|#26 by gorgils|
2011-10-20 at 19:03
I gotta say, you did something wrong with the skipping part. To get bad ends you don't need many options, there's the shortcut system at the main menu that speeds things up, and 5 hours skipping is just too much. I don't think I skipped more than 1 hour and I got all bad ends.Oh well, I was rushing so much to finish it that I actually hadn't seen the shortcut system until I got into Coco's route. My bad I guess.
But still the skipping and scene repeating take quite some time.
robot dog thing is complete bullshit^Agreed
Also, the Takeshi thing is obviously a Cure effect. He already experienced it when he escaped from HIMMEL without waiting the twelve hours (I think it was 12) of decompression to save Sora and Tsugumi. We don't know exactly how it works.Yeah that makes sense. I actually hadn't thought of that but I was still convinced that the reason Takeshi survived was because of Cure. A decent explanation but..
convenient plot device^Negative for the overall story in my books.
And stop using the word troll, goddamn^lol, I'll try. But they did troll at some occasions, especially with the dog.
Not to mention that Coco herself was also a troll character.
We're talking about a 14 years old girl that acted and looked like 9 yet she had ESP powers and wisdom from many parallel universes at a point.
Brick Winkel must have been hell of a lolicon, lol.Last modified on 2011-10-20 at 19:08
|#27 by warfoki|
2012-01-14 at 04:12
I finished Ever 17 a few days back and decided to waste my (and yours, who're reading this) time with writing a review even though probably everybody have played this by now. Anyway, let's get to it...
I skip giving a rundown on the basic premise, let's jump in the middle instead. The four initial routes were grating to read most of the time. I can name several reasons for this:
1) Infodumps. Those damn infodumps. Seriously, they were horrible. First of all: they were repetitive. All of them had the same structure: First they explained the topic in a few lines, using scientific terminology. Then explaining it again in layman terms. Then explaining it AGAIN with examples, so a 10 year old, who knows nothing about physics could understand it. Sometimes the game asked me whether I understand it or not but those decisions were meaningless: if I said yes, then the protagonist explained it to the infodumper, to prove that he understood it. And I understood every explanation on from the first few lines, if there was an explanation needed at all. (I mean Archimedes' principle? Really? It's basic physics for crying out loud!) Not to mention, that infodumps were unskippably repeated several times. I had to read Sora's basic rundown on LeMU's state three times, even if I skipped it whenever it was possible.
2) There were other repeated scenes on the individual routes, what made me skip a lot. And also made me realise that the actual heroine routes aren't that long, so by the time I get used to one of them, the route was almost over.
3) It's a matter of taste but I found it strange that the almost never became claustrophobic and the closest thing we had to a mental breakdown (what would natural in such a situation) was the Kid throwing a tantrum. I'd had a more serious take on the whole story, if I were to write something like this. Especially that the comic realief parts weren't that funny.
However, the actual endings and the last third parts of each route were exciting (not that way, you weird, weird person) and interesting to read. And in retrospect, after the true ending they made sense. And while we're at it: Coco's route (which wasn't really hers but anyway) route was awesome. If I think about it, the game basically had roughly 20 hours of prologue, 7-8 hours of exposition and a 20 minute long epilogue. And this is the root of the problem here: the individual routes weren't explained anything in detail, only gave a few pieces of information regarding the plot and hellish amount of infodump. In retrospect it makes sense but for that you first have to get through them, without really understanding anything about what's going on.
Also, it pissed me off that in the end one of the longest infodumps in the game had no point to exist at all. And that they threw logic to the wind by making Sora remember that "Keep it simple!" line, making Hokuto able to sink to the bottom of the ocean without getting killed by the pressure or by the lack of oxygen, etc. Making such mistakes when half of the game was about setting up the metaphysics is extremely stupid.
Ok, I won't make a full list of the cast, since I should put most of it into spoiler tags and I don't feel like doing that. So let's just focus on the heroines, whom has their own endings.
You: I played her route first. She's kinda bland, her eccentric behaviour was more annoying than anything else.
Sara: On the other hand, I just love her personality. Seriously, the only character in the game whose comedy parts were actually funny.
