|#1 by tabasaki|
2019-04-04 at 19:31
I watched the first few episodes of the anime a long time ago and they mentioned using the alternative universe time travel theory where someone travelling back in time goes into a new universe (essentially creating it) and leaves the old one behind.
Naturally, a lot of the story involves solving problems by travelling back in time, but you're not fixing the universe, you're creating a second one. At the end of most time travel stories, the protagonist (or whomever) is just leaving behind tons of problematic (and potentially ruined) universes.
This always diminishes the value in my eyes. From what I remember, there's still a couple of universes where Ruka is still a trans-woman. Okarin didn't really fix the problem, he just went to a universe where it didn't exist.
I'll probably pick this game up regardless, but it would be nice if there some indication that this wasn't the case.
Should I stop reading at the end of chapter 6? According to numerous sources on this board, that's where the climax is and it goes downhill from there.
I have a spoiler for the early part of the story, so I guess minor earlygame spoilers are okay.
|#2 by being|
2019-04-04 at 21:28
|how is this different from brancing paths where you fix heroines problem in one route and not in another for example|
this is enough to make "entire game pointless" for you, well, to each their own
|#3 by tabasaki|
2019-04-05 at 02:38
|I think it's a bit different, because you are leaving behind several universes where nobody's problems are solved. |
I dislike that you can't get a happy ending for everyone in games like F/SN or Sengoku Rance, but you're at least still helping someone.
|#4 by jikorde|
2019-04-05 at 05:23
|So the thing with Steins gate is that Okabe can't really fix anything. He's just a otaku with chuuni syndrome. All he can really manage is to fix his own screw ups and go to other timelines. If you go by how the game handles it, the reality Okabe is in is the one the world is going with, as that is the one being observed. Any action he does that would fix anything just changes the world he is observing, so he can't truly fix anything as every world line exists at the same time and all he does is move between them.|
As far as only reading to chapter 6, that would be when the game finally gets interesting. Instead of meandering it finally gets a plot, so the idea of dropping it there is really weird to me. Like whats the point of reading all the setup stuff just to drop it before anything pays off? If you only want character moments maybe, but then don't read Stein's Gate. Read a moege instead.
Ruka isn't a trans women. He is either a man or a women. Not both.Last modified on 2019-04-05 at 05:23
|#5 by bobjr2000|
2019-04-05 at 05:43
|There intersex people and hermaphrodites who can have both male and female organs while not truly being just male or female. just saying.|
|#6 by jikorde|
2019-04-05 at 06:00
|And that character is neither of those. They are one or the other. That's their entire plot arc. |
Yes, people with both exist. There's ton of VN's with those used as fetish fuel and such.
|#7 by erohatasensei|
2019-04-05 at 12:49
|Steins;Gate is a somewhat egoistic story, because it does not really consider the fucked up timelines that are left over. But in a way this doesn't matter because Okabe as the protagonist can only observe one at a time. And the one he is currently in matters.|
But it holds the super important message that you cannot change time or erase dislikeable incidents because it creates issues with the structure of time itself. How often did we think that if we just could turn back time and solve our mistakes?...
Steins;Gate kind of shows that this endeavour is essentially pointless and it always leads back to a predetermined string of time. For better or for worse it could even lead to an endless time loop. That way it explores the endings like all time-travel stories eventually do...
Also that you cannot get a happy ending for everyone is kind of a lifes lesson and kinda the games message.
Order the mess I have written yourself. It's just my personal rambling.Last modified on 2019-04-05 at 12:51
|#8 by kei-tr|
2019-04-05 at 13:08
|"...The fish in the sea know not the land. If they too hold wisdom, they too will be destroyed. |
It is more ridiculous for man to exceed light speed than for fish to live ashore.
This may also be called God's final warning to those who rebel."
Game's one of the main points how by manipulating time to fix problems beyond human power. Because it would cause raise a phenomenon called "Butterfly Effect" which is impossible to foresee effects.
Actually Okarin tries to do that one of the side endings (Faris side ending: rather than undoing his D-mail he sends another D-mail to reach an outcome where both his father alive and he got closer to getting IBN 5100 back) but he doesn't get results exactly he wants.
But look from this perspective, I always thought like this: Rather than leaving behind ruined alternate realities that had problems, he removes their reason of existence, he makes those alternate realities never existed in the first place thus their problems never surface. In short, those alternate realities created because of a D-mail, he sends another D-mail making first one ignored thus alternate reality never created in the first place.Last modified on 2019-04-05 at 13:17
|#9 by ramaladni|
2019-04-05 at 15:20
|Isn't that how real life works? It's impossible to make everyone happy at the same time. Steins;Gate is a story of sacrifice and the alternate endings are nothing but taking the easy way out. Thinking that one can mantain the statuos quo without hurting others leads only to a world of pain.|
You could extend this to any other VN, for example, a game where in each route you help different heroine overcome their troubles. By picking one, you are disregarding the rest, but that's how things are.
|#10 by tabasaki|
2019-04-05 at 18:28
To keep it incredibly simple, a trans-woman is a woman (gender:female) trapped in a man's body (sex:male). That definition works just fine 99% of the time.
