What is it that bothers you the most w/ Netorare?
|#1 by batoo|
2019-04-08 at 15:24
|I've been playing visual novels for three years now and I've already been registered on VNDB for almost two years. Since I started, I've sailed on almost every genre (except Yoi, it'll never happen lol) but there's one genre I can't figure out: Netorare games.|
Before I hated the NTR, I really couldn't play it. But since then, I've discovered some games that I'd rather liked and I've finally found what I hate most about the NTR: a protagonist with no charisma, the no-nuts one. This is the type of protagonist seen in 95% of NTR-type NVs. For example, in Kimi no Omoi the protagonist ends up like a piece of shit, whining and jerking off in front of the porn videos shot by his childhood friend. Pitiful, isn't it?
What I also don't like is the kind of heroine who "forgets" 100% of her boyfriend/husband right after having sex with another because of a rape, that's WTF. I don't take the time to read them.
However, I like NTR VNs with the exact opposite of this type of protagonist, one who doesn't let himself be defeated or who tries to get up again, either by redoing his life with another girl, by taking revenge or by trying to conquer/reacquire his romantic interest. For example, from the same developer as Kimi no Omoi, in KanoBitch ~Kanojo ga Bitch ni natta Riyuu~ the protagonist tries to conquer his childhood friend after learning that she had become a huge bitch. Well, even if he looks pathetic, at least he's trying!
I also like the VNs where we can avoid totally or partially the NTR as for Tsumamigui 3. The idea that another character will try to steal your love interest if you're not interested enough in her is pretty good, it really gives me the impression that if she's gone elsewhere, it's my fault for not seeing her enough.
On the other hand, I love to see protagonists like Yandere, who are looking for revenge after learning that their romantic interest will go elsewhere, that I love it.
In the end, I don't know what to think about Netorare (except those with a certain type of heroines... These are pure shit. I wouldn't even wipe my ass with it if I had to). All I know is that what bothers me or pleases me the most in it is the protagonist AND a good story.
What about you? What is the most repulsive thing (or what attracts you the most) about Netorare?
|#2 by shinytentacool|
2019-04-08 at 23:59
|I already had enough NTR happen in my real life tyvm|
3DPD, not even once
|#3 by ramaladni|
2019-04-09 at 00:41
|I guess it's really important for you as the reader to be invested in the story so that you'll care about the events, the heroines themselves and the outcomes of whatever might happen. |
You mentioned Tsumamigui but that's a game where nothing is really at stake, because the rivals just don't have a chance. You literally have to skip for weeks to see the Netorare.
Part of what I like about Netorare is the constant tension that comes with challenging rivals and making the right choices, but I hate games where the choices are the "do you want to be NTR'd" type. I also enjoy seeing the heroines fall to sexual pleasure in a twisted sort of way, but without them being portrayed as merely cheating whores.
Can't say Netorare is bad by itself, just bad NTR games or bad application of the concept. I'd recommend Guignol since it's a game with an excellent atmosphere, you become really invested with the characters and the gameplay can be pretty harsh, so you might find yourself pondering over ever single stat like I did. Pretty fun.
Here's a similar discussion: link
|#4 by jikorde|
2019-04-09 at 01:20
|Part of my dislike comes from how bad the protagonists usually are to justify the NTR. Weak willed, no sex skills or stamina, good natured but cowards. Honestly I've played a decent amount of NTR type RPG Maker stuff and the amount of times I've thought they could remove the husband/male entirely and the game wouldn't change is almost 100%.|
It's also how stupid the females feel, like any justification worked. Oh my boyfriend is being bullied? Better sleep with his tormentors to stop them, that won't kill the guy's self esteem. My man's boss wants me or he'll fire my husband? Better give in right now. It's not exactly compelling when both parts of the couple don't really try to avoid it any way and give up so easily.
|#5 by kratoscar2008|
2019-04-09 at 01:23
|I dont mind NTR as long as either stays entirely NTR focused or i dont find any of the heroine's appealing.|
I HATE with a passion optional NTR. Because it can easily be added to a game thats not about NTR and people will accept it because its optional.
Im the kind of user who prefer to keep the girls pure and likes to have a complete gallery so optional NTR not only ruins the girl but also ruins the game entirely.
A recent case of this was Spooky School series, after coming from Jutaijima i was expecting Jutaijima 2 but what i got as one of those Lune games with the old formula that i despise so much, which is a shame because the heroines are nice but the NTR completely kills it.
