Are these VNs Doujins?

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#1 by natsulamune
2019-05-05 at 16:01
Are all of the following VNs Doujins?

- Fault Milestone
- Moonshine (Gesshou Tsuki no Terasu)
- Butterfly Affection
- Visions from the other Side (Mokou no Yume)Last modified on 2019-05-05 at 17:22
#2 by natsulamune
2019-05-05 at 16:57
I want to know the difference between Doujin and OJLVN.
#3 by shiny
2019-05-05 at 17:19
Straight from the vndb FAQ:
"Doujin: Published by a doujin circle, amateur group or individual, as opposed to a legal entity such as a company."
So there you have it.
Are all of the following VNs Doujins?
Rule of thumb, if it doesn't have a JAN code (usually noted on the official website) then it's a doujin game. Seems to me all of these are doujin.

I want to know the difference between Doujin and OJLVN.
OJLVN is a English acronym and doujin a Japanese loanword but they both refer to the same thing. (Unless I'm wrong, I'm not familiar with the OELVN scene)
#4 by ramaladni
2019-05-05 at 17:24
I have never seen the term "OJLVN", only "JVN", but I assume it refers to any work originally created in the Japanese language, doujin or not.
#5 by dk382
2019-05-06 at 03:07
Likewise, EVN or OELVN refers to any work originally created in the English language, "doujin"/indie or not. A theoretical big budget, original english VN would still be an oelvn.

I also have never seen the term "OJLVN" before. Seems silly.
#6 by natsulamune
2019-05-06 at 10:27
Meanwhile I know that an OELVN/O(whatver except of japanese)LVN can't be a Doujin whatever if it was produced by a big company or by a amateur single person/group.

But what about japanese VNs? The 4 VNs I listed in OP are Doujins without any doubts. Also Doujin not automatically means Freeware. But what about VNs which started as Doujin-Projects, but in the following years the producer company grows? Are they still Doujins then?
#7 by sakurakoi
2019-05-06 at 11:03
but in the following years the producer company grows?
All that matters is that the creating entity is registered as company. Amateurs groups are simply freelancers/independent contractors banding together. There are many things at once which change if your doujin group becomes a company and it is not a matter of growth but a matter of state. Products as well are registered differently. If you are into business, well, of that country, you can easily search for the required information and tell. Like already said, there is a JAN code, or there is not.

And no one said anything about doujin always being freeware, or that that an OELVN ain't one if the budget is big enough. Budget does not matter, legal status does and one can very well have a proper company with one person. Though not rarely it's better for them to just be a freelancer.
#8 by pabloc
2019-05-06 at 11:44
Meanwhile I know that an OELVN/O(whatver except of japanese)LVN can't be a Doujin whatever if it was produced by a big company or by a amateur single person/group.
Think of doujins as a JP equivalent of indie games. So yeah, there are no "doujin" OELVNs, but that's only because we simply label them as "indie".
DLSite doesn't have a problem with including western indie games in their doujin section though (case in point - link (NSFW) - an amateur game made in Canada).

As for the second question - the "doujin" status depends on the publisher of a specific release. Take Higurashi for example. The original release (r256) is a doujin self-published by the circle that developed it (07th Expansion), while PS2 version (r1679) isn't a doujin - it was published by a proper Japanese company, Alchemist. Same for the English release (r48354) - it was published by a company (MangaGamer), so it's not considered doujin/indie.
So if a doujin circle decided to register itself as a proper company, then their following works would be considered non-doujin releases. I think their older releases would still remain doujins though, since their publisher wasn't registered as a company back when they were released.
#9 by eacil
2019-05-06 at 11:49
You can be a circle and have a JAN on your product.
Case in point, the next Orcsoft (4562370436255).
Fata morgana no Yakata (yes, the windows version) has a JAN (4520424251575) but... they are not listed as doujin on getchu. Go figure.

I don't know what would forbid developers of doujins to have one if they wanted to. I assume it's more about if you sell your product with retailers. I see Orcsoft and Noveltacle are selling on mamazon and I believe you must have a code of some sort with them (JAN if you are Japanese). If you try the two JAN I gave you, you will find them on mamazon.
#10 by shiny
2019-05-06 at 19:28
^ Good point about Orcsoft. Guess it's a good thing I wrote "rule of thumb" because there are bound to be exceptions. On their website they state that they are a CSA加盟済み商業同人エロゲー会社 - which is just ??? to me because I fell "doujin company" is such an oxymoron, but it's a fact that these "commercial doujin" entities have been popping up more & more muddling the divide between the two. I can see why - you avoid the hassle of setting up a legal entity & maintaining an office & just treat yourself as a freelancer, subcontracting other freelancers instead of hiring employees, and with the rising popularity of online shopping & DL sales "traditional" eroge retailers like Sofmap are losing leverage against the likes of DLsite and Melonbooks. Eroge are not like books where having access to commercial distribution channels (countrywide bookshop chains etc) actually makes a significant difference in outreach because it's a niche industry from the start.

Acquiring the right to issue JAN codes is dirty cheap (10,500JPY, valid for 3 years) and the guidelines stress that it's available to individuals, not only companies - so it's not and end-all be-all indicator but it works as a baseline. In the end I feel like it boils down to the stance of the people making the games - whether they consider themselves professionals and how serious they are about making a profit.

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