The worst translation I've ever seen
|#76 by ᔕᕼᖇOOᗰᒪOᖇᗪ⭐|
2019-06-18 at 14:39
What else are you going to pick up nowadays?Lune, Atelier Kaguya, Minato Soft/Carnival, Empress, toneworks, Ricotta, Orcsoft, Akabei Soft3, Candy Soft, Astronauts: Sirius, Koihime remakes... I could go on and on. There's so much great stuff they're either ignoring or don't see a profit in or whatever. I'm guessing the main reason is that people aren't prepared to pay $XX for "just a VN" or something like that? And that's sad.
I read VNs almost every day and yet I only see 1 or 2 VNs per year* released in English that catch my interest. Last year had Sideboob Story with a great translation. Super impressed.
On topic. Maybe you guys could try a more investigative approach next time? Translating/editing Japanese to English is hard af and people who do even just a decent job of it are my fucking heroes. It's a bit depressing seeing shit thrown around based on assumptions.
*EditLast modified on 2019-06-18 at 14:56
|#77 by kiru|
2019-06-18 at 15:23
-Lune was in talks with Mangagamer. I'm not sure what came out of it, but another company won't touch this. Either it failed for good reason, or Mangagamer has them. That said, completely different thing, as Lune does nukige.
-Kaguya are full-lenght nukige which is something very different in the first place. Also generally not that worthwhile. The shorter and cheaper ones are better in the long run.
-Minato: Jast. As such not possible.
-tone work's: Belong to Visual Art's, which is impossible, as they handle their stuff on their own. Similar to Key.
-Ricotta: Seem pretty dead.
-Orcsoft: Again, something so different that you can't compare this. Nukige with rather specific fetishes.
-AKB3: While I'm not entirely sure, this is likely one that simply doesn't want to. Otherwise they would've had something going a while ago already. They block foreign IPs from their websites, too, as far as I know. And that's generally telling something, if they don't do it because they actually do license their stuff out at the same time.
-Candy Soft: See Minato Soft. Most likely at least.
-Astronauts: Again a little too different in the first place. Might not want anything either though.
-Koihime: Mangagamer. Generally seems to have been not worth the effort, so you don't see much there. The voice acting in these games is rather expensive to license, couple that with the ton of text.. there's better choices.
See, essentially everything you listed is either completely different in style, and as such out of question (they didn't want to release nukige after all), or simply impossible. I'm not kidding when I say that most stuff is simply gone. It's gone, reserved or the respective devs are dead or don't want to bother with all that.
There was the short Steam boom, but that's over.Last modified on 2019-06-18 at 15:27
|#78 by kratoscar2008|
2019-06-18 at 20:42
How about the whole Smee catalogue? You still have Love Delation, KanojoStep, PurexConnect, LoverAble and now there is Sugar Style. All of them well regarded VNs and with their own gimmicks.
Fureraba was a hit so why not build from it?
|#79 by eacil|
2019-06-18 at 20:45
|#80 by ᔕᕼᖇOOᗰᒪOᖇᗪ⭐|
2019-06-18 at 20:56
And preordered. 😉 Hope it does well.
Uncensored Orcsoft CG. 🤤
|#81 by luther|
2019-06-22 at 01:33
He's just debunking your claim that there aren't anymore VN's "worth translating" because that statement itself sounds pretty damn ridiculous.
|#82 by rampaa|
2019-12-25 at 08:02
|Calling this sorry excuse of a rewrite a translation is just offensive. People who try to justify this shit should feel more ashamed than people who "translated" it.|
|#83 by freshift|
2019-12-25 at 13:59
|#82 At least bother to cite some examples and argue for the contrary before shouting meaningless plain insults to other people.|
|#84 by rampaa|
2019-12-25 at 16:15
|#83: I will not. No matter how bad the translation is, some people always try to sugarcoat and defend it. I am not just imagining that would be the case, that has already happened. Some people prior to myself have given some examples (like "Eroge? You mean those Chinese porn powerpoints for dudes?" thingy) and some people tried to defend even that. So just for my own amusement, instead of pointlessly supplying examples, I will list a few arguments that have been used to defend "translation"s like this:|
1) This is a meme game so *insert non-translation translation here* is okay!