Ruka had Okarin send that one text message back in time because she thinks she should've been born female. So he does that and her sex changes to female. aka she's no longer trans
Not getting a happy ending for everyone is realistic, but Steins;Gate seems to take it to the next level by making the endings unhappy for everyone in almost all universes but the last one.
@kei-tr I started this and clearly I'll have to read more to continue this conversation further, but you're basically saying that the old timelines cease to exist? I guess I'll have to think of it like that.
|#11 by kei-tr|
2019-04-05 at 19:43
I started this and clearly I'll have to read more to continue this conversation further, but you're basically saying that the old timelines cease to exist? I guess I'll have to think of it like that.
Characters debate over it couple of times saying both it ceasing to exist and continuing even after observer (Okarin) leaves possible, but general acceptance in vn is its ceasing to exist or rather as I said its not even created in the first place. Though there where times characters wanted to believe its otherwise, that is, it continues even after observer leaves them, but that's just because they want to console themselves or give courage to Okarin what needs to be done (chapter before the last).
In my opinion I always thought its absurd to able to create a whole universe even with something small like putting sugar your coffee this morning or not. Though this vn in this regard states it has to noticeable impact in the world to create alternate reality (change timeline).Last modified on 2019-04-05 at 19:55
|#12 by erohatasensei|
2019-04-05 at 20:54
|@tabasaki That is the point. Thats what Steins Gate is.|
|#13 by kiru|
2019-04-05 at 21:19
|@11: Timelines and the likes are based on the many-worlds idea. So yeah, every action creates a different possibility. Even though it's very close, it's still different. As such, there are likely an infinite amount of them, though you obviously can't proof that, as only POSSIBLE actions lead to branches. Maybe there's a state where no possible action exists anymore that all worlds reach eventually.|
Steins;Gate is generally not very good at what it's doing, so I wouldn't think too much about what it does. It's better for your enjoyment.
|#14 by jpnex|
2019-04-19 at 08:17
|My fucking God people, It Is explicitly said that there Is only one active Worldline, Okabe's actions are not not worthless. It does not use the many world interpretation, Suzuha directly told Okabe that she said that on @channel just to confuse CERN. As others said, those d mails creating brand new universes would be ridiculous In first place. Why people forget that when It's such an important point of the story Is beyond me. Probably a bit late, but stopping at chapter 6 would be retarded. It's peak Is actually the third act, btw.|
I disagree with the other guy here btw, If anything the thematical part In S;G Is the best handled part of ItLast modified on 2019-04-19 at 08:41
|#15 by dk382⭐|
2019-04-19 at 23:43
|I dunno about the details on whether the other worldlines still "exist" or not. I was under the impression they do, because the other sciadv games exist on other worldlines. But as far as I'm concerned, the detail is mostly irrelevant in S;G since we only see things through Okabe's eyes anyway. And a "one world" theory that erases the possibility of less-fortunate worldlines continuing to exist would sort of diminish the emotional impact of Okabe's sacrifices. A one world theory is something you tell yourself to make yourself feel better about the other worlds that can't be saved. Or it's some plot contrivance the writers pull out of their asses to make the readers feel better. Either way, it's dumb, imo.|
Still, whether the game is "pointless" or not depends on what you value in a story. Steins;Gate is a very story about Okabe and his personal journey, and is not necessarily about saving the world (and I think the series is at its worst when it does attempt to delve into that topic, particularly in 0).
edit: The idea is that the 'attractor field' converges minor variations of a major worldline into one, but there can be multiple concurrent major worldlines, right?Last modified on 2019-04-25 at 06:02
|#16 by eacil|
2019-04-20 at 03:42
Or it's some plot contrivance the writers pull out of their asses to make the readers feel better. Either way, it's dumb, imo.You mean like how Mayuri has to die because ***convergence***?
|#17 by mobotium|
2019-04-26 at 21:36
|There is ever only one active worldline. The others exist only as possibilities. This is stated in the novel.|
>the other sciadv games exist on other worldlines
The other SciADV games happen on the Steins Gate worldline unless stated otherwise. We don't know what happens to those storylines on other worldlines as we are only shown the Steins Gate worldline version, aside from C;H that we can extrapolate happens on a number of worldlines due to its consequences being noticeable in S;G.
Also, it's Luka not Ruka.Last modified on 2019-04-26 at 23:48
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