will you buy it?

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#51 by himitsukou
2011-03-02 at 11:12
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come on guys, why are we arguing about rance in a thread asking if you gonna buy koihime musou ?

Because a Rancer brought it up, saying that Koihime is a clone of it. But only because he wants to see it that way.

And if I was right, Aselia 1 has nothing such as " train troops", you only have 1 characters per turn to control. And for your knowledge, Aselia 1 is Simulation RPG. Better to understand the game before making an assumption.
You are the one who needs to do that. Eien no Aselia does have training, there are nice men and women who make your characters from 1 to 99. And you can control more in one turn if your spirits are not in any squad, leveling them up.

And if any more Rance gets here, this'll get locked up from being offtopic.Last modified on 2011-03-02 at 11:17
#52 by hikigane
2011-03-02 at 13:15
< report >I can't seem to understand why anyone would bother trying to change other person's opinion on something.
There is nothing useful to gain doing that, so i'd ask you guys who are so focused on that to do that on some other thread.

And as himetsukou said:
And if any more Rance gets here, this'll get locked up from being offtopic.
#53 by atlas
2011-03-02 at 13:23
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And if any more Rance gets here, this'll get locked up from being offtopic.

A thread on VNDB getting locked? Never happens.
#54 by reid
2011-03-02 at 14:49
< report >@Kiku
Also: Has this one really no such things? Quite interesting, it's relatively normal to have at least battle-stats like atk, def and so on. (Although, of course, if the game doesn't give you status-values, it can still have internal ones... but then it doesn't have rpg-elements, obviously)

So far I can tell you that the game is basically based on a rock-paper-scissors system (cavalry/infantry/archer), all you have to do is to choose a formation which can increase the effectiveness of one of those and a general which can give a peculiar boost (hyper attack every X turns, small advantage in every turn, deflect enemy boost, etc.).
There are no internal stats, every battle has an already programmed number of troops, you can at least influence the amount of calvary/infantry/archer according to the general you choose, but there are no such things like stats or level up. So far a strategy such as Rin as a general, Shuri as a strategist, double echelon formation, attack with infantry every turn has always worked for me (from when I've both of them available of course), at the point that in the long run I would have easily won even battles where all you needed to do was to survive X turns. Of course there could be later battles where for some reasons infantry won't be effective and you've to switch tactic but once you get the hang of how it works, it doesn't seem quite problematic, so far wins have always been by an enormous margin.
I hope battles difficulty will go up by a lot otherwise the battles are really just a nuisance.

Edit: after a couple of more battles I can say that the most important aspect of the battle (probably the only one which counts) is the formation you choose. You just need to choose a formation which has an advantage in the formation relationship diagram and you'll be fine.

Just my two cents on the Rance/KM debate:
Rance is a turn based tactical (how you deploy and attack with the troops in a battle) and strategical (how you spend your money and resources to conduct the war) game AND a RPG (mainly playing with single commanders in dungeons to level up them, getting items, etc.), where they're separate aspects of the game.
A tactical RPG is instead where tactical and RPG aspects are combined (i.e. Utawarerumono, you play a battle and level up characters).
KM is a turn based tactical game. There is no strategy and RPG involved (number of troops isn't a RPG element, you wouldn't call Civilization a RPG just 'cause units have HPs right?), at least for where I arrived.
I didn't play Aselia so I don't know how it is.Last modified on 2011-03-02 at 15:16
#55 by saberger
2011-03-02 at 15:17
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AND a RPG (mainly playing with single commanders in dungeons to level up them, getting items, etc.), where they're separate aspects of the game.

I'll rest my case on this discussion, let's just say that I'm not in this universe.
#56 by pendelhaven
2011-03-02 at 15:31
< report >if its on par with Rance then this'll be worthwhile.
#57 by reid
2011-03-02 at 15:36
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if its on par with Rance then this'll be worthwhile.

I think if you start this game expecting it to be on par with Rance you're gonna be extremely disappointed. They're similar game in the concept but very different in the execution.Last modified on 2011-03-02 at 15:38
#58 by justinizhere
2011-03-03 at 03:48
< report >i read rance for the lol factor, i dont think KM looks to be like it at all. but once voices get released i shall see
#59 by kaetokiha
2011-03-03 at 05:11
< report >I'll buy the game and help with the cause.
but i need colaboration from my bank for me to be able to do this =/Last modified on 2011-03-03 at 05:11
#60 by akirarinkitori
2011-03-04 at 02:24
< report >1/4 way to the voice patch
oh my my....... expecting in like...1 more month ?
#61 by saberger
2011-03-04 at 04:01
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oh my my....... expecting in like...1 more month ?

More like people all buy it in the first released day, then the hype will die out soon, then the number will be less and less, then say goodbye to your voice patch.

10 years.