I love this one. Even if one were to prove every sentence were altered needlessly beyond any recognition, you would be still able to defend the end result. Think of the most absurd and unacceptable translation choices possible (I am genuinely not sure if such a thing exist for some people here) and you can counter it with this silly argument. They have just rewritten the whole thing? It's okay, it's a bakage! They have inserted needless jokes? It's okay, it's a meme game! They changed the names of the whole characters to Monika? It's okay, this is a meme game and Monika is a meme, you are just not smart enough to understand it! Also, if you did not like this translation, I guarantee you, you wouldn't like the game anyway! So it's okay for them to change it!
2) How can you judge the accuracy of the translation? People who could read the *original language* wouldn't read it from the *target language*!!!
I love this one as well. You can copy-paste this every time someone criticize a translation. It's such a lovely non-argument argument. It just tries to discredit people who they are disagreeing with. But, assuming they are being sincere with this, I will try to list some of the valid scenarios in good faith:
a) Knowing a language is never binary. It's not either you know it or not. People may have some certain level of skills in a language to understand when the translation is basically BSing them.
b) A person who can read the *original language* cannot necessarily read it as fast as they read the *target language*.
c) Some people can be a native speakers of *original language* and may want to polish their *target language* skills with reading the translation of the said material.
d) Some people might be interested in seeing the translation of a thing, even if they don't need it per se.
e) Even if they are native-like in both languages they may read the translation "just because".
3) Japanese culture is different, Western people are basically douches!
A lovely argument has arrived, yet again! So the character uses a vulgar language (or something akin to that) in the translation for no apparent reason? Just recite this: "Japanese culture is different, Western people are basically douches!"
4) It makes sense in the context!
Spoiler alert: It does not. This is one of the most used arguments of all times. You want to defend your (un)holy book? Use this! You want to defend a girl calling their partner "dude" even when they are having sex? Use this! You want to defend the existence of the word broski? Use this! You want to defend "You mean those Chinese porn powerpoints for dudes?" thingy? Use this! No one can convince you otherwise anyway.
5) You cannot judge a translation from a few lines.
So, someone has managed to find a few lines so shitty even you cannot defend it somehow? Fear not for I have the perfect solution for it! First off, don't admit those translations are shitty, instead of doing that just sugarcoat it and say something like "Maybe they could have worded it a little bit better". After that, just arbitrarily decide that the examples are not enough for you to be convinced. Oh, also please don't forget the push the notion that everyone has to believe a translation is good unless it is absolutely proven to be wrong.
tl;dr: Discussing the quality of a translation is just a fool's errand. Those who want to defend it (for whatever reason they may have) will defend it with those "unbeatable" arguments. Just reading through this thread is enough testament of that. So I have no intention of discussing or providing examples that will be "countered" with those aforementioned arguments. I just came here to rant.Last modified on 2019-12-25 at 16:56
|#85 by ecchihieronymus|
2019-12-25 at 19:40
|#84 You should, if you'll ever be able to, rename yourself to rantpaa.|
What I don't disagree with is your abhorrent attitude towards the efforts made by the translator (and their team, idk) to localize this game. Jokes (I'm talking about jokes because that's what a bakage apparently builds upon - being silly ==> jokes) are some of if not the hardest things to translate, period. I have read neither the original nor the NN version but I can tell you that every joke or line, as cringey as it seems, has gone through at least four to five thought processes before being finalized. It's much easier to translate a manual or a run-of-the-mill moege than it is to translate a bakage, you can be sure of that. Every joke is hit or miss because you have to gauge what your target audience might find funny or not. Add to that that your target audience is basically split in two with the average Steam user and the hardcore VN crowd who buy from the localizers directly. One could understand more Japanese-like/literal jokes while the other needs exactly what was intended for the Japanese culture and audience but adapted to their culture and way of life (which would ideally be the International meme scene in this case).
I admit there's a problem with overly liberal translations in the VN scene, that is something which the industry has to change over time with, hopefully, more professional and properly educated translators entering the scene (I hope to be one of those some day, insert shameless forward-thinking plug here).