Sora: No matter how I try to look at her, her personality is kinda one-note. And I cannot really accept her as Takeshi's love interest. It's a personal opinion and mindset but she is an AI. A program, not a person. And while I understand the relevance of Pygmalion's tale, there's one problem there: that's a myth, with gods, magic, etc. You can do anything with magic in a myth. While the core story here is based on "science". No matter how I look at the situation here, a man made machine will never be a human being and I'll never be able to treat it like that. Which kinda kills the whole point of her story arc for me.
Tsugumi: My favourite character in the whole visual novel. She delivered the so needed drama-relief, while most of the time everybody else acted as fluffy as they could get in the given situation. I usually dislike tsundere characters but I'll make an exception here.
Coco: She was more like a multifunctional plot device, than a character. I mean I still don't know anything about her, even though the last route is technically hers. also, her extreme behaviour is rather creepy after a while, then funny.
-----Technical stuff, music and shit-----
Character CGs and the artwork is good. Nothing extraordinary but good. On the other hand, I'm torn on the music. The OP song is awesome, I've listened to it for hours and the two outro songs are alright as well. But the actual BGM is shallow and not exactly interesting to listen to. But hey, at least it's not annoying. :P
The translation is sometimes off and there are several mistakes and typos in it, even with the patch. Far from the notorious Mangagamer level but still.
You: Booooooooooooring. The romance is forced, there's almost nothing to find out about You's situation and shittons of infodump.
Sara: My favourite route out of the four initial routes. I didn't see the big reveal coming and as I said I kinda liked Sara.
Sora: The romance didn't worked for me, I've already told why. And seriously, that ending was so obvious from the start. The only surprise was the scene with the two Sora's involved. That was the only redemption for this route, to be honest.
Tsugumi: The only route that was able to touch me emotionally for real. I can't help it, I've got a weak spot for heroines with a dark past and/or with any kind of disorders (in her case, emotional disorder).And the romance between her and Takeshi was the only one that felt natural. Whay isn't this my favourite route then? Because the ending pissed me off so badly that I've almost deleted the game. Yeah, with the true end it makes sense and they get their well deserved happy ending. But I didn't know that when I finished this route.
True route: At first it was chaotic but I picked up the pace soon enough and from that point on it hooked me up until the very end. If the whole game was this exciting, I'd give it a 9 or 10.
-----The .rar File-----
With all its flaws, it's a great and clever story (with a few stupid scenes) and, thanks to the true route, it's actually a memorable experience. Still, I cannot overlook the high amount of boring infodump and the overstreched "prologue" (as in, the first four routes basically). All in all it's a solid 8/10.
|#28 by stomp|
2012-04-15 at 20:49
|Just a comment on the translation quality. Lots of spelling and grammatical errors. Many translation mistakes. The text was also americanized even though the characters are clearly Japanese and the story takes place in Japan. Stupid and unacceptable. There was obviously no editor. All in all a very unprofessional translation that ruins the game. VNs are literature after all.|
Such VNs are not worth paying for and apparently people didn't pay, which is why Hirameki went bankrupt.
The Remember 11 translation on the other hand is very good even though it's a fan translation. It isn't americanized. There are few translation errors and few grammatical and spelling errors.
|#29 by porchoky|
2012-04-22 at 02:32
|I think you'll often find fan-translations, be it anime subs or VN translations, are often of much higher quality than a commerical translation. I'm actually surprised no one has taken E17 and gone back and edited it all yet.|
|#30 by amorim|
2012-04-22 at 03:11
|^ There's a better script available. check link to download it.Last modified on 2012-04-22 at 03:11|
|#31 by stomp|
2012-04-22 at 19:14
|I played with that script. The original was even worse.|
|#32 by assassinator|
2012-04-23 at 07:30
I'm actually surprised no one has taken E17 and gone back and edited it all yet.
I was bored and had a look into that.
Currently there exists tools to both extract and build Ever17's data archives. However if you try to edit the extracted script files directly, shit fucks up unless you maintain exact string lengths, due to hard coded jump offsets and stuff.
Now our Russian friends who did the Russian E17 translation made this tool (part of AnimED), which can split those script files into little chunks and allows you to edit the chunks as you like (changing lengths and whatever), then you can use to tool to compile all the chunks back into the .SCR script file, with correct offsets.
