a construct of Takuru's desires, and her sparing of Kurusu in reality was a moment of weakness in her "programing". Thus common route Serika, true to her original concept, retconned the story and successfully fulfilled her role. That's the most common theory.

My personal theory is that everything in common route was the same as reality. When Takuru arrives at the roof you hear the sounds of mind control, implying the possibility that he was caused to see Nono dying when she was actually alive. Perhaps Sakuma covering for Serika's mistake and moving the plot along as expected. Nono's "body" was then taken along by the police, who were mind controlled into creating a fake autopsy report. It is farfetched, but not impossible.

Thus, what Serika remembers in the true end is events as they actually happened.

2:

Kawahara, like all other characters, were based on the dreamer's perspectives of them. When the synchro aligned itself with Nono (that's how you choose the routes by the way, by having positive delusions with a certain person you are aligning Takuru's inner world with them), her own perspectives had a greater influence on events.

This is evident in Kawahara and Serika. Kawahara, to Nono, was a boy who hated the real her and loved the fake persona she put up. Into him she pushed her own self-hatred. Her rationalization of Serika's personality is based on her own perspective of the world as well, namely her own jealousy and over-protectiveness. So she projected into Serika those negative traits of hers. That's the reason both Kawahara and Serika act very differently in her route: They are reflections of Nono's own negative emotions towards herself and others.

3:

The dreams represent the heroine's views of reality, their inner worlds so to speak.

Arimura's world is filled with the concept of truth and lies, with her family, and her own regrets.

Hana's route is a fantastical story with monsters and a final boss, like the games and movies she uses to cope with her loneliness and guilt.

Uki's world is a reflection of her innermost desires, a world where she can have a family and be happy.

Nono's route is also about family, the thing she cherishes the most, and herself, the things that causes her the most suffering.

And in all of these worlds there's a external entity. Takuru, and by extension Serika, also warp the dreams, leading to the endings you see. If Nono's end seems happy it's because Takuru was satisfied with the enjoyment he got out of it.

4:

Serika saw Wakui's sword because he real booted it. In a non real booted state a sword can only be seen by gigalomaniacs and is essentially imaterial (read C;H for details). When it’s real booted(the colour scheme changes from blue to purple) it becomes a actual, real object that anyone can see.

5:

C;C LCC, unlike what most people seem to think, is not a dating sim spinoff.
It is a canon sequel that answers this exact question.



Think I got everything.Last modified on 2019-02-22 at 00:25
#11 by any13th
2019-02-22 at 10:55
Wow, thanks. I did read C;H, but I remember very little of it and also missed out on Noah. Guess I've got another 5 year wait ahead for me for C;C LCC.

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