If you want something to change, do it yourself. Study Japanese until you're native level and above, study English until you're native level and above, immerse yourself in these two cultures and soak up everything that's needed to understand most of the references, study a bit of translation theory - the basic and intermediate stuff will suffice, everything else is research level bs that no practicing translator really needs. Then go and translate VNs yourself and learn how fucking difficult it is to actually translate something, anything at all. You're always running around with thoughts of doubt in your head "Did I translate this right? Could native speakers understand and relate to what I just wrote? Is my translation good enough?". People like you are both saint and devil to translators because you confirm their self-doubts AND because you confirm their self-doubts (I did not repeat myself by accident here if anyone's wondering). But maybe you're not, they probably see you like most others do, a pathetic whiney and entitled baby who wouldn't produce a translation with 1/10th of the quality, and if you're not then PROVE. ME. THE FUCK. WRONG! Take one of ASa Project's other titles and translate it with the same thought and care that this VN's translator (and team, idk) did. Re-translating this one would be too easy, you could, after all, just take most of the bare-bones of what the original translator provided and fill it with jokes that you like.
|#86 by rampaa|
2019-12-25 at 20:19
|#85 Thank you for your valuable input. I forgot to add one of the most important arguments to that list, I shall fix that now:|
6) If you cannot (or will not!) do it better then your criticism is void.
This is such a good argument. To see how good it is, let's apply this to other fields in our lives. Can you shoot a movie? No? Then don't you dare criticize any movie, ever. Do you know how much effort it takes to shoot those things? You are such a pathetic whiny and entitled baby who cannot even produce 1/10th of the quality of that said movie. And if you are not, then PROVE. ME. THE FUCK. WRONG.
Yup, it works like a charm. If you are not convinced enough, just replace the filmmaking with other hundreds of activities you cannot accomplish.Last modified on 2019-12-25 at 20:21
|#87 by ecchihieronymus|
2019-12-25 at 20:45
Says the guy who is such a smarty-pants he declares every argument for it (the translation) invalid. I don't see any point in arguing more with a person like you since you probably can't concede a point nor allow yourself to be wrong. Have fun ruminating about all the other 'cringey' and 'bad' translations that will be released in the future while I sit here and enjoy them for what they are - Chinese porn PowerPoints for dudes.Last modified on 2019-12-25 at 20:54
|#88 by rampaa|
2019-12-25 at 20:46
|#87 You sure showed @87 his place! Kudos to you!|
|#89 by ecchihieronymus|
2019-12-25 at 20:54
|lol, I'm tired af and happy enough to write coherent sentences, who cares about numbers.|
|#90 by being|
2019-12-25 at 21:18
|rampaa is absolutely correct though. "If you can't do it better yourself, then shut up" is a total cliché and has no meaning beyond shutting down criticism. A thoughtful critic understands his own limitations, and the inherent limitations of all of our lives. Nobody can work professionally in every field, but everyone has the right to voice their opinions. It's a delicate matter with a simple solution: thoughtfulness. Assuming that anyone critical is thoughtless by not understanding that translation is difficult is thoughtless in itself. Translating jokes is difficult. That's obvious. With that out of the way, there's been a ton of legitimate criticisms of this particular translation, and a ton of thoughtless deflections due to that. rampaa's rant sheds light on these clichéd deflections, which is probably more entertaining to read than this VN itself.|
I guess to some people, translators themselves are the only people allowed to be critical of their own work. To me (an onlooker) however, it seems that the translators in this industry could stand to be a bit more self-critical.Last modified on 2019-12-25 at 21:19
|#91 by ecchihieronymus|
2019-12-25 at 22:01
|#90 It's not really the fact that there's criticism to be had that's pissing me off but the way in which he portrayed it in particular, pointing out #82. There's only bad in his critique as far as I can see, there's no positive, which is ridiculous. I only gave him what he gave the translators and made him think a bit with the 'If you can't do it better yourself, then shut up' bit, which is valid in the field of translation because you can call yourself one without needing any certificate or qualification whatsoever. If he so desires he could easily get a text-extracting program on Fuwa-novel and make a 'fix' for this VN. The criticism is even more valid towards people who can't even produce proper sentences in the language that they're speaking/it's especially infuriating to see those tardy reviews (which isn't the case with rampaa), but I'm getting off-point. There is no thoughtfulness, which you claim I don't have, in rampaa's reply either. As I said, I gave him only as much as he gave the translators. If he were to go back and reconsider some things or just appreciate the effort that the translators went through to produce the localization, then I'd give him the same thoughtfulness. Sakurakoi wrote something, today I think, in another thread about the basics of making an argument/writing a review where you give a mixture of good and bad with a conclusion at the end but it seems that all people are capable of these is shitting on others. We don't need that attitude in a community as niché as the ([I hope] paying) Western VN fandom.|
I'll also admit that I was even worse than him at the beginning of this year, literally calling for Arunaru's head for what he did with dude and broski but I've since cut back on those word choices and sentiments and I hope rampaa will be able to do something similar some time in the future. Shit man, vndb threads are just like any other SM (SNS) platform these days, probably have to start avoiding them, too.
