Major problem with VN community

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#1 by concerned-eop
2019-01-04 at 23:49
link
#2 by fuukanou
2019-01-05 at 00:08
"For some EOPs trying to ask the feasibility of these translations o companies expressed interest in these titles, the JOP crowd would boo their questions and statement as mentioned previously."

There's a pretty good reason for this.
However hard you wish for it, it's not going to happen. Muramasa is, if it is ever translated, going to be with JAST and they work dead slowly. Similar reasons occur with a couple of other games, some because of historical contracts, some because of uptight publishers. If you're not willing to do the smallest amount of research into this then you're going to get jeered: after all this is the internet, home of people who can't operate in public while being the pricks they are inside so decide to take it to forums instead.

also, you never say what EOP and JOP stand for so I had to assume you meant English/Japanese-only-players
#3 by bunnyadvocate
2019-01-05 at 02:18
When I saw a brand new account posting a lengthy pastebin.org manifesto I was expecting a far more unhinged essay than it turned out to be, I'm disappointed.

I think you raise a few fair points about the toxicity in some parts of the fandom, but your dream of some future coming together of the fandom is never going to happen for two reasons:

1. With ever more translated/English VNs being released every year, the fandom is split between more titles than ever before and that's only going to continue. Hoping that we all somehow come together to love one VN isn't ever going to happen, people's tastes are too different.

2. What some of the more vocal untranslated VN fans (JOPs) prioritise can't generally be translated, that is a VN's prose. English and Japanese are dramatically different languages and any translation has to take some fairly generous liberties with the sentence structure to be readable, let alone retain any poetic flair the original writing had. It's not an easy task, and you can't expect amateur fan translators or professionals who are paid a pittance per word and need to rush to write fantastic prose. So those reading translated VNs tend to prioritise other things: the plot or h-scenes typically. That's why there's so often a clash in tastes and picking what's a "kamige," we're judging by different metrics.
#4 by yorhel
2019-01-05 at 07:12
This rant could have been written 8 years ago, and would have been more relevant back then. The split in the community still exists but I get the impression that, at least on VNDB, the toxicity between the two groups isn't nearly as strong nowadays. Most of the hardcore JOPs have left VNDB for other communities.

(That's not to say that the VNDB community doesn't have its own toxicity problems. It does, but that's a different problem from the JOP-vs-EOP discussion)
#5 by hotundeadaction
2019-01-05 at 07:27
didn't kominara jokingly tweet that they aren't getting invited back as well?
#6 by flamingsp
2019-01-05 at 09:50
This is a modified copypasta.

link to original
link to knowyourmeme pageLast modified on 2019-01-05 at 09:52
#7 by beliar
2019-01-05 at 10:00
Heh, the guy was in such a hurry to post it, he didn't proofread it fully and left some words and phrases from the original inside. Ctrl+F for 'melee'. :-D
#8 by flamingsp
2019-01-05 at 11:01
TIL Melee tends to support Tae Kim
#9 by sakurakoi
2019-01-05 at 11:35
More importantly, my years of research has proven that those "healthy" instant meals, whether oven, microwave or hot water ones (like those which maximum salt content, i.e 3-5g, a cup of noodles or pizza) taste even better with inane amounts of garlic.

Sadly, there is no culinary noble price but still, you are welcome and in a decade I may be able to prove that simply everything tastes better with garlic. GOP>JOP>EOP~
#10 by tomtheerogeman
2019-01-05 at 13:55
Most of the hardcore JOPs have left VNDB for other communities.

Besides erogamescape, what communities are they? I promise I'll still use VNDB.
#11 by flamingsp
2019-01-05 at 23:28
twitter and discord I guess
#12 by kominara
2019-01-06 at 00:14
pretty nice ctrl-f job, though i find it pretty hilarious that the best two examples of JOPs you could find are a guy who almost exclusively plays IWBTG fangames/VIPRPGs nowadays and a guy that's read literally two VNs in Japanese (that's a liberal estimate, btw)

#10 Most "JOPs" mainly use Twitter and Discord like #11 said, though you'll occasionally find them posting on Reddit as well, and there's still a dedicated group that uses IRC.Last modified on 2019-01-06 at 05:30
#13 by goblincrutch
2019-01-06 at 13:49
I haven't noticed any major conflict with EOPs and JOPs in a while. It's nice to know someone is addressing an elephant in the room but they're missing the forest for the trees if they think it's the main issue.

Just replace EOP with moege fan and JOP with plotge fan for more modern relevancy. And even that isn't the main problem. It's the elitism present in all otaku fan communities that is the overarching problem and if you want to go even further, human ego and tribal instincts.

For some reason, people look at big-eyed, nose-less, 2d fictional characters with rainbow spectrum hair and exaggerated expressions and then think they're Gordon Ramsay. Then they consider it their mission to convert everyone to their pseudo-religion. The bass may be objectively fucking raw but artistic quality has always been a matter of taste. There is no "one and only truth".

In the anime community, anime snobs are going into discussions of anime genres/works they hate to start flame wars. Same with the light novel community. And the manga community.

And of course the visual novel community. Sorry snobs but we are under no obligation to love or hate the same things as you. Nor are creators obligated to make the works you dream of. It goes both ways though. Everyone wants more than what they have from time to time but taking it to entitlement levels won't help anyone.

But we can tolerate our differences and do our best to enjoy our lives by appreciating what we do have. We don't have to pretend each other's shit doesn't stink but we don't have to become miserable fighting each other over it either.

That said, nothing will change. Makes me wonder why the tradcons and SJWs bother with us when we have our own fun police.

lol If this is really just a meme then you got me. I still stand by my words though.Last modified on 2019-01-06 at 16:08
#14 by matmic
2019-01-08 at 12:30
I would argue that vndb is the most nontoxic place there is for VN readers.
Yes we are split into groups but we still use this website and we all add to it by editing the database.
Yes our discussions can be heated, but we are almost never personal, and most of the time we just state our preferences.
I think that makes VNDB the perfect site for us to gather and talk.
#15 by bobjr2000
2019-01-08 at 13:04
Don't entirely understand what is being argued. forget which movie it was from but surmised it up well imo.

The day that humans stop fighting and being divide is the day we stop being human.
#16 by sanahtlig
2019-01-08 at 14:38
The main premise--that a few individuals in the community have vast power over everyone else--doesn't make much sense. If I had to pick out those who were most influential, it'd be the people selecting and pursuing licenses at the big publishers. But even they have their limits; in the end, JP developers refusing to license their games is the primary barrier to localization of the most requested titles. In addition, a number of JP developers have decided that quality translation isn't a priority, thereby ruining the product. All of this has little to do with silly political squabbles among community members such as that indicated by the OP.Last modified on 2019-01-08 at 14:47
#17 by toru-ben
2019-01-08 at 14:51
#16 I'm in contact with a japanese developer who is looking for someone that would help him translate/localize his eroge, but so far, he hasn't had any luck.
I wanted to redirect him to you, but haven't done so as of now.
Would you be interested in lending him a hand?
This topic is too good to not mention this right now.
#18 by sanahtlig
2019-01-08 at 16:36
@17: Send me the details via Twitter DM or Discord PM and I can look into it.

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