|#1 by pkkodama|
2019-06-15 at 22:26
|Answer to #62 beliar:|
Christianity is a theme of Dies Irae and deserves to have a discussion, just like all the other themes that the visual novel has. The characters talked a lot about the things that I wrote especially in the first page, and in Wilhem's side story there's a nun preaching the Christianity's doctrine, with Beatrice worrying about whether she is living according to her doctrine and apologizing to her when Wilhem makes remarks against her religion, meaning that the author is aware of what is probably offensive to a Christian.
You shouldn't have locked that thread just because you personally find the topic inadequate according to your own view on visual novels. I didn't just randomly make that thread in the page of an eroge that's basically all about pornography; I specifically made it in the list of related discussions for Dies Irae, so whether the database is probably 85% dedicated to porn or not is irrelevant in this case. Dies Irae is what matters here. And again, this is a visual novel database, and not a porn game database. I'm quite sure that in most games that have porn scenes in them those scenes take a lot less time than the rest of the story. In the 15+ or all ages versions of those games those scenes are removed without affecting at all the story.
You were really wrong in using my #55 reply as an example to show that it basically devolved into personal insults even though most users were aiming to insult me and Christianity itself in their posts instead of discussing about Christianity's aspects of the game. warfoki himself admitted that he hadn't even played Dies Irae. And what I wrote in #55 wasn't a personal insult; I was objectively describing his situation, the guy clearly has a very poor knowledge of Christianity and already lost all his decency because of pornography, as he proved in #59. I kindly told him what he should do in his life to improve himself. He should have thanked me for that. Everyone knows that watching porn is a perverted thing. Accusing me of preaching "some religious nonsense" is clearly a lot more offensive than anything that I wrote.
Anyways, I'm glad that I gave a second chance to the author by starting to play Interview with Kaziklu Bey after finishing Dies Irae. Instead of making a priest talking about his personal preference to the concept of reincarnation and telling Ren that we don't have free will, this time he decided to make a nun genuinely defending the doctrine of her religion without using sarcasm to offend it. I'm even considering the possibility that he may have converted to Christianity during the interval of time between the production of the two games.Last modified on 2019-06-16 at 07:40
|#2 by truetakuma|
2019-06-15 at 22:52
|Sigh. I was under the impression what I said, which is pretty obvious to say the least, would make @OP understand here is not the place to discuss theology. |
You are not defending your religion you are just eager to virtue signaling. If you were realty interested in showing the good side of your religion you would make a effort in understanding others views even if people are jerks to you since you would be showing the good sides of your religion through your attitude and not being a nuisance in a anime pornu site.
I am not religious nor do I think atheists are morally inferior or superior than any other person (religious or not). You should study your own religion before spouting that since even Thomas Aquinas knew there is a universal morality regardless of belief and for your own religion faith > morality, so, why you are not praying or something instead of being 'offended' by a visual novel?Last modified on 2019-06-16 at 06:27
|#3 by warfoki|
2019-06-15 at 22:53
|Yeah, we absolutely need a continuation of that nonsense thread... Not.|
You were really wrong in using my #55 reply as an example to show that it basically devolved into personal insults even though most users were aiming to insult me and Christianity itself
Right, let's just oh-so-conveniently forget about your self-righteous flamebait, open hostility towards people not sharing your beliefs, and necroing the long since dead thread for no reason, all before I came into the picture. Because none of that had ANYTHING to do with the thread getting locked of course. (Yes, this was sarcasm.)
I was objectively describing his situation, the guy clearly has a very poor knowledge of Christianity and already lost all his decency because of pornography, as he proved in #59
Objective? You call that objective? Try looking the word up in a thesaurus sometimes, because it doesn't mean what you think it does. Also, continuing with your bigoted insults does not help your case.
Wasting time in listening to jesus-botherers is pretty much the exact opposite of what I'd call "life-improvement". Your ignorance is in league of its own, so excuse me if I'm not taking life-coaching advice from such a dubious source.
And you are preaching religious nonsense. What you can't wrap your head around is that for an atheist like me, you holy book and god is about as credible and sensible than ancient Greek mythologies with Zeus throwing lightning bolts from the top of Mount Zeus. Or that we are all hosting Thetan bodysnatcher spirits in our bodies. Or that the world was made by a woman and a man dreaming that a god was dreaming them. Or that the universe is seawater and the Earth was made by a beaver bringing mud to the surface of it to have somewhere to rest. You are an atheist from the perspective of hundreds, even thousands of religions, since you believe none of them, but your own. All I'm different in is that I don't make that exception and discard them all as what they are, superstitious nonsense.Last modified on 2019-06-15 at 22:55
|#4 by pkkodama|
2019-06-15 at 23:33
|#2 by truetakuma|
1) Yeah, I agree with that, I did not necessarily expect a well versed scholastic presentation of the christian religion, and I'm not butthurt.
2) Fair enough.
3) Yes, it's obviously a sin, but not all visual novels have eroticism in them.
4) That's really unfortunate. When I look at the list of visual novel of people who claim to be atheists, accusing Christianity to be a nonsense, and notice that most of the visual novels that they have are hardcore porn, that's just another evidence to me that atheism is indeed a synonym for immorality. It's a quite obvious matter: when people start believing that there's no God objectively judging what's is correct or incorrect in their actions, they start making their own moral rules according to their own conveniences, and the result is all the debauchery that we see in today's society.Last modified on 2019-06-15 at 23:39
|#5 by warfoki|
2019-06-16 at 00:37
|So I should take moral guidance from a pro-slavery, genocidal deity (among MANY other things)? Thanks, but no thanks. My moral code is a lot less needlessly violent and malevolent than your supposed god's.|
Oh and in case you went through my list (since I'm the only one who was an outspoken atheist in the previous thread AND have an open list) and remarked on that: just goes to show how full of shit you are. The hardcore porn to "normal" VN ratio is 30% to 70%, 70% being the normal titles. And considering that only like 3 of the porn titles were of any real length, I can safely say that I spent more time on Fate/Stay Night alone then on all the hardcore porn titles combined. But then again, what did I expect from a religious zealot but a distortion of reality to make it fit their dogmatic nonsense.