|#92 by warfoki|
2019-12-25 at 22:05
|The "don't criticize it if you can't do better" is one of the most common defense of anything and also one of the stupidest. To give you a crude example, if you are on a plane and as it is taking off it starts to rattle like hell and you can see smoke coming from the wings, you don't have to be an aircraft engineer to realize that it doesn't supposed to do that. And yet, by this inane logic, you should shut up, since you cannot possibly know that, because you don't know every minute detail about the process of making a jet engine.Last modified on 2019-12-25 at 22:06|
|#93 by ecchihieronymus|
2019-12-25 at 22:29
|#92 Only thing is, as I've pointed out, anyone in these threads with a decent knowledge of both EN and JP CAN or COULD do better themselves. You don't need to study aerodynamics or nuclear physics. Translation is not rocket science, it's only practicing it that really makes you stand out. There's no huge amount of study time needed in translation theory, I'll go so low as to say that merely the basics suffice. The argument is valid as is seen with most fan-translators out there. Most (/all) of them learned Japanese to consume the media it provided and then they tried their hand at translating and grew to like it. Few of them (/none) had profit or a career in mind. I don't think rampaa does either. |
It's the sad and simple truth about translation:"Hey, I know that you speak these two languages, could you maybe translate this text for me until tomorrow?" (hands them 10+ pages of text) is something a relative heard only because they lived in England for 20+ years as a German immigrant. No translation experience or education whatsoever. IF people were to honour the title/profession a little more, THEN you'd be right in saying that it's as stupid to apply this argument to translation as it is with every other job/profession.
Let's put it this way: Anyone who's halfway decent with math and numbers can be a cashier at Walmart, anyone with decent enough knowledge of two languages can call themselves a translator and work as one in most of the developed world. Anyone with halfway decente knowledge of the Japanese language (and maybe culture) will be able to produce a readable translation (i.e. better than an Interheart inhouse translation or SakuraGame MTLs).
|#94 by being|
2019-12-25 at 22:30
I don't think pointing out both good and bad is necessary at all. Not in every situation. If you are a professional critic, you may want to learn to do this. If you are merely a consumer/fan, there are many others just like you, so whatever you can bring to the table is valuable in and of itself, since it is part of the bigger picture. Case in point: this thread. Reading the entire thread and all the viewpoints within paints a nuanced picture. Maybe some people have only pointed out negative things, but that doesn't mean their input is entirely without value. I'll repeat my previous point that thoughtfulness isn't excluded by whatever is contained in a forum post. Most things we could bring ourselves to say will always remain unsaid. People will say whatever they think is most important to say. If a lot of people talk negatively without saying a single positive thing, all that tells us is that they think that is the most important thing to say. Also, good and bad things about translations have different results. Whereas a very good translation (Grisaia, Saya no uta, for example) elevates the results, a bad one sours it. While that might sound like two opposites, they have a completely different impact on a person. Translations soured by poor choices can ruin an entire work, but a great translation can never save an entire work. This is just life in general. Bear with me as I use the dreaded food analogy, but think about the difference between eating something utterly disgusting and something delicious. I'm pretty confident the former will have a bigger impact on a person, and the same is true for a translation. A single awful translation decision (let's say, the whole Dude thing in that one other game) can ruin the experience, but translating Dude properly wouldn't exactly have been very memorable or given people much to talk about.
