|#26 by bobjr2000|
2019-03-08 at 13:39
|I just think its funny the irony of being offend by fictional story and unless said otherwise doesn't reflect creator opinion of real world subjects. No problem if guy doesn't like game. But then goes on to make comment how they despise atheism. Atheism doesn't promote anything just a lack of belief in god. I would say that is closer to being something offensive than this vn its self. |
The don't offend me but its ok for me to offend others XD
|#27 by sakurakoi|
2019-03-08 at 14:10
it also is a branch that has a lot of people who only casually follow it.
This reminds me of my personal "indoctrination" and I was indeed an acolyte for about two years indeed. However, I pretty much recall no content from the preparation lessons for the Communion, at least, I do not recall reading much of the bible, just a tiny bit (literary only the first chapter). Confirmation I was also not pushed into (like, the time just passed without anything happening regarding it) and as such didn't do it.
Similarly to my parents, we are only followers on paper, no one visits the church and I do not even remember which one of them was Protestant and who was Catholic. They basically only visited the Church to see me performing (including that one time where I did fell unconscious, either due to the incense or hunger/exhaustion, or both).
Why was baptized in the first place? Mostly to be accepted into a nearby nursery school and primary school which were within walking distance, unlike... wait, where actually were other nursery and primary schools? I know where two middle+high schools are, plus the one I went to, as well as some kind of college-high school hybrid but otherwise, nope~
In any event zealots are cancer and I am glad to personally know none... or mayhaps I did just shy away from talking about a certain religion when not few in my class/grade followed it. At least there were no incidents related to fate and that's how it should be. One can believe whatever one wants, all that matters is that one does not spread it. While one is right that one should not offend another, proactively, a medium which is totally optional is in no way proactive and in the first place: All is fiction and not necessarily the opinion of the authors.
Needless to say, anyone who gladly believes in a certain religion or Christianity, is literary sick with an advanced version of the Stockholm Syndrome. Neither the god nor the faiths are remotely what one can call "good", by any measure. You are threatened, taken hostage, robbed and lied to with the merit being... what exactly?
The don't offend me but its ok for me to offend others XDWelcome to humanity, the h stands for hypocrisy, and hentai.
Seriously, what is my sole belief? Don't do to others what you don't want to have done to you. Being able to largely avoid this already, or rather alone, makes one a good human, in my humble opinion.
|#28 by onorub|
2019-03-08 at 14:22
|#27 I was trying to keep myself from responding because the topic went away from Dies Irae itself, but that one made me lose my temper. I won't tolerate being called "literary sick" because your teachings about christianity were garbage. One of the core points of christianity is "free will", so even if it's not recommended for a catholic to play eroge, that doesn't mean you're absolutely forbidden to do it. No one can tell what exactly puts you in hell and what doesn't because no one can pretend to be on god's throne.|
|#29 by bestkatalyn|
2019-03-08 at 22:40
|Yep, and it's not like this does something new or blasphemous by itself or anything like that. The anime/VN world in general does this since forever and often times way worse, like with demon main characters > evil angel antagonists, and stuff like that.|
At least this takes itself seriously and the difficulty of the material doesn't allow for it to be read by kids that don't know any better (unlike anime).Last modified on 2019-03-08 at 22:42
|#30 by pkkodama|
2019-03-10 at 01:45
|#23 being- Thank you good person.|
Indeed, I never said that the game shouldn't exist. I wasn't even criticizing the quality of the game itself or saying that its story should be changed to please one religion in special. It's impossible to please everyone and not insult any group of people in a written work, especially in a visual novel that takes 70 hours to complete. I'm completely against "politically correct" laws that prohibit people from saying or writing one or other thing that may offend one or other specific group of people. People are getting mad for no reason in this thread. I was merely pointing out that this game offends Christianity, which is a fact that cannot be denied. It blatantly does it. If someone made a thread claiming that a certain game offends Judaism, Islam, or atheism, for example, I wouldn't even open the thread, since it would have nothing to do with me.
Also, I wouldn't be a true catholic if I did not completely despise atheism. Being a catholic means to genuinely believe that it's the only true religion, unlike the actual pope is doing.Last modified on 2019-03-10 at 01:53
|#31 by evanescentblade|
2019-03-10 at 02:17
I guess I should make a distinction: do you despise atheism only as an idea, or do you also despise atheists - the people - and look down on them? Because if it’s the former, then okay, whatever, but if it’s the latter, then that’s your problem, being judgmental and condescending towards people who don’t follow your faith.
Also, you’re not one to determine what being a “true Catholic” means, as if you’re the absolute authority on the subject. There are plenty of Catholics who believe their faith is the true religion, but at the same time can also tolerate and respect atheism. I don’t think you’re any more “true” than they are.
|#32 by pkkodama|
2019-03-10 at 02:39
I'm not determining what being a true catholic means. I know what it means. A religion is not like a role-playing game. If you don't genuinely believe in the teachings of your religion then you don't really belong to it.
I respect atheists in the sense that I'm not going to force them to convert. But I'm not normally going to be friends with someone that I know that will go to hell. This would be an insult to my religion, as if it were some artificial thing detached from reality.