Bad thing is, there's 84 script files, and each file splits into hundreds of chunks, making a total of around 19500 chunks. Good thing is, if you know how to program, making the machine scan through 19500 files and carry out search and replace operations is trivial.
EDIT: judging by the fact that some of the " ? " have been changed to " - " and others not, the other guy who fixed stuff earlier probably did it manually. Like holy shit, must have taken him 12311213 hours to find stuff.
I other words, I'm willing to fix shit I guess, if you guys give me error reports.
So what I will do is take error strings and write a script to scan through all 19500 chunks too find all matches, returning the exact locations in which they occur, then either manually fix it or if there's a fuckload of matches, I guess write another script to do that for me.Last modified on 2012-04-23 at 09:56
|#33 by billng|
2012-05-22 at 22:42
|Favourite part= Playing as chicks! |
Piyo piyo piyo pi
|#34 by porchoky|
2012-08-13 at 05:24
|Whoa, didn't know there was a fan-edited script. If I ever recommend E17 to someone I'll be sure to give them that as well. The official translation had errors for sure, but there weren't THAT many IIRC. |
Thought I'd share something I picked up at Anime Expo. A booth was selling tons of advertisement-type posters for obscure games, movies, idol groups, etc... I was flipping through them and was like, wait, KID? HOLY SH-. For $5 it was a steal.
It's about 20"x28"Last modified on 2012-08-13 at 05:25
|#35 by polymerase|
2012-10-24 at 05:26
|Recently finished, but I'm a bit curious as to what the original translation spoiled that was fixed in the revised script. I don't have any realistic way of seeing it in game without playing through it again, and the changelogs obviously don't say anything other than that there was a spoiler.|
|#36 by wingz00|
2012-11-08 at 02:04
|Barely finished, because my motto is save the best for the last.|
regarding from vndb ranking ever17 is stayed in top5 rating, in the last 4 years.
unfortunately it makes me had too much expectation, at result i didn't gave 10 points
(9 from me)
i only give 10 points to 3 title so far
ar tonelico 1,2 because its my first visual novel, so it makes great impact.
and g-senjou no maou
my reason is:
1. there is little unanswered question (in reader mind after ending, not the story)
2. too many repeated scene, make it boring and not enjoyable
3. the story is packed so that the reader thinking too much possibility, so when it's revealed the impact is not too strong
4. except the true ending, others rather meaningless
but i admit this is first class vn, the plot is very strong, and have very good emotion as well
-this is my personal opinion
|#37 by metaler|
2012-11-08 at 13:51
|I only agree with your second point. The story was fantastic, but I felt like there were many scenes which were unnecessary, and didn't add anything to the plot.|
That being said, read the true route if you haven't done so yet. It'll answer almost all of the game's major questions.
|#38 by bookwormotaku|
2012-11-08 at 17:09
|Here's my review if you're interested:|
|#39 by redsoxist|
2012-11-08 at 18:58
|I thought this vn definitely had some significant weaknesses in its attempted scientific explanations of various concepts like the cure virus, time travel and its effect on both in-game and extradimensional characters , but it still remains among my favorites primarily because the characters and their interactions were, for the most part, so enjoyable, with only exceptions being the Coco-centric scenes (I just could not bring myself to really care about this character in any meaningful way). In my experience, having a compelling cast of characters can easily overcome most deficiencies in plot elements and structure.|
Nonetheless, the true ending, while incredibly satisfying, seemed to have been left a little too open-ended. The fact that Takeshi as a "20-year old" Cure will end up long outliving his two 16-year old non-Cure children was left as somewhat of an afterthought. Another thing that bugged me was that, assuming that Tsugumi's route was the true sequence of events of 2017, rather than rushing to the defective submarine they could have stayed in the IBF after Lemu collapsed and be safe for up to 17 years, which would probably be more than long enough to figure out a way for both of them to safely get the hell out of there .
One last thing I noticed about this vn was that half of the major characters of Ever17 share the same voice actors as some of the major characters in Fate/Stay Night including Tsugumi/Rider, Sara/Rin, and You/Sakura. Depending on the order that these two fantastic vn's were read, it's kind of difficult, when reading one vn, not to think of the character sharing the same voice in the other vn.
|#40 by cmrevolution|
2013-10-27 at 17:18
|I've first started reading Ever17 back in 2007 or so, and due to certain circumstances I've postponed reading it to this day, but it's safe to say that this VN aged quite well, a great sci-fi romance story for any fan of the medium.|
As some of you have said already, it utilizes the storytelling options that the VN medium has to offer in a great way, and it's still something that is rarely done in such a degree, it's practically impossible to convey such a story in the form of anime or manga.
