The worst translation I've ever seen
|#26 by fuukanou|
2019-06-02 at 20:32
|< report >The English "bye" as something other than "bye" is because it's kinda affected to say "bye" not in the simplest form.|
It's the "English is the lingua franca" problem again. They can't use the same trope as the original and so it has to be changed.
|#27 by then00bavenger|
2019-06-02 at 20:38
|< report >I mean, I got out of translation because I lacked the creativity to be able to write interesting English in place of the Japanese so you're not wrong(though your reasoning is probably off)|
English in general doesn't really lend itself to be as repetitive as Japanese can tend to be in terms of the 'obligatory formalities' so trying to make minor changes to switch up greetings that occur hundreds of times over the course of a single work is a natural thing to do for a decent translation. We're not talking something over the top and unnatural in common (unironic) conversation like "see you later alligator" after all, just something that still sounds natural and doesn't stand out.
Though to be completely honest, in a game dedicated to comedy and depending on the personality of the character, something over the top wouldn't be that big a deal either. Holding true to the spirit of the work, the character, and the specific scene in question is more important than holding true to the exact line. This goes double for comedy because the unfortunate truth is that the ideal comedic timing sometimes doesn't match up with the original. Being able to come up with a joke in the specific areas where the original makes a joke is of course good and if it works out, ideal. But a lot of the time it's probably not going to come out as well as the original. Seeing a natural opportunity for a joke that presents itself because of the way the English language works that didn't exist in the original and realizing that ignoring it would not be in spirit with what the original work is trying to do and going for that opportunity is a sign of overcoming the trite 'translate line by line' amateur process that, being the 3rd rate translator I am, was unfortunately not able to move out of.
Not to say that "filling empty space with epic memes" is the best solution(unless you're translating something that literally does that), but you get what I mean. It's why translating comedy is some of the hardest things to do because the translator has to be as funny and creative as the original writer while also being on the same wavelength for optimal results.Last modified on 2019-06-03 at 00:55
|#28 by utamaruno|
2019-06-02 at 21:11
|< report >Who is "translator" of this rewrite mess? Chuee again?|
|#29 by roadi|
2019-06-02 at 21:23
|< report >I think this whole thread boils down to two camps:|
Those that understand what nuances are, and those that do not.
Translating nuances is not simply copy&pasta from Google Translate, but more of finding the matching "feeling" in whatever language that is the target of the translation.
Of course, if this does not resonate with the reader, then that's another matter altogether.
Using one's half-baked knowledge of a language to judge a translation is not going to sit well with non-literal translations.
If you want to read the source as is, without any "modifications", then learn the language.
|#30 by silvver|
2019-06-02 at 21:36
|< report >The "bye" example makes me remember the professional translation of FFXIII where they translated the Snow's shout "Nee-san" to "Lightning! Watch out!".|
As for Sankaku - there is nothing that a sufficient amount of "dude" would not fix.
|#31 by utamaruno|
2019-06-02 at 22:05
|< report >>If you want to read the source as is, without any "modifications", then learn the language.|
You can make translation without so many modifications, you know. Trip and Irru prove it with Tsujidou-san no Jun'ai Road and HoshiOri, while being so fast.
|#32 by freshift|
2019-06-02 at 22:38
|< report >#31 Genuine question. Without learning the language, how could one possibly figure out if the translation is with 'so many modification' or not? I know neither Trip nor Irru, but how do you know if their translation were 'without so many modifications'?|
|#33 by diabloryuzaki|
2019-06-02 at 22:52
|< report >#32 it's simple. you will find something weird in their lines that can't fit enough when characters said something. usually it is easy to identify when characters said something but the lines too long or too short to write when it get translated.|
|#34 by fuukanou|
2019-06-02 at 23:12
|< report >#30, What someone gets out of a line varies between languages. In Japanese, you can omit a lot of things (grammatical and implications) and still convey a point so much more succinctly than English. It makes sense to make these differences so the reader [player] gets the same idea out of the line. There's nothing massively wrong with it.|
#31, I dunno about Tsujidou but HoshiOri has very little that needs this treatment. While I'm sure the minds of hundreds of people together can come up with super elegant solutions, but something that conveys the major idea is sufficient for a translation.
#33, bad idea. Large amounts of omitted and implied parts of the sentence will give you a biased reading. Learn the language before you complain is my suggested answer to #32's question.
|#35 by roadi|
2019-06-02 at 23:21
|< report >Japanese is not English.|
You cannot expect every and all forms to carry over from one language to another gracefully without any structural modification or improvisation - that's just not going to happen.
The source material dictates how a translation should be carried out: some allow quite natural translations and others not.
As already noted time and again, this work is littered with absurdist humor, memes, parody, etc. that is local to Japan and in particular the otaku subculture.
