Why are there so many crappy oelvn
|#1 by periah250|
2019-05-03 at 23:00
|Oelvn (original english language visual novels)|
I cant be the only one to have seen this. You either find a game with creepy 3D models or a game with art that seems like a drunk toddler drew it. Not all english vns are bad. We had DDLC and a handful of others. But its gotten to the point that unless the title has a clear japanese title or a title that is obviously translated from japanese i dont even bother checking. Is there a reason other than its easy to make vns? Should vndb even bother cataloguing such obviously bad games? I know bad is opinionated but i cant imagine anyone has looked at many of the oelvns and thought they were worth checking out.Last modified on 2019-05-03 at 23:01
|#2 by minah|
2019-05-03 at 23:09
waah how dare other people make games for audiences that aren't me
These threads are so tiresome.
|#3 by usagi|
2019-05-03 at 23:32
|There are lots of good OELVNs. How can you know that they are crappy - if you don't even bother to check? It's one of common misconceptions about this genre. I admit it was more or less true couple of years ago. Now situation changed. There are lot of decent oelvns appeared - mostly incest nukiges though. Still, they are on par or even better than japanese analogues. If you don't like nukiges - it's another matter. However vndb always payed attention to nukige genre - and will be doing it in future too - cause there are lots of people who loves it.|
|#4 by natsulamune|
2019-05-03 at 23:47
|Because LGBTQ and Feminists realize that Japan don't dance after their whistle.|
|#5 by tvloicence|
2019-05-04 at 00:42
|Probably because the market for them isn't as big.|
Japanese Visual Novels are made for a very specific audience and have years of "tradition" behind them, for lack of a better word. Most Western Visual Novels are indie projects made to mimic a lot of that "tradition", so you go from the already niche demographic of people who want to read words go by on a screen accompanied by an anime girl to the niche-er audience of people who know of that medium, are english-speakers, and would want a western product made in that style. And since a lot of them are the effort of a handful of guys who aren't really gaining much by it there's really no surprise they're mostly ass.
If you start considering western narrative-driven games(like ye olde David Cage moviegame) "our" equivalent of VNs you'll see why the quality goes way up: because they have none of the cultural "baggage" and can appeal to more mainstream audiences, even if the contents are... what moviegames usually are.
That said the 20 minute-long high-schooler Ren'Py projects where you date President Obama or some shit are a bit ridiculous in their sheer volume. I wonder how people even find out about these.
|#6 by periah250|
2019-05-04 at 03:20
|#4....the hell does that even mean?|
#5 i think the ones where you date obama or such are meme games but what i'm specifically interested in are the weird creepy 3D ones that it seems the creator wants to be taken seriously. or the the ones where it looks like an original thing but the art and story are so bad that its not even worth the time to check out.
|#7 by funnerific|
2019-05-04 at 03:32
|Well there are even more shitty nukige or creepy doujins so it's not just an OELVN problem. Like with any free medium, there are no filters, so everyone can put something forth, even if they have zero sense or taste. Or if, you know, their target audience is not you.|
|#8 by dk382|
2019-05-04 at 04:04
|Due to the language barrier, oelvns are much more visible to the english community than Japanese doujins, but there are definitely a very large number of Japanese VNs with absurdly bad art made by random teenagers over a weekend. There are far more of those than there are commercial VNs with halfway decent production values.|
#5 i think the ones where you date obama or such are meme games but what i'm specifically interested in are the weird creepy 3D ones that it seems the creator wants to be taken seriously. or the the ones where it looks like an original thing but the art and story are so bad that its not even worth the time to check out.The 3D ones are all just nukige, generally. There's a surprisingly big audience for them that is, by and large, disconnected from the regular VN community. These were people who were into 3D porn and then found out you can sell that stuff on Steam if you deliver the smut in VN form. A few of them also have successful patreons.Last modified on 2019-05-04 at 04:05
|#9 by sakurakoi|
2019-05-04 at 04:34
Due to the language barrier, oelvns are much more visible to the english community than Japanese doujinsIt's not due to the language barrier but because some many really like to add each and every OELVN to vndb at/before release (showing up in the upcoming/just released list on the homepage) and with screenshots (showing up in assortment), even if they are indeed disconnected from the regular VN community.
A big community is bound to having some fanatics (which also make them visible otherwise) and I'd say vndb would have much less traffic if not even a more "successful" alternative if one could not filter those out by default.
It'd be no surprise if an international Japanese internet user (equally visiting English and Japanese sites) were to encounter much more crappy OELVN than crappy Japanese doujins. The western creator is much more likely to be like "I made this turd, praise me or rather, gimme money!".
Meanwhile they also have high quality doujins which are not drowned in literal dung. Whether it is dlsite selling them and giving better selling more visibility or crappy creators much less likely to present their turds on comiket and alike just to face, literary, criticism and terrible sales while losing a lot of money (just to feel ashamed).
|#10 by tvloicence|
2019-05-04 at 04:34
|#6 No, I know they're jokes, I just think it's a bit much. I had to say *something* to finish off that incoherent mess I ended up writing.|
I mean, at least the ugly pre-rendered CGI games were made with some intention of being good even if whether they really achieve that or not is dubious at best.
