will you buy it?

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#76 by yimw
2011-03-04 at 11:25
< report >Your conspiracy theory is unfounded and quite frankly insane. Besides, Mangagamer didn't make the decision to remove voices, Nexton did.
#77 by saberger
2011-03-04 at 11:31
< report >
Besides, Mangagamer didn't make the decision to remove voices, Nexton did.

And your points? Nexton can do it and win, then Circus can do it and win, then Minori can do it and win. Now enjoy your Ef without voices or whatever [insert random feature] unless it could sell more than 10000 copies? Happy?

unfounded and quite frankly insane

Where?Last modified on 2011-03-04 at 11:31
#78 by yorhel
2011-03-04 at 11:44
< report >Well, more like you have a strong sense of distrust. MG are doing what they can and I trust them to take the most sensible action given the circumstances they are in. I'm sure they'll realize they won't be able to do a similar thing too often, it won't always work and they don't want to lose their already small customer base.

In fact, even if they didn't do this now, what guarantee do you have that they wouldn't do it in the future? Actually, why are you expecting a company to provide any guarantees when they are already having a hard time just surviving.
#79 by yimw
2011-03-04 at 11:46
< report >My point is you keep bashing Mangagamer when it wasn't their fault.

Where?
That speculation was predicted by combining MG's prestige/reknown/reputation as an online vendor and a professional translation group, with their decisions and treatments for customers in the past.
If I'm deciphering this correctly the only basis for your "theory" is that you dislike the company.
#80 by saberger
2011-03-04 at 12:07
< report >
Well, more like you have a strong sense of distrust. MG are doing what they can and I trust them to take the most sensible action given the circumstances they are in. I'm sure they'll realize they won't be able to do a similar thing too often, it won't always work and they don't want to lose their already small customer base.


Fair enough, it's a good point. Subjective opinion. Though I must repeat, in the present, and in the past, they were not and are not that kind, so I don't think they'll change in the future.

In fact, even if they didn't do this now, what guarantee do you have that they wouldn't do it in the future? Actually, why are you expecting a company to provide any guarantees when they are already having a hard time just surviving.

You don't need a poor person provides guarantee that he/she will not commit illegal activities when he/she is already having a hard time just surviving. They'll go to jail if they do that.

If MG want to appeal to more customers, and have a good impression in our minds, then they should do what's best for them, and they are the only on who could know what path they must follow. Apparently, they did it wrong.

If they don't do this today, and do it in the future, then we have the exact same thread in the future, too.

My point is you keep bashing Mangagamer when it wasn't their fault.

Who's fault is it then? Both Nexton and MG, perhaps? I don't believe that the negotiation went through in 1 day, they must have talked with each other for a long time, and they should have announced it when the negotiation began, not when the whole thing is already in motion.4

Beside, they were the one who do the marketing. They were the one who sell the product. They must ensure that I, as their customer, entitled to recieve a product as its original state. Nexton weren't responsible for any of the two. If Nexton were, then I bash them instead.

If I'm deciphering this correctly the only basis for your "theory" is that you dislike the company.

Of course, I hate the company. But why? I don't go out and hate you for no reason whatsoever. And I must state, I was being too lenient. You still haven't said what is unfounded and insane about my speculation though.Last modified on 2011-03-04 at 12:10
#81 by yorhel
2011-03-04 at 12:27
< report >
Though I must repeat, in the present, and in the past, they were not and are not that kind,
Really? So far MG has really been listening to their customers and they have changed considerably since they started.

Apparently, they did it wrong.
Currently the only indication of them doing anything "wrong" is a single user (you) complaining about their actions. If that's all they "lost" with this strategy then it was definitely not a bad one.

When I say I trust them to take the most sensible action given their circumstances, I implied that I assume MG have thought about it and decided that what they are doing now is the best course of action.
#82 by pendelhaven
2011-03-04 at 12:29
< report >Or maybe its just Kouryuu who's just doing "it"?
#83 by beliar
2011-03-04 at 12:40
< report >*Sigh* Saberger is looking more and more like Fujifruit - they both engage in useless discussions why (insert company name X sucks). Only the former does it with MangaGamer, the latter - with JAST. The annoying thing is they do it in threads, dedicated to completely different subject.
Maybe you shouldn't hijack a thread about buying Koihime Musou and instead create a new one named "How (insert company name of your choice) made me a sad puppy"? Fodder for the thought, no?
#84 by saberger
2011-03-04 at 12:41
< report >
Really? So far MG has really been listening to their customers and they have changed considerably since they started.