Not that the amount of porn I consume would have any real impact on whether I'm a blessing or blight to the society around me anyway, so even if the ratio would be the other way around, you thinking that you can judge me from your imagined moral high-ground would be equally laughable.Last modified on 2019-06-16 at 00:39
|#6 by surferdude|
2019-06-16 at 00:41
|I think starting a similar thread to the one that was just locked is asking for a ban.|
|#7 by [deleted]|
2019-06-16 at 00:42
Yeah, we absolutely need a continuation of that nonsense thread... Not.Then why are you contributing smh
|#8 by warfoki|
2019-06-16 at 00:46
|Because holier-than-though idiots spewing malicious nonsense from the position of willful ignorance really, REALLY grind my gears. You could say it's a pet-peeve of mine. And I'm going to let them bad-mouth me without any response.|
Is that a wise approach? Probably not. But then again, I never claimed to be a wise man. And I'm stubborn enough to speak up for the very few ideals I do value. Whether it's an online forum or my irl professor, I don't much care.Last modified on 2019-06-16 at 00:46
|#9 by pkkodama|
2019-06-16 at 03:23
|#8 by warfoki|
God is not pro-slavery, and all God's actions were justifiable in order to prevent evil from spreading itself. What happened with Sodom and Gomorrah is a good example to show how fair God's actions were in the Bible. I doubt that you ever read it from beginning to end. Jesus Christ's words in the New Testament are the ones that really matter in terms of morality for Christianity's doctrine, anyways.
You were not the only outspoken atheist in the previous thread with an open list, at least not when I checked a few months ago. Anyways, checking one by one of the visual novels in your list would be insanity, and I obviously didn't do that. It's really creepy how you counted them and made a ratio yourself for the sake of this discussion. I saw a few ones in your recent votes, and you said yourself that you didn't know what I was doing here, since "about half the database is hardcore porn...", as if it were a matter of fact that it's because of pornography that we play visual novels, so you can't blame me for assuming. 30% is already a scary number, and it's most likely not your only source of porn. Like I said before, pornography is an addictive drug, and you will always want more and more of it unless you leave the comfort zone and stop it once and for all.
It's an illusion to think that the amount of porn that you consume has no real impact on your social life. Your obsession with visual novels that can be seen by your 38199 tag votes and 3188 forum posts shows me that you're not well, and religion would be a good way to fix it.
And you're clearly in the wrong place here. You should play Dies Irae first before joining a discussion that was supposed to be about it. You shouldn't have even posted anything in the last thread to begin with, and you're clearly here just to derail the topic.Last modified on 2019-06-16 at 03:24
|#10 by diabloryuzaki|
2019-06-16 at 03:56
|it is like we should discuss about Christianity in dies irae rather than how masada-shi tell us about masadaverse since paradise lost until KKK. if we must talk about it then just open new thread that masada-shi can join too so we can hear more appropriate answer from him rather than continue this pointless thread that even have 2nd edition. should we go to exclusive edition too after this?|
|#11 by forever-here|
2019-06-16 at 04:18
|@7 it's fine if they are just being stupid. but if they are being stupid and forcing their stupid idealism onto others and where I am indirectly affected by said stupid that's where I have issue with. problem is that actions have consequences and most of the time others are affected by it.|
and OP, you really, really, REALLY need to edit your post better. you are jumping from one place to another and there's no cohesion on what you're trying to bring up. here's an example:
God cannot be pro slavery when it is against the 10 commandments "do not steal" and slavery is STEALING other people work under the threat of a whip in their ass.Last modified on 2019-06-16 at 04:26
|#12 by pkkodama|
2019-06-16 at 04:39
|#10 by diabloryuzaki|
Well, I think it's not really completely pointless. In the last thread I accused the game of offending Christianity. But now I'm claiming that Wilhelm's side story makes up for it with, at least in my opinion, quite intelligent discussions about Christianity's doctrine, especially since it has a nun as one of the main characters, that aren't necessarily offensive for Christians and may even leave a positive and inspiring message for these, so perhaps it's worth it to endure the possible offenses from the first game in order to understand the author's whole view.
#11 by forever-here
You're absolutely right; I have to improve my English. And nice example.Last modified on 2019-06-16 at 04:41
|#13 by asaki|
2019-06-16 at 05:47
|Well I guess it's good that we got a 60's years old theologist OP here really passionate to talk about a work that was aimed to Japanese young people.|
|#14 by forever-here|
2019-06-16 at 06:13
|besides I doubt anyone would read this VN and be like "oh, so this is what Christianity and/or catholicism is like huh?"|
|#15 by yorhel|
2019-06-16 at 07:40
|Despite OP's attempt, this thread isn't about Dies Irea at all, and I don't see how that's going to change anytime soon.|
As warfoki already said in #3, attempting to convert atheists to Christianity by referring to the Bible is... an incredible waste of time. Telling people on a porn site that watching porn is bad, without backing that up in any way (hint: atheists don't care about what the Bible says), is also an exercise in futility.
So, another lock. I don't see how a new thread on this topic will be any different, so don't bother trying.
This thread has been locked, you can't reply to it anymore