Like I said before, I'm sure it's a matter of the west lacking any real Big Boy Companies™ working in the medium more than anything else. The work of a couple of people in their spare time is just not going to be comparable to the work of a dedicated staff, on average. Doujin circles are much more well-organized than the average ragtag group of internet Artistes that usually end up composing the staff of western VNs because, again, there's a certain tradition there. They know how to go about these things.
If it gives you any hope, The Letter is a game that's above and beyond the production values you would expect from an OELVN. It's fully voiced and everything. I didn't personally enjoy the story much but it's impressive if nothing else.
|#11 by bobjr2000|
2019-05-04 at 05:34
|its funny to me I probably have more in common with Oelvn fans despite not like these games/vn rather than vn fans. I think the appeal isn't really related to vn as much as it is porn/cartoon porn appeal. Its not a new fetish but people like this porn and its in their native language vs japanese so makes sense like any porn that is well received will get more of it. As some one said above know for fact that are very popular on other sites and doubt most people even really know what a vn is so most not really trying to compete or compare to what might be consider a quality vnLast modified on 2019-05-04 at 05:35|
|#12 by diabloryuzaki|
2019-05-04 at 05:36
|crappy oelvn appear to fight japanese vn with their originality like adult art (said the oelvn creator) and some work hard to write scenarios. the problem is oelvn boom is too half ass in many aspect and in the most of the pattern they always ask money or resource support first before they finish first project. but the most creepy part is they always advertise in "general" vn community where in there you will found japanese reader only, english reader only and japanese-english reader. of course backlash for it will fierce enough for oelvn developer like how some people said that sekai project is junk no matter what kind of vn that they will translated in the future|
|#13 by eltonan|
2019-05-04 at 06:00
|To answer ops original question, I believe it's mostly due to Western developers arriving late to the vn scene. Visual novel were always a niche in the West, up until Steam releases of translated vn's cause them to skyrocket in popularity. After that more English developers and other opportunists wanted to cash in to the largely untapped market but most of them have never created a vn before in their lives, so their works are almost always going to be inferior to Japanese developers who being making vn's for years.|
It's like the saying goes: You can't out rice the Chinese and you can't out VN the Japanese.
|#14 by ginseigou|
2019-05-04 at 06:07
|Because you can always make a quick buck on Patreon without putting too much effort. The oelvn creators don't have to bother with voice acting, people will still buy. Some unfinished oelvns make much more money than expensive Japanese vns with greater overall qualities.Last modified on 2019-05-04 at 06:09|
|#15 by pabloc|
2019-05-04 at 08:23
|I don't think art is the main issue with OELVNs. I mean, there's stuff like Higurashi out there. It's a doujin VN with drunk-toddler level of artwork, and yet it didn't stop it from becoming very popular. :P|
And sure, there are tons of crappy JP doujins out there, but then there are gems like Narcissu - an amateur title with good story, solid artwork, fine music and even voice acting. And it's freeware. No OELVN comes even remotely close to that level, while many can beat the worst JP abominations in overall garbageness. (And I'm being generous here and don't even mention non-doujin, "AAA" JP VNs...)
One big issue with OELVNs is that many of them are made by weebs for weebs. That is - they aren't written by people who want to tell their stories using VN as a medium. They are made by people who want to create a Japanese VN, and story or art come as an afterthought. And that's a very good recipe for absolute thrash.
OELVNs should try to be more like The Adventures of Prince Ivan, or Lovecraft: Beyond the Wall of Sleep. No forced amine-style artwork, no unnecessary weebness, and most importantly - competent writing (yes, I'm kinda cheating here since those are literary adaptations :P). They don't pretend to be Japanese, they just do their own thing - and do it quite well.
That said, there's one issue with that approach. Audience with an affinity for barely interactive reading "games" is already taken by JP VNs and is used to their style, tropes, sexual content etc.. Something that's completely different will struggle to gain any recognition - especially when it's getting buried by tons of worthless OELVN garbage. When I have to choose to spend my very limited free time on reading SubaHibi, Muramasa, Sayooshi, Baldr etc., or an OELVN, the latter will have a very hard time winning me over. :PLast modified on 2019-05-04 at 08:25
|#16 by natsulamune|
2019-05-04 at 10:03
|#6 "Don't dance after their whistle" is the english translation for the german phrase: "Nicht nach ihrer Pfeiffe tanzen".|
|#17 by dk382|
2019-05-04 at 10:31
|I took a look at the tag Pre-rendered 3D Graphics, and you know what? This IS a lot of releases. Like, holy crap. link Look at all that shit in April ALONE.|
I'm looking at screenshots for a lot of these, and I'm seeing some shared assets, even between games from different developers. Some of them are solo projects. I wonder if there's a popular shared asset library somewhere they're all pulling from. That would make easier to make a VN in this style, while also greatly diminishing the variety and average quality.