Until they release all the patchs for all games to fix all the translation errors, which are too stupid or too out of context, then I will not be happy. I paid for those thing, I'm entitled to have my customers support.

And I don't think they listen to fans, either. More like they want to make profit, but it's business, so it's not ethically wrong.

Beside:
they must have talked with each other for a long time, and they should have announced it when the negotiation began, not when the whole thing is already in motion

Not for fans. Manipulatings sales.

Currently the only indication of them doing anything "wrong" is a single user (you) complaining about their actions. If that's all they "lost" with this strategy then it was definitely not a bad one.

That's fine by me. I know I can't change anything, but I just felt like to voice my concerns and opinions.

When I say I trust them to take the most sensible action given their circumstances, I implied that I assume MG have thought about it and decided that what they are doing now is the best course of action.

No,Not I, but

Fair enough, it's a good point. Subjective opinion

@pendel
2011-03-04 at 12:29 Or maybe its just Kouryuu who's just doing "it"?

Force you. Where is the " you shouldn't worry about minor details" picture of yours?

@beliar

No, I give proper support and reasonings.And for your records, I am not the one who started the whole thing. Others were.

Not hating you or anything though. I always remebered your Sin remark.Last modified on 2011-03-04 at 12:44
#85 by beliar
2011-03-04 at 12:52
< report >What Sin remark? *Looks at his post log* Oh, that one. Strange you remember something even I forgot.
P.S. Cant't wait to get my... hands on Sin.
#86 by dacasa
2011-03-04 at 13:28
< report >SUMMARY:
Saber think MG's wrong/filthy/unreliable because stuff they did in the past. Just like people think germans are bad because of the stuff they did in the past.
If Saber doesn't agree with this, but says that he thinks MG is wrong because of their marketing strategy, then he's actually discussing against himself.

The other people think MG did a good thing because MG does bring vns translated and all towards the west. Or maybe they just like their stuff/games.

Now before we get posts with 1000+ words, I suggest we all stop with pointing out small stuff in each others posts (your argument is invalid, I have a windmill in my beard) and just accept (mostly) Sabers opinion.

(he really can't help it, his hatred is bigger then Chuck Norris' fists)Last modified on 2011-03-04 at 13:29
#87 by yorhel
2011-03-04 at 13:38
< report >Meh, I made an attempt to understand sabergers hate towards MG, in order to find out whether all the posts on it were justified. But unfortunately he hasn't managed to convince me of that (in fact, the more this gets discussed the more it looks like he had unrealistic expectations to begin with and is now nitpicking on things). So I agree, any more on this topic is a waste.
#88 by pendelhaven
2011-03-04 at 15:04
< report >@sab:

where exactly did I worry about the minor details? anyway, what I meant was that Kouryuu was the only one in MG whose doing the right thing (whatever you perceive in this).
#89 by surferdude
2011-03-04 at 15:31
< report >Hey guys, MangaGamer just announced that they licensed 5 new games! Unfortunately, none of them will have the character sprites because they couldn't afford to pay the guys who drew them. But don't worry, the games are still perfectly playable, it's just that you won't see the characters when they talk.

My point is, the Japanese Koihime Musou is voiced in all its versions afaik, so MG is basically selling an incomplete product. If they couldn't afford to license the entire game, they should have just ignored it and licensed a different game instead. It's not like there aren't any other H-games that would be popular in the west. Selling your games in bits and pieces is not a respectable way to do business.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go pour some more gasoline on the fire...
#90 by yorhel
2011-03-04 at 15:55
< report >I thought I already said that any more on this topic is a waste.
#91 by azathoth
2011-03-04 at 16:00
< report >
Hey guys, MangaGamer just announced that they licensed 5 new games! Unfortunately, none of them will have the character sprites because they couldn't afford to pay the guys who drew them. But don't worry, the games are still perfectly playable, it's just that you won't see the characters when they talk.
It seems like you haven't read it too closely. They also clearly state that the backgrounds were too much of a hassle to get so they didn't get those either. Same with the text box.
So basically we have an extremely good and satisfying game with amazing soundtrack and a very erotic box with options pops up when you click on your esc button. But sadly, due to some minor technical difficulties, the text is written in Russian.
MangaGamer sincerely apologizes for that.Last modified on 2011-03-04 at 16:04
#92 by kaetokiha
2011-03-04 at 17:43
< report >
You could agree or disagree with me, that's your right, but even then, you can not defy my logic. So your love for MG is just that small? You can not defend it with logical reasoning and resort to petty method?
Why would i try to "defy" your statements that are just based in your own ideas?
I don't need to do that because is obvious you won't listen to anything cause you just hate them.