I didn't really find the buildup and the "side routes" to be boring, and they were fairly enjoyable more or less (less in the case of You's and Sara's routes), and they served a great purpose of building the atmosphere to the climax which culminated in Coco's route.
Luckily, I avoided all spoilers circulating around before actually reading the novel, and had some interesting guesses before the facts got revealed. It didn't seem impossible to me that everything that happened in LeMu was some sort of computer simulation of sorts made by Sara and her club friends, which would explain how she "inserts" herself among the cast instead of Coco, or that the story would make more of the Himmel and Lemmih symbolism, perhaps even introducing a central antagonist figure, and once some critical facts were revealed, there was no more place for speculating such theories. I blame the foreshadowing, it did a great job (THAT COSMIC WHALE ROOM), at times it was painfully obvious, but at other times it also threw the reader off the course, implying other possibilities and such.
The only real downside to Ever17 is how things got resolved in Coco's route, in the very end of it. The route in itself was really great, I enjoyed it immensely, but I can't help the feel the writing took a nosedive in the end run. Magical resolutions everywhere, Takeshi and You hearing voices in their heads was almost comical, and the way things played out is almost surreal compared to what the game built up until that point, not to mention how BW's role in the entire affair seemed almost prosaic.
Despite this, I've really enjoyed reading this VN, and it's hardly surprising that it's among the best rated titles here. Looking forward to reading some Remember11 next.Last modified on 2013-10-27 at 17:22
|#41 by roflcopters|
2013-11-02 at 16:25
|Well I finally finished this. Remember11 was better judging from the English translated versions. This could just be one of those things where the first one you read seems better; however, I had originally started reading this nearly a year ago and gave up, but I had read all of remember11 in about 3 days. The ending left me sort of satisfied: Remember11's ending was better.Last modified on 2013-11-02 at 16:26|
|#42 by katzy07|
2013-11-02 at 16:45
Remember 11 -> it had an ending?
This story is not finished yet.
Truth Is not revealed.
And it circulates through an incident.
--It is an Infinity Loop!
I liked the ambiguity, but not the effort it took to even figure out what the hell was going on. Admittedly I wasn't dedicated enough to get all the bad endings, but I have a feeling that even if I had, I would have had to look up the explanation online to understand anything. In that sense, remember 11 somewhat let me down. I only like stories with hidden depth if they can be enjoyed without even knowing that hidden depth is there. I find it annoying when a story waves around "I know something you don't know" in your face like that. But otherwise I agree that as whole it's a better work.
So for me Best overall reading experience = Remember 11. Much more polished game, better music (IMO) and the writing was a lot tighter. Less meaningless fluff.
Best Ending = ever17. Amazing in the sense that it made all that fluff actually mean something. Uses way out there sci-fi, but presents it in a way that's followable without any sorta guide. and somehow it managed to make a believable (more or less) happy ending out of what seemed like a stream of tragedies. That's not easy to do.
Also I'm not going to lie, I like Tsugumi. My first tsundre... sigh... good times.