Also, lmao: Leaf on FireLast modified on 2019-05-04 at 10:32
|#18 by kiru|
2019-05-04 at 10:33
|@15: Honestly, your post sounds like you have not much of an idea about what you are saying. I mean, I can't blame you. But if even I can immediately think of plenty of good works, that can rival the better Japanese doujin works, then that's not a good sign. I've read maybe a handful of them, which is nothing in comparison to the JP stuff I know.|
If you look past the surface, there's a lot of interesting stuff to be found. The surface may be showing a lot of crappy stuff, but that's the exact same with JP VNs. Search and you will find. It's not going to be for everyone, but alas, that's how it is with stuff that goes a little past the typical mainstream.
edit: I guess you can say that OELVNs are bad at the typical mainstream stuff though, in comparison. That's probably true. Not like I really know, as I never tried those.Last modified on 2019-05-04 at 10:35
|#19 by kratoscar2008|
2019-05-04 at 10:56
They use DAZ 3D and yeah many sticks with the base models which is why they are so common.
Im pretty sad with the state of Oelvns, its rare to find 2d ones with decent art, most of the ones that have are usually female MC or have NTR.
Will be a while before the medium evooves, moreso with the current Patreon scam model.
Im looking forward for Dragon Date, Faulty Apprentice and Lunchtime Games CLub. Those are a decent start.Last modified on 2019-05-04 at 10:58
|#20 by pabloc|
2019-05-04 at 12:30
But if even I can immediately think of plenty of good works, that can rival the better Japanese doujin works, then that's not a good sign.For example?
Among Japanese doujins there's stuff with massive storylines like Higurashi or Umineko, stuff with no story but excellent production values like Neko Para Vol.1 Soleil Kaiten Shimashita!, stuff that's good overall like Narcissu Side 2nd, entire series that's pretty much as good as fluffy Yuri genre can get (Sono Hanabira ni Kuchizuke o), and even a fully animated title like Rondo Duo -Yoake no Fortissimo- Punyu Puri ff. That's a pretty diverse range of titles that are quite good at what they do, be it a complex story, pretty visuals or hot ero. And those titles are more or less on the surface. Are there any OELVNs that can match those (when it comes to their respective strong sides of course, it's not hard to beat Nekopara in the storyline department XD)?
Sure - if you dig deeper and go through piles of garbage, you'll eventually find some interesting stuff (like the OELVNs I mentioned earlier). But that's the point - you have to do some solid digging. And even then, you don't really find Nekopara-level visuals or Umineko-level massive plot. At least I haven't found anything comparable.
Now, there might be some good stuff among OELVN otome games (and yaoi?). I have very little experience with these genres, so I certainly might be missing something there.Last modified on 2019-05-04 at 12:31
|#21 by chronopolize|
2019-05-04 at 20:29
|Every OELVN producer puts their game on vndb, whereas there are tons of indie vn's on freem that aren't added to vndb.|
VN making in japan seems to attract the more dedicated crowd. If you want shitty JP stuff, go to narou lol.Last modified on 2019-05-04 at 20:31
|#22 by butterflygrrl|
2019-05-04 at 20:59
|Not only are there untold numbers of free amateur JVNs that don't get added, I've often found games on dlsite that aren't listed here. It seems like no one's making a dedicated effort to add them, while the 3d patreon porn devs are intentionally listing themselves here as advertising.|
@pabloc If you're looking for EVN yuri have you tried Highway Blossoms, A Little Lily Princess, and Heart of the Woods?
|#23 by ramaladni|
2019-05-04 at 22:09
|Rather than talking about the crappy OELVN, I'm actually more interested in knowing what are the ones worth playing.|
@22: Because 5 min troll games are allowed in the database but eroge with a few gameplay elements aren't. No point in arguing with the administration either.
|#24 by usagi|
2019-05-04 at 22:19
Rather than talking about the crappy OELVN, I'm actually more interested in knowing what are the ones worth playing.All Ebi-hime catalogue is worthy to look into IMO. If anything - developers such as this is what making this genre worthy to exist.
|#25 by lunaterra|
2019-05-04 at 23:31
|A selection of EVNs I've rated 8 or higher:|
80 Days (my one and only 10 vote)
Digital: A Love Story
Once on a Windswept Night
Soundless - A Modern Salem in Remote Area -
The Sad Story of Emmeline Burns
Heaven Will Be Mine
Her Tears Were My Light
Lake of Voices
Scrambled: Syd City
Six Days of Snow
The Window Box
Three Guys That Paint
'Til Cows Tear Us Apart
We Know the Devil
But sure, EVNs are all soulless imitations of JVNs or cheap 3D porn...
I don't expect anybody else to like all the VNs on this list, but if you honestly can't find any redeeming qualities in any of these, idk what to say to you.
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