So yeah i hate NTR when its on Non-NTR games.
|#6 by artumis|
2019-04-09 at 07:26
|NTR is a bit of a broad topic and I think it runs into the same kinds of problems you see with bad writing in general: poor justifications, quick character transformations, etc. Some games use it as a bad ending, while others revolve around it entirely, but both can run into bad writing.|
While most can probably give bad writing a pass in a happy story, NTR makes it quite easy for things to fall apart quickly.
That said, I like NTR, particularly if it can manage to turn the whole thing into a process. A bad ending with story, kind of like watching a train wreck in slow motion. If it's a bad ending in an otherwise happy title, there should be some build up before it finally happens; a final bad choice in the bad route that brings you to an NTR ending.
Mileage will vary based off who you consider the "protagonist" of a story. The throwaway Hetare Protagonist is usually not someone I actually consider the "Protagonist" as they're usually more of a supporting character. For me, the Heroine is usually the Protagonist in these cases, as the story is about her. That doesn't necessarily mean NTR is a good thing for her, though it could be. To reiterate the good writing bit, it's best when she can put some effort into the relationship and struggle to rectify the situation before it does go full NTR.
Sometimes though, both the "Hero" and "Heroine" are useless, neither one putting the effort into the relationship and any resulting NTR endings feel like both characters getting what they deserve.
So I guess in general, there isn't anything specific to netorare that bothers me. It's better when all the characters are written well. Stories where the "Protagonist" is little more than a framing device to allow for netorare to happen are weak, as there's no bond between the characters to watch fall apart.
|#7 by goblincrutch|
2019-04-09 at 10:53
|My problem with NTR is the same problem I have with promiscuity: faithlessness. If I wanted a story like that, I'd just ask any of the divorced people I know irl. Like mentioned elswhere the|
protagonists and heroines tend to also have little to no redeeming features which is one of the biggest mistakes a writer could make imo.
A story where the protagonist realizes he is the prize, works hard on personal development and attracts some other, better girl through sheer diligence and integrity would be the kind of NTR I could get behind, even if he started off as a simping wimp.
I'd get a schadenfreude from the faithless heroine realizing how badly she screwed up but not getting a second chance as the protagonist gives his time to someone who's worth it.Last modified on 2019-04-09 at 11:08
|#8 by sakurakoi|
2019-04-09 at 11:26
The throwaway Hetare Protagonist is usually not someone I actually consider the "Protagonist" as they're usually more of a supporting character.They are still the protagonist thou' because one is being bothered by their PoV and thoughts, while NTR often has a female PoV or third person one as well, it's still rather bothersome...
but the most bothersome is how far the genre spread and how many are in denial about its "true nature" so to speak. It's basically a self-defense mechanism on a different magnitude than other "surreal" fetishes.
Whereas those who despair, well, just take a look at the much higher number of male suicides, they sure shall never reproduce and why do people commit suicide? Most do so because they have nothing, which includes not having a mate.
The other part commits suicide due to serious mental afflictions that led them to despair otherwise... or well, when it's not despair, they are more than just seriously ill, they are a lost cause. Terminal stupidity I dare to say. Philosophical pursuit my behind.
But that's what "evens" the score, for females much more rarely do lose everything, for after all, most can still find a mate and one is still better than none or rather... just raise the offspring alone, with the help of the state even, by mayhaps making the male still take responsibility.
Netorare is indeed much less common enjoyed by females and mostly for different reasons. It's to show-off their and in the end they still want to be victorious, proving their superiority, twice. Of course making the man unfaithful reduces its, er, his quality but that's where "Protagonist-organized" NTR comes into play.
on a side note, either optional NTR/non-focus on NTR is a waste of resources for those who are not into it (i.e why onani?) or is for those who harbor a superiority-complex (which comes in a package with an inferiority one) and those guys ain't rare considering the spread of NTR and popularity of Alice Soft, where being shown "NTR" is par for the course even if one does nothing wrong, like when one has to choose between two sub-heroines. (Having one simply raped, awesome... for whom?)
Obviously, there is a difference between having an NTR end and being shown an NTR scene. While the latter might be better for shoving one's failure in one's face, this can be achieved without and there is no reason to get excited by it, no?