I completely despise atheism and the people who try to spread it and insult Christianity. And rightfully so, since otherwise I would be being indifferent to the fact that more people are going to hell, and indifference is a form of evil. That doesn't mean I'm going to use force to stop them from doing it. The crusaders did a great job, though.
But I still believe that written criticism of religion, like this game, should be allowed, and not censored, since censoring written works cause the opposite effect of the one that is intended.Last modified on 2019-03-10 at 02:57
|#33 by evanescentblade|
2019-03-10 at 02:56
Being friends with atheists would be an insult to your religion? Sheesh...
I hope you understand that people like you are part of the reason why atheists are less willing to open up to your faith. Which is ironic, considering how you want atheism to spread less. Your intolerant, holier-than-thou attitude isn’t a good approach if you want atheists to see your people in a better light.
|#34 by rampaa|
2019-03-10 at 03:07
I'm not determining what being a true Scotsman means. I know what it means.
Here, fixed it for you.
Anyway, all of your points are null and no one is interested in your puny beliefs. The reason for there being no "warning" for "true Christians" was because there was no need for that. Anyone with half a brain could figure that this VN (and most of the VNs, to be honest) is not very suitable for a "true Christian". You are merely pretending as if there was such a need.
I respect atheists in the sense that I'm not going to force them to convert.
I completely despise atheism and the people who try to spread it and insult Christianity.
That doesn't mean I'm going to use force to stop them from doing it.
The crusaders did a great job, though.
It seems more like you would kill atheists (or at least, be fine with them being killed) if you could. Good thing your sorry excuse of a religion doesn't hold such power anymore.
|#35 by pkkodama|
2019-03-10 at 03:08
You're saying that because you see religion as an artificial thing.
Treating atheism like a normal thing and talking to an atheist as if everything was okay would not only be an insult to my religion, but also and insult and an indifference towards the future of the atheist.
You have to choose your friendship anyways. Choosing someone in your life automatically means not choosing someone else. If you're going to choose people to spend your time with, then better be with the ones who share the same main principles. That doesn't mean I would refuse to talk with an atheist, but being friends is something else.Last modified on 2019-03-10 at 03:13
|#36 by pkkodama|
2019-03-10 at 03:11
Go get a proper education you idiot, and grow up. You know absolutely nothing about religion and Christianity.
|#37 by evanescentblade|
2019-03-10 at 03:40
Again, your close-minded, unloving approach is not helping athiests see your faith in a better light, which is counter-productive on your part...
Anyway, I think our values are way too different for us to ever see eye to eye... I’ve never encountered a Christian with the kind of attitude you have. I have several Christian friends (and family relatives) and we get along just fine. There’s nothing wrong with that.
|#38 by pkkodama|
2019-03-10 at 03:54
It seems like it's not just our values that are way too different. It's like we're talking in different languages, since you're clearly not understanding my replies.
I'm not being close-minded at all. It's about knowing the teachings of one's religion and living coherently.
Calling what I wrote an "unloving approach" forces me to think that you're just unaware of what it means to not follow Jesus Christ according to the teachings of Christianity.
To make it more simple, according to the teachings of Catholicism: If you don't convert to Catholicism you will go to hell. And if I tell you that you're not going to hell I'll be lying to you and disrespecting the teachings of my religion.Last modified on 2019-03-10 at 04:01
|#39 by evanescentblade|
2019-03-10 at 04:09
And I’m saying that I don’t think the way you’re applying your teachings applies to most Christians in this case... because again, I have Christian friends, and I’m pretty sure there are tons and tons of Christians who get along well with atheists as friends.
|#40 by pkkodama|
2019-03-10 at 04:23
Well, even the pope is not coherent with his religion, so that's no surprise to me...
To be fair, though, I do believe that your Christian friends may be coherent with what Catholicism has been known for being since the Second Vatican Council.Last modified on 2019-03-10 at 04:51
|#41 by freshift|
2019-03-10 at 04:36
|I'm no moderator, just a noob, but don't you people think this is getting way too much off-topic?|
|#42 by pkkodama|
2019-03-10 at 04:52
You're completely right. I should have stopped replying after #30.Last modified on 2019-03-10 at 04:53
|#43 by bobjr2000|
2019-03-10 at 05:36
|I am genuine curious to where you learned Catholicism pkkodama because it has to be a cultural difference and not a religious one. |
I was raised Christian Catholic up til 10th grade right before confirmation, which probably can guess I did not participate in ceremony. Went to private Christian school and thoroughly studied bible from a religious/philosophical view to historical view as well.
We were taught many things such as golden rule treat others as you want to be treated. Turn the other cheek meaning not to seek revenge upon those who wrong you. To love your neighbor as yourself, it didn't make rules to exceptions. Let all you be done in love. "If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; And if he is thirsty, give him water to drink. Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.
Luke, Matthew, Jesus, John and through out bible teaches love not hate, forgiveness and acceptance. Only God himself is worthy to judge others. It was suppose to be a religion found on love.
This is why I am not a fan of religion besides the few ethical differences in personal beliefs(plus the faith aspect) there is always a group that if don't get it wrong either twist it or emphasize parts that are not as important.