I better get out of here before being attacked by stone, rotten tomatoes, and even shoes....
#62 by surferdude
2011-03-04 at 04:38
< report >Pretty much what saber said. Most people who intended to buy the game will do so in the first few days after release. The rest will simply get it from their friendly neighborhood torrent site, all cracked and ready to play. Fully functional, unofficial voice patch coming soon...

By the way, is there any counter on MG's site or somewhere that says how many copies of the game they sold? Not that I care about this game or anything, I'm just curious to see how business is going.Last modified on 2011-03-04 at 04:49
#63 by saberger
2011-03-04 at 04:52
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Pretty much what saber said. Most people who intended to buy the game will do so in the first few days after release. The rest will simply get it from their friendly neighborhood torrent site, all cracked and ready to play. Fully functional, unofficial voice patch coming soon...

Now that I have an ally, somehow, I will give a little hypothesis of mine:

The news from MG is a farce, just a farce, really. They want to have more people buying the game, so they give a false information to lure out all the impatient folks who wait for the voice patch. As those poor human take the bait and go to the store to buy the game, MG wins. If the number can not reach 2000, they still win. They just need to say: Sorry, the patch can not be released, the amount is only 1999 copies (oooooops!)

It's a conspiracy. While it is difficult to hear for you folks, but it can be real, as it's business.

And I heard the unofficial voice patch is buggy like hell....

@surferboy: Thanks for your support, but I think I must leave you behind, as I don't want to be drown in tomato juice
#64 by surferdude
2011-03-04 at 04:54
< report >LOL, 1999. That would piss off a whole lot of people.
#65 by akirarinkitori
2011-03-04 at 06:01
< report >well the information i got was from facebook.....Im still having hope for MG...probably...>_>
#66 by kaetokiha
2011-03-04 at 07:23
< report >@saberger I guess your hatred upon MangaGamer is already know by everyone in this treat so i think you don't need to keep showing it to us anymore.
#67 by saberger
2011-03-04 at 07:30
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I guess your hatred upon MangaGamer is already know by everyone in this treat so i think you don't need to keep showing it to us anymore.

You could agree or disagree with me, that's your right, but even then, you can not defy my logic. So your love for MG is just that small? You can not defend it with logical reasoning and resort to petty method?

So much for the fan........Boooooooooooh.....

Edit: and if you read my posts again, there's not much of hatred in them. One of them is a fact, and one of them is hypothesis. Pwned (?)Last modified on 2011-03-04 at 07:32
#68 by dacasa
2011-03-04 at 08:05
< report >@ saber,
You also have no evidence to proove that your hypothetis is right. The alternative hypothetis; that MG will release an voice patch at 2000 copies, is still possible.

I think what MG did was smart. THis way pirating the game doesn't have that much effect. With 2000 games they probably reach the break-even point in their finances. Now isn't that just smart marketing?

The voice patch can't be anything but buggy, since it's made within 3 days or so. I still believe MG will release a voice patch. They can't just cancel it now, because they'll lose to many future buyers that way.
#69 by saberger
2011-03-04 at 08:40
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ou also have no evidence to proove that your hypothetis is right. The alternative hypothetis; that MG will release an voice patch at 2000 copies, is still possible.

That's why it's a hypothesis. But the man in question just didn't do anything to deny it, instead, saying"I guess your hatred upon MangaGamer is already know by everyone in this treat so i think you don't need to keep showing it to us anymore. " wasn't help at all.

If he went by the lines of " But if MG do that, they will somehow lose the faith of customers" then the argument does, at least, make sense.

I don't say that i was right, but I don't think that saying something stupid for the sake of conversation is right, either.

MEh, that's off-topic...

Let's see:

I think what MG did was smart. THis way pirating the game doesn't have that much effect. With 2000 games they probably reach the break-even point in their finances. Now isn't that just smart marketing?

That's what I think. That's business, and as I said "they still win". Whatever the case, MG still win. That's the most important thing for them. But can you comprehend this fact? It's bad practice, and it shows the lack of respect of the company towards the customer. You may find it easy to forgive them, but I can't. This is something which I can not forget or forgive. And they weren't good vendor in the past, either.

The voice patch can't be anything but buggy, since it's made within 3 days or so. I still believe MG will release a voice patch. They can't just cancel it now, because they'll lose to many future buyers that way.

1. there's a rumor that the man who did the patch gave up, now you must wait for someone to fix all the crashing and bugging of the patch

2. No, they don't. It's human thing to have hope. Beside, I doubt that;s many people will resent MG for their actions, either.

PS: This quote of your
You also have no evidence to proove that your hypothetis is right. The alternative hypothetis; that MG will release an voice patch at 2000 copies, is still possible.

is irrelevant to the discussion, since it's hypothesis.
#70 by yorhel
2011-03-04 at 09:58
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You may find it easy to forgive them, but I can't. This is something which I can not forget or forgive.
So basically, you're having problems with their method of making VNs popular in the west? Is this because you hate seeing VNs getting more popular or is this because you have a better method in mind? I hope you do realize that if they won't gain more sales, they have absolutely no way to continue their operation. If you have problems accepting that fact then it's time to realize that you're an idealist, and idealism in general won't get anything done. (Not saying idealism is bad per se, but it's all but pracitcal.)
#71 by saberger
2011-03-04 at 10:13
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So basically, you're having problems with their method of making VNs popular in the west?