How do you expect this to be translated without any loss or modification to any other language/region?
Even the word "otaku" does not have a viable English equivalent.
|#36 by diabloryuzaki|
2019-06-02 at 23:22
|< report >#34 well that is the minus part when translated it in english and learn the language is natural answer for japanese reader. but when give that advice to english oriented only no matter what they always said that it is troublesome way to read vn|
|#37 by being|
2019-06-02 at 23:26
|< report >#29|
You're trying to make it sound like you're the one who doesn't understand nuance by bringing up that strawman. Do you treat all translations as equal when they are not? There's a big difference between translators that rewrite to get around the inherent problems with translations (which is something any good translation will have to do more or less) and translators that rewrite for its own sake. The latter are just jerking off in my opinion. I also think that this is where the real nuance lies, and you have to drop this nonsensical equality act and instead judge translators by their actual work. There's such a thing as "trying too hard" and that exact problem was also present in Fureraba and Chrono Clock (Gee, I wonder why)
|#38 by diabloryuzaki|
2019-06-02 at 23:37
|< report >#35 well, that is weird. because japanese is not english is common knowledge. and to translate something always give you a chance to have 90% or more result of perfection with these conditions|
1. target translation can response any nuance or common sense from source without removing it as much as they can
2. term is the hard one moreover in high fantasy setting. example is 魔神 (majin), you can translate it to three meaning like magic god, devil and evil god. which of them is right but it doesn't mean it will fit to the lines
3. talking pattern. japanese talking pattern is hard to translate even in english, and translate it without use phonetic guide is fool because it can ruin the nuance. sometime translator will remove it rather than leave it like that, and that act can ruin character talking pattern. the most easy example is utawarerumono futari no hakuoro, just try to compare the original and english one then see how funny that translating work
and there is more difficulty too if you want to reach 90% or more accuracy translation work and of course that is not cheap. but it doesn't mean pay high to profesional can give that accuracy because sometime translator work style can change scenario writer style too and that is not good.
and if you didn't know it, otaku have two meaning in japan or english.
おたく : you, usually it use in old period i think but didn't know for current use
オタク : geek or nerd. in general people think otaku as japanese culture enthusiast but that is not wrong too. and otaku can refer to people who have high passion to something that sometime they can make you backdown from their "passion words"
|#39 by fuukanou|
2019-06-02 at 23:47
|< report >#38, unrelated to topic, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I believe the link between the two is that otaku, which is similar to "uchi" except referring to a second person's household often in a polite context, isn't used that often in modern regular speech. A stereotypical [game/anime etc] otaku would be clumsy with words and use outdated or overly polite words, and were thusly named.Last modified on 2019-06-02 at 23:47|
|#40 by freshift|
2019-06-03 at 00:36
|< report >#34 My question was "How could one possibly figure out if the translation is with 'so many modification' or not?" i.e. "What makes you to think the translation is good or bad when you can't read Japanese to begin with?", but ok.|
|#41 by fuukanou|
2019-06-03 at 00:49
|< report >#40, and my answer is that you can't. Unless you know both languages to a passable degree, you cannot give a reliable answer, and you're just bullshitting. If someone can read the original, there is little reason for them to read the translation and so you're left with random people just asserting the translation's good or bad, so you can't rely on them either.|
|#42 by roadi|
2019-06-03 at 00:51
|< report >@#37:|
Perhaps a straw man to you, but I think I'm not that far off.
As a matter of fact, I dislike translations due to the inevitable decay of the content - that's why I learned to read Japanese in the first place.
Unfortunately, some (most?) people are under the false impression that one language can be mapped quite directly to another one without resorting to improvisation, and I simply disagree with this.
I hope you do understand that localization is more than just translation; it also involves the "translation" of cultural differences and I'd say this is quite the non-trivial task.
Anyway, there's always the possibility of a better translation of a given work, but given the examples within this thread, I think the translators have preserved the general feel quite well, and I think this is what matters the most.
I'm not going to read the translation and thus cannot give any specific comments, but what I can say is that, at a glance, this seems "not that bad" - if you want terribad, go buy some SakuraGame titles. :PLast modified on 2019-06-03 at 00:51
|#43 by abew|
2019-06-03 at 01:15
|< report >can someone tell me the name of the TLer who translated Sankaku?|
so I can make sure to never read any visual novel that he translates again
It's the same TLer that did "If You Love Me, Then Say So" ?
I think the name/nickname of the TLers should be displayed on the game's release entry
for example: "Translated by: Aklone (Freelance)"
|#44 by ramaladni|
2019-06-03 at 01:32
|< report >TBAC. Sukisuki was done by Arunaru.|
And I completely disagree. We already see this happen in EGS where people vote brigade against certain games because the scenario writer had some hot takes on twitter. Don't need the same here.