Welp, inbe4 the "Cuckoldry is the thinking man's fetish"-brigade which discriminates against women for not including them~
|#9 by sanahtlig|
2019-04-09 at 12:15
|I like NTR when it's used to build emotional tension and suspense. I tend to dislike fetishsized NTR with masochistic (the protagonist and/or heroine are completely useless) or misogynistic (the heroine is a ravenous slut) undertones. It would probably also help to have an antagonist that is relatable (e.g., Taisuke in School Days) and not just the personification of some negative trait, but that seems rare.Last modified on 2019-04-10 at 16:50|
|#10 by cecilyh|
2019-04-09 at 13:07
|i suspect people want very different things out of NTR so it ends up being more than one fetish really, and this causes confusion.|
there's a lot of people in the real world who get off on watching their wife have sex with another guy, but that's all arranged between the three of them, it's not faithlessness, it's a kind of swinging with a bit of humiliation kink mixed in.
there's people who enjoy bad ends because it provides contrast to the rest of the story. so 'your girl gets gangbanged by other guys oops' as a quick bad end is no different than watching her be murdered by monsters
there's people who enjoy watching character flaws be magnified to their (il)logical extreme, so if characters all have some slight weakness, a bad route where everything goes as horrendously wrong as possible and all the protagonist's weaknesses overwhelm him and he becomes some pitiful mewling creature despise by the woman who once loved him, that's some kind of catharsis
i don't understand the appeal of some of these games that are really just about a heroine being slutty, but add some useless husband who has nothing to do with the plot just to have her be cheating on someone. you can do a sex-blackmail story or a 'gotta sleep with the whole town to raise money' story without that element and it would really be more fun to just focus on her descent into slutdom without the sad sack boyfriend, wouldn't it?
some NTR stories sound like they're really mentally unhealthy though, like they're preying on guys who already think everyone will betray them for no reason, and rather than help them come to a better way of dealing with interpersonal relations, this kind of porn comes along and says "yes, all women will cheat on you, no one will ever love you no matter what you do, you are utterly worthless and disgusting". THIS IS NOT HEALTHY.
|#11 by xero95|
2019-04-09 at 16:55
|What bothers me the most is when people come into NTR doujins, visual novels ect and gooooooooo.............|
WHY THE FUCK IS THIS NTR REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE?! WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS, THIS WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER IF IT WASN'T NTR!
But I'm pretty sure those are vanillafags :p that clearly don't know how to avoid shit.Last modified on 2019-04-09 at 16:56
|#12 by truetakuma|
2019-04-09 at 17:31
|Because it is just another (fancy) name for cuckolding.|
For every disgusting fetishes VN translated out there they could be translating some vanilla goodness or missing fandiscs.Last modified on 2019-04-09 at 17:47
|#13 by ramaladni|
2019-04-09 at 18:45
|#11 That's specially annoying in websites that have rating systems since people just give poor ratings to fetishes they don't like, such as NTR and loli. |
#12 Netorare =/= Cuckholding. Also, I'd say there's plenty translated vanilla games already and too few feitsh stuff.
|#14 by goblincrutch|
2019-04-10 at 04:03
|Wow, there really are brigades.|
@11 In case you haven't noticed, people are like that about almost anything:
Moege- WTF IS THIS KAWAII BULLSHIT?!
Plotge- THIS SHIT'S TOO LONG! MY DICK'S SHRIVELING AWAY!
SoL- WHERE'S THE ACTION?!
Romcom- NOT ENUFF CRYING!
...and so on.
Oh, if only we had some sort of database for vns with a tag system that allows these haters to check for things they don't like!
Imagine all the time and disappointment such a thing would save for those who do a few minutes of basic research!Last modified on 2019-04-10 at 04:11
|#15 by bobjr2000|
2019-04-10 at 15:57
|Something I wouldn't put up/enjoy in real life not sure why it would appeal me to playing entire game about it.|
|#16 by xero95|
2019-04-10 at 16:28
Yeah but you don't get that as much as vanilla nerds clicking on NTR and screeching to high heavens how this shit is disgusting and wrong and blah blah blah when they can just ya know...not click on it in the first place! :p
|#17 by onorub|
2019-04-10 at 16:30
|Types B and C in general. "Girl was a slut deep down from the very beginning" is a far hotter scenario than "pure girl gets raped and becomes a nympho".|
|#18 by sakurakoi|
2019-04-10 at 16:59
Yeah but you don't get that as much as vanilla nerds clicking on NTR and screeching to high heavens how this shit is disgusting and wrong and blah blah blah when they can just ya know...not click on it in the first place! :pFun Fact: More than every 10th NTR work has it marked as spoiler~
Never even mind that it is even less likely to be apparent from screenshots or titles&descriptions alone.
|#19 by truetakuma|
2019-04-10 at 23:39
|So different that in any |
dictionary they are indistinguishable except cuckold is more for married life.
Netorare Type A: shameless cuck.
Netorare Type B: ashamed cuck.
Netorare Type C: cuck-in-denial.Last modified on 2019-04-10 at 23:39
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