No, I don't

Is this because you hate seeing VNs getting more popular

I really don't care about this. It could go either way, whether VNs popular or not is not the important thing that I would like to see.

is this because you have a better method in mind

No, I must say I don't.

I hope you do realize that if they won't gain more sales, they have absolutely no way to continue their operation

Then so be it. That's no way to treat customers. Bad way of controlling sales is bad. And there's no official statement that they will stop how they do it, either. If they succeed once, they could do it twice, then thrice, ... then use the same excuse, backed up by the claim :

if they won't gain more sales, they have absolutely no way to continue their operation

So what's the point, really? Their translation quality hasn't matched with the price, either. If the organization, built by my own money, get corrupted, then I prefer to watch it burnt rather than let it consumes more of my money (I, my represent as generalization), I prefer to destroy it and build it again rather than continue to pour money to support its functional operation.

If you have problems accepting that fact then it's time to realize that you're an idealist, and idealism in general won't get anything done. (Not saying idealism is bad per se, but it's all but pracitcal.)

i'm not idealist. In fact, I think I hardly ever voiced my frustraion over their translation, or even the choice of their catalogue ( maybe once or twice, but not too much, and normaly, I joked about it rather than being straight). But this maybe too much for me to take.

And beside, you were wrong, as
and idealism in general won't get anything done

Ideology is theory. Without theory, there's not much practice can be done.Last modified on 2011-03-04 at 10:14
#72 by yorhel
2011-03-04 at 10:26
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Then so be it. That's no way to treat customers. Bad way of controlling sales is bad.
If you prefer to not have any commercially available titles in the west over a sales strategy that does not adhere to your high standards, then that's fine. (As long as are willing to accept that not everyone will agree with you) But if you base your opinion on the following baseless speculation:
The news from MG is a farce, just a farce, really
then obviously your opinion is going to be misguided.

Ideology is theory. Without theory, there's not much practice can be done.
You misunderstood the intention of my statement. But whatever, it was hardly relevant. :)
#73 by saberger
2011-03-04 at 11:08
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If you prefer to not have any commercially available titles in the west over a sales strategy that does not adhere to your high standards, than that's fine

No, I have no qualms about MG's decision regards the voice, but it can only be done once. If they have came out and reassured me that they would not try to do this kind of controling sales again, then I should be fine with it. But they haven't. So, in fact, they could do the dang thing a second time, a third, fourth, fifth,.. time. And it would get worse, not for the better.

But if you base your opinion on the following baseless speculation

That speculation was predicted by combining MG's prestige/reknown/reputation as an online vendor and a professional translation group, with their decisions and treatments for customers in the past. It's called speculation, for a reason, it's could be true or false. I didn't said it was right, either.

The way I see it, this is more like the way of manipulating sales rather than an attempt to make VNs more popular in the West.

That's, I even didn't consider the fact that Jast could follow suit MG. They could do another "we only put specific [insert random feature] blahblahblah [/insert radom feature] if we can sell more than [insert radom number] blehblehbleh [/insert radom number] copies" . I don't think this situation could benefit the Vns international market anyhow.
#74 by himitsukou
2011-03-04 at 11:10
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Now that I have an ally
He has an ally. Crush him, before he raises an army.

It's a conspiracy.
What you're saying is also a conspiracy theory. Now which one is on the money?

there's no official statement that they will stop how they do it
They would lose the support of their buyers, if they did, and it was only from the large number of voice actors in Koihime.

Their translation quality hasn't matched with the price, either
Then you translate it.Last modified on 2011-03-04 at 11:14
#75 by saberger
2011-03-04 at 11:18
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What you're saying is also a conspiracy theory. Now which one is on the money?


It's a speculation. And
That speculation was predicted by combining MG's prestige/reknown/reputation as an online vendor and a professional translation group, with their decisions and treatments for customers in the past. It's called speculation, for a reason, it's could be true or false. I didn't said it was right, either.

How can you defend your points of the hypothesis?

They would lose the support of their buyers, if they did, and it was only from the large number of voice actors in Koihime.


No, they don't. If they release a press release state that they will not screw us another time, then the will have more support from the buyers.

Your points on the large cast of voice? So if they decide to release another game has the great amount of voice actors, they could do it again? Your logic, you fail.

You could agree or disagree with me, that's your right, but even then, you can not defy my logic.
That made me lol. A bit high and mighty, hm?


High? Mighty? Look at his post, he didn't try to use logical reasoning. So he disagreed with me, but he could not defy my logic. No reasons, no examples, no whatsoever, that wasn't a discussion, more like a child throwing a tantrum.

Then you translate it.

Want me to give you an exmaple?