Then again, your reading comprehension level is low if after 40 posts you still haven't realized that the problem you have is with the original text and not the translation. I looked at the comparison screenshots and the translation looked perfectly fine to me. Read as cringy as the original JP.
The criticism against translations nowadays is pretty ridiculous. It was the same thing the other day with people complaining about the translation of "Dame" in "Damekoi", from people who don't know Japanese, and what we had were twenty different interpretations from twenty different posters, all with varying degrees of quality.Last modified on 2019-06-03 at 01:33
|#45 by diabloryuzaki|
2019-06-03 at 05:03
|< report >#44 what an interesting thing you said, some time ago i see another thread for this vn give SS where translator give meme about Chinese porn PowerPoint, did this kind of meme is right translation too or did translator-kun only want to ruin original joke?|
|#46 by utamaruno|
2019-06-03 at 06:47
|< report >#32 Genuine answer. I know japanese enough to read vns without mtl tools. Nonetheless, English versions is still preferable for me if it has good translation, since I can read it much faster. So I can proclaim that the TsurezureScans translations is very well-made. Of course there were few questionable stuff, but it's still much better than most recent OFFICIAL releases.|
>And I completely disagree. We already see this happen in EGS where people vote brigade against certain games because the scenario writer had some hot takes on twitter. Don't need the same here.
Then nothing will change. Those wannabe writers will keep ruining potential good games that could've been translated by more proper translator.
Can we finally have any joke examples on japanese? Especially I'm interested in Chinese porn one. I don't believe they were too hard to understand for gaijins.
I think it's another case of "This script is boring, I'll make it more interesting and funny". You are failure as translator if you start thinking like that.
|#47 by sakurakoi|
2019-06-03 at 07:36
|< report >|
"This script is boring, I'll make it more interesting and funny". You are failure as translator if you start thinking like that.Isn't that were one will end up and this is the start:
I got out of translation because I lacked the creativity to be able to write interesting English in place of the JapaneseSeriously, overly liberal translations are as bad as overly literal ones, although one can argue that the prior is actually much worse... it really does not matter. The M.O really should be, when criticizing translations (and defending them, which should ofc be at least one number more or better than the suggestion to 4):
1: Official Translation
2: Original text (+in romanji for a lot of convenience e.g. so that those who can't read runes can follow)
3: Context i.e Character's personality/tune and situation
4: Alternate Translation
The screenshots in #7 are rather useless, one can argue either way and merely fathom plenty "what-ifs". Does the Prez actually use slang and profanity? Then it is indeed fine. Makina from the Grisaia Trilogy is probably and remains forever so the best example for a very well translated vulgar character who exactly uses all kinds of slang, profanity, obscenity &c. Without exaggerating, staying true to the character.
Needless to say, the further one strays from the original script, the less competent, and creative someone actually is.
If ya indeed got to translate: エロゲ、ですか？ and come up with "Eroge? You mean those Chinese porn powerpoint for dudes?" then you missed yer profession. Not that one should become an "Influencer" who just makes many ones even more sick.
We already see this happen in EGS where people vote brigade against certain games because the scenario writer had some hot takes on twitter.Well, we also got an anime adaption to an LN which was cancelled, the LN as well, due to the fact that author-san could not keep their hatred of Chinese to themselves~
Totally deserved by the by, especially since it did confirm what one can only call "The racist protagonist is my self-insert, tehe".Last modified on 2019-06-03 at 07:37
|#48 by ramaladni|
2019-06-03 at 08:45
|< report >>Can we finally have any joke examples on japanese? |
#46 You got this one backwards. Considering that you're part of the group that claims that this translation butchers the original, the burden of proof lies with you.Last modified on 2019-06-03 at 08:45
|#49 by utamaruno|
2019-06-03 at 10:05
|< report >#48 |
I've asking someone who has jap copy. I can't buy both versions to compare them. Although I can buy steam version and refund, I still can't compare MC lines and read more than 2 hours (refund rule). Not to mention I don't have time right now to even start reading something.
SukiSuki, Fureraba and ChronoClock cases is enough for me to be skeptical. I believe there wasn't any complaints if it was good translation.
But I'll be grateful if someone makes comparison to #7 lines. Maybe this is just a sabotage from Sekai as revenge for stolen Senren Banka. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sometimes I think bad translations kept excluding jap language options on purpose.Last modified on 2019-06-03 at 16:07
|#50 by freshift|
2019-06-03 at 10:17
|< report >#49 See #13 for two scenes I had recognized from the screenshots posted in #7. For rest of screenshots I need more context to find out.|