note: edited to display the proper remember11 loop message.Last modified on 2013-11-02 at 18:42
|#43 by roflcopters|
2013-11-02 at 17:19
|Yeah, the music was much better and I was currently listening to this as I read your comment. I made sure to get all the bad ends as I started reading because someone told me to (they said it would help with understanding, which it did). I preferred the "figure it out for yourself because we're not going to tell you approach," probably helped that I had just recently finished reading umineko. I will admit that the physics in remember11 is a bit dodgy and being a second year physics student (doesn't count for much I know but whatever) it was pretty obvious. And yeah.. I should have expected that ending comment to come and bite my ass.|
|#44 by albedo|
2013-11-02 at 17:25
|Problem with Remember 11 was that some bad ends did help you understand the story better (like the one where you drank that glass of water and opening the door or something right at the end). But most of them were just dead ends, and there were a shitload of them.|
|#45 by adormus|
2015-04-21 at 09:20
|Despite all the plotholes I enjoyed this one. But there's one thing that irritates me like nothing else. It's Tsumugi and You in Coco's Route.|
Why the hell is Tsugumi fine with the developement? You basically sacrificed her children. Their childhood has been hell. She wasn't able to see them for 15 years. You could've stopped Leiblich a decade earlier, but didn't do it, because she wanted to save that annoying brat and Takeshi. I'd claw her eyes out in such a case. I love my wife and would do almost anything in order to save her. But leaving my daugther miserable and in the hands of Mengele himself for a decade? Screw that. Not to mention that Tsugumi was forced to relive the crap in LemU again. Or that You even risked the life of her children in that case. You'd expect her to at least shout at You....[spoiler]
Oh yeah, the translation of german terms was hilarious. Although it was way better than in similar works. But there's a plot device that was flawed because of it. Only [spoiler]Americans use that horrible mm/dd/yy format. In Germany it's a simple dd/mm/yy. I still knew it was 2034 the second they mentioned the date, though. So it may not be that bad.[spoiler]
|#46 by suzukaze|
2015-04-21 at 11:25
|I remember hearing there was some sort of date plothole caused by a jp-en mistranslation.|
|#47 by loctar87|
2015-04-22 at 06:08
|@45 Well, to be fair, You (older) was basically being thrown out out into a world where Leiblich was still in charge, a deadly virus was spreading, she'd just become immortal and therefore a target, and everyone she had just grown attached to faced an uncertain future or was presumed dead. And then some God-like being comes along and guarantees her a happy ending for her, her daughter, and her friends if she just follows it's orders. It's not a bad deal. Tsugumi's children might have died in some other timeline for that matter.Last modified on 2015-04-22 at 06:09|
|#48 by adormus|
2015-04-22 at 09:35
|^ I think you slightly misunderstood my post. It wasn't about You's actions, but about Tsugumi's reaction.|
While You's actions were questionable at best, from her POV (that's btw the correct translation of Blickwinkel) it's understandable. She's only human and was in love with Takeshi. My problem is how Tsugumi handles it. Especially after seeing the reunion CG with her children again, her reaction to the truth feels...underwhelming or rather inexistant. There's nothing left of the strong willed woman, they depicted all the time.
|#49 by gundamace|
2015-04-22 at 12:02
|I think you're misunderstanding the climax if you've come to that conclusion.|
The whole point about BW's plan is that none of the events that happened in those 17 years could be changed. Everything that BW had "seen", including everyone's pasts, was set in stone and could not be changed, otherwise it would have created a time paradox that would have caused the whole thing to collapse on itself. Otherwise, all the characters in 2034 would have had to be extremely talented actors to pull off everything in the 2034 incident exactly as BW had seen it, and you can't expect BW to have relayed every single action in every single route to You"haru". Plus, even if, by some miracle, You"haru" could have helped Tsugumi, that would have just made her a much easier target for Leiblich and the plan would probably be stopped before it could ever be commenced. After all, that's why You"haru" had them hold off on leaking the TB/Leiblich connection until after the incident had ended- if it'd been done beforehand, too much could have happened that would have resulted in Takeshi and Coco not being saved or the plan being unable to commence, meaning BW couldn't have relayed everything to You"haru", meaning that'd just create another paradox.
You appear to believe that You"haru" could have saved Tsugumi, Sara, and Hokuto if she'd wanted to, but didn't, when the truth is that You"haru" couldn't have saved Tsugumi and her children even if she'd wanted to. Otherwise, like I said, the plan would have failed and the whole stable time loop would have collapsed, creating a time paradox that would've negated the entire story (and everyone would have suffered even worse fates otherwise). Tsugumi understood that at the end, and that's why she held no grudge against You"haru" (a fact that is made even clearer in the post-game Drama CDs).
|#50 by adormus|
2015-04-22 at 12:10
|I don't think I misunderstood that. The problem however is, that The whole story is a time paradox in itself. So argueing with it is kinda useless. For You'haru to be there in 2034 when BW leaves LemU she has to know about the plan. But how could she know about it if BW didn't tell her? And how could BW tell her the plan if she wasn't there in 2034? You get the picture, I guess. Therefore it's a simple breakdown on emotions, not causality, because there is no causality in this VN at all.|
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