Quick info so pkkodama doesn't tarnish all Christians or give a view he represents majority. Most know Christianity is divide into sec and a few main ones most know, technical many smaller sections exist as well. The reason Christianity is divide is because they have different interpretations of bible which can change what they believe in. Going further is cultural which varies from conservative to liberal. Conservative following everything as fact to liberal who can treat teaching more as guide lines from bible, depending on sect an culture people can fall differently on how they view religious beliefs. Can also add those who incorporate old testament which tends to have many of less modern friendly rules/beliefs and new testament which follows Jesus and more hippie friendly.
Pkkodama is right in view of those who don't believe in Catholicism go to hell. However his statements of
"The crusaders did a great job"
"treating atheism like a normal thing and talking to an atheist as if everything was okay would not only be an insult to my religion,but also and insult and an indifference towards the future of the atheist."
"But I'm not normally going to be friends with someone that I know that will go to hell."
Are opposite of what Jesus taught and did as he didn't come to save those already saved but those who were not and show them way with love and compassion. That is why many of jewish people were mad because Jesus spent his time saving sinners and befriend those they outcast from society/religion.
So no religion isn't to despise or hate anything. Its to love and hopefully show others way by example and it comes down to God to decide final judgement.
-Just another despised atheist
|#44 by pkkodama|
2019-03-10 at 06:36
Saying that religion isn't to despise anything is not a logical reasoning. How can Christians not despise rapists, for example? We are definitely supposed to despise and condemn evil. What would happen with the world if we just prayed for murderers and rapists and "loved" them instead of stopping them from keeping committing crimes while just waiting for God to decide what to do with them? God gave us free will, so it's in our hands to prevent evil from spreading in the world. I'm not saying that the ends necessarily justify the means, but the crusaders really deserve our respect for helping to spread the religion and preventing more people from going to hell.
You are probably misunderstanding what I meant in the last two citations. I'm not Jesus Christ, but when Jesus Christ was saving the sinners, he wasn't normally talking to them; he was on a mission to save them. What I'm criticizing is the way how many people who claim to be catholic end up accepting as normal the fact that their friends are atheists, as if religion was something detached from reality. I do agree with what you said about showing others the right way by example, though, if that means as a way to convince others to convert to the religion. The fact that people are going to hell if they don't accept Jesus Christ as their savior is a serious thing, so discussions about everyday subjects shouldn't take priority over it. A Christian shouldn't refuse to talk with an atheist, but you have to choose your true friendships, and it only makes sense to choose those who share the same main principles if you are willing to fight for a greater good. Jesus Christ also chose his apostles.
And what do you mean with that last sentence? If you're referring to me with that, then you are contradicting your whole reply.
|#45 by roadi|
2019-03-10 at 07:20
|Let's go with agnosticism and call it a day, k?|
If there is not enough personal experience for someone to assert that God does indeed exist (whatever this means to them), I think it does very little to try and convince them with words only.
And, of course, vice versa.
I do somewhat understand the displeasure of being told, as if a truth, that "God does not exist" if one is a believer.
Consider yourself being told that your mother does not exist.
You know she does, and saying otherwise is somewhat of an insult towards her and also towards you, who knows otherwise.
And, I guess, vice versa?
|#46 by sup-chan|
2019-03-10 at 23:02
|Rusalka not having a route is the only offensive thing about Dies irae tbh.|
|#47 by [deleted]|
2019-03-11 at 07:30
|Time to test my new BS filter:|
-op started thread to warn fellow christians of potentially offensive content.
-op doesn't like opposing views but doesn't intend to thought police VNs as they are opposed to political correctness
The rest about political/religious opinions is pure bullshit.
Life is liberating when you learn to filter out the nonsense.
Could have just said warning: content may be offensive to christians. Might've triggered less people.
|#48 by sebastian|
2019-04-20 at 06:09
|It's shame that my english skills are too low to write sth more complex, but @pkkodama if you really believe in God please read and understand Bible, think about catholic church rules. Catholic ~= Christian. If you will follow catholic church blindly you will be shocked when Jesus will come back.|
former Catholic, present Christian
PS: @pkkodama you should never follow any faction that claim, they are Christians, most of them just want to make money or rule over people...
|#49 by coldnobility|
2019-05-08 at 05:51
|jesus this thread is bait|
|#50 by pkkodama|
2019-06-14 at 18:46
|#47 by goblincrutch|
There's no bullshit at all in what I wrote.
It's not that I dislike "opposing views", but I obviously dislike when I hear or read something that I find very offensive to me for whatever reason. That's how human beings are. I'm completely against using "political correctness" to use the law to prohibit people from writing or saying something that may be subjectively offensive to one or other group of people. But that's not what I have done in this thread(ironically, that's what some people did with me in this thread by asking the moderators to lock it). Just like the author of this visual novel had the right to criticize Christianity, I have the right to criticize his work, and you have the right to criticize my criticism.
Just calling something "bullshit" is invalid, and just warning that its content may be offensive to Christians is too vague and would raise the question of why exactly I found it offensive. One needs arguments to defend his claims.
This thread has been locked, you can't reply to it anymore