|#95 by freshift|
2019-12-25 at 22:31
|It's curious these people would post "What about this? What about that?" but never would cite the Japanese line and why the translation is wrong.|
In this particular thread, comparison between the two versions was only possible because I, who didn't even bothered to buy let alone play a copy of the translated version, could identify those 'butchered lines' from the original game and came up with the original line to offer comparisons.
So after offering comparisons with the corroborating original lines I'm now being talked how there's no point in citing examples because "they would defend however absurd the translation is"...? One of the above post even makes it crystal clear that they aren't interested in actual, constructive discussion, at all, but instead came here only to rant about.
Perhaps I should've realize sooner that the point of this discussion wasn't about the actual quality of the said translation but how they perceive about it.Last modified on 2019-12-25 at 22:31
|#96 by rampaa|
2019-12-26 at 05:31
|#95 Since you think it somehow matters that you were the only one who cited a Japanese line, I will cite a few others for you. Enjoy!|
You're an actual scam artist, dude...
Later and all that.
Hi and all that.
Yeah, deal or whatever.
Okey dokie, artichokey.
Nani the fuck?
Oh, thank ya so much, kiddos! You two are too good to me.
Do I even ask?
P-Pack up your things and scram! We're done here for the day!
Hah. You're lying out of your ass.
What?! Screw you! Buy me some now!
Mamma mia, my oh my... None of these monkey-brains are gonna listen to a thing I say.
You son of a--! I NEVER SAID THAT!!
I don't see any chance!
Wanna try not being an offensive asshole?!
Explain it for me because apparently I don't know what!
Wah wah. Cry me a river.
Go easy on the hate, seriously.
Holy camole, this is so freaking awkward.
Ahh, mobile game, right? That kinda BS is normal. What is that phrase people use, Desire Sensor? When you want something bad, you won't get it no matter what.
Wowee, Nana-peen♪ You're so bold with a capital B.
Does everyone know already? FFS.
Oy, fuck-o. If you don't want as ass-beatin', hand over my damn hairbrush this instant.
Bye, Mom! Bye, Dad!
What? But we're only on episode three!
I'm the ballsiest, you know me! A little smell ain't gonna scare me away.
Muy bien, Brother Dearest! I always knew you were one of my own!
Drats, my plan for an accidental first kiss failed.
Sousuke, you sick-ass perv.
I was waiting to be graced with one of your glorious references, Onii-chan... That's what I wuv you for.Last modified on 2019-12-26 at 05:41
|#97 by freshift|
2019-12-26 at 07:49
|I'm scratching my head while trying to figure what makes them examples of bad translation. Some lines such as [兄妹から揃って死を促されると堪らんな] - [Go easy on the hate, seriously.] I'll have to delve into the original game to grasp the context but some lines are just plain sense-for-sense translation, I assume you may already know about words like 了解 or 自業自得 and the way and context these words are used in Japanese. In general I don't see what makes, for example, translating the context where the character overreact in a foolish way and utter some English fragments, which are foreign but familiar and widely used by Japanese audiences themselves, into the overreacting character uttering easily understood foreign words, to American audiences that is, or even "Nani the fuck" in a foolish way, is a bad translation.|
I guess you probably wanted the localized version to remain faithful to the Japanese background without conforming to American audiences and without localizing the game's general language into American slang culture. And given examples provided here perhaps they went a bit overboard in fitting the original context into American language. That however does not make it a badly translated version and calling it a 'rewrite' is unjustified.Last modified on 2019-12-26 at 07:56
|#98 by soketsu|
2019-12-26 at 09:20
|I'm kindda worried about the h-scene dialogue... watch|
|#99 by funnerific|
2019-12-26 at 10:17
|#96 looks like a pretty good comedy TL to me.|
|#100 by mrkew|
2019-12-26 at 10:52
|It's funny how he predicted this white-knighting in #84.|