Edit: and if you read my posts again, there's not much of hatred in them. One of them is a fact, and one of them is hypothesis. Pwned (?)
What?
If i'm not wrong, you already said in this topic you hate MG, for me your statements are just affirming this because you what are saying has nothing good or informative for anyone here...you just HATE THEM.

You may find it easy to forgive them, but I can't. This is something which I can not forget or forgive.

You say that you can't forgive them for this matter with Koihime, but you alaredy said that you hate them because something with Da Capo 2 and won't buy anything more from MG...

1. I hate MG after playing DC 2
2. I'm in pinch this month
3. Demonbane will be released next month
4. The game looks like a rip-off of Rance

You know what I'll do.
so i think you are just looking for excuses to criticize them as much you can.

1. there's a rumor that the man who did the patch gave up, now you must wait for someone to fix all the crashing and bugging of the patch
A rumor?
4 days after the release and you are complaining that the patch is buggy?
Yeah, i like how you bring everything you can to keep bashing MG and thier games.
I'm not fan of MG, i'm just fan of the products they sell and i want they keep selling this games...it's just it.
#93 by saberger
2011-03-04 at 18:00
< report >
I thought I already said that any more on this topic is a waste.

Per yorhel request, I rest my case in this discussion and this thread. So if you think the game is good, buy it yourself and support MG.

Case closed (for me).
#94 by dacasa
2011-03-04 at 18:04
< report >Finally, thank you!
We really do love you saber, even if we don't say it out loud.
#95 by justinizhere
2011-03-04 at 21:27
< report >so it seems via twitter MG only hit about 500ish sales....so yeah i think the voice patch is much needed as of now
#96 by irx
2011-03-06 at 06:29
< report >That number is pathetic, even indies sell better.
#97 by justinizhere
2011-03-06 at 11:54
< report >indeed
#98 by loctar87
2011-03-06 at 17:26
< report >Funny thing is, it's starting sales are much better than anything else they've ever done. 3x better than Shuffle. The whole reason this 2000 copy thing is happening is because Nexton looked at MG's sales numbers and realized 2000 copies sold would probably never happen, thus they would never be in the black if voices were included. They only need to sell 1000 copies to make a profit without voices.

No miracle happened, but at this rate it's at least possible they will reach 2000 in a few months.Last modified on 2011-03-06 at 17:31
#99 by pendelhaven
2011-03-06 at 17:57
< report >Or maybe MG knows from the very start that they're expecting somewhere in 1,000 sales, and they just placed the 2000 quota for the heck of it?
#100 by arkady18
2011-03-06 at 18:15
< report >Personally, I don't care whether they actually reach 2000, whether they stop selling it at about 500 or whether they will sell 999999999 copies in the next week, but are you not exaggerating a bit?

How can you expect they could sell 2000 in six days???
As I said a few lines above, I don't absolutely care about how many copies they'll sell at the end (as I don't need a translation and I don't care about this game), but the fact that a lot of people tend to criticize MG that has not done anything bad about this game irritates me. I wanna remember to those people who pretend to know nothing that they were contacted by Nexton and they have no fault if the voices are not there, and - for those who ask “Why they translated this game if they knew they couldn't include the voices?” - just imagine to be the chief(s) of MG: would you really say "No, thank you" to a producer who said you "I want you to translate this game, but I will not give you the voices until you'll have shown me you can sell enough", avoiding future possibilities that other companies coulld ask you to translate their games? I don't think so. And even if you said you would, I think that there is a 99% of possibilities that you had lied.

Guys, just think: as of now, there is only a very little market for translated VNs, since they're not really known and most people prefer to download for free them, instead of supporting the companies (makers and translators) involved. As long as the situation is like this, you can't go around whining "MG sucks because they can't sell even 2000 copies in a week!", as it's not MG's fault if people prefer to piratize their translations...

ps: there's no point in saying "Their fault is that they prevented a lot of sells because they removed the voices": it's not their fault if they couldn't demonstrate they can sell 1 billion copies in a day because of pirates...

pps: no, I'm not saying all this because I love MG: I've played only Kira Kira from them and the translation was awful (I compared it with the original and there were a few mistakes here and there), and from that game on I've only read games in Japanese, so you can't say I'm defending MG because I like them. I'm defending them only because people can't understand that the world does not revolve around them: if Nexton didn't want to risk too much money, that is not MG's fault.

ppps: I'm 100% sure that a lot of people will continue to whine that I'm just saying stupid things and that MG is at fault, but I wanted to say all this.Last modified on 2011-03-06 at 18:29