Is this really a tone work's game?

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#1 by kassadin
2019-07-02 at 19:40
3 games in a row of pure love stories with innocent virgin heroines, and they give us a game of sluts. The main heroine sells her body, then author heroine spread her legs to a man she met just minutes ago. The editor heroine can't possibly be a virgin either at 35 years old.

I feel betrayed. Where is my pure love story tone works!!!Last modified on 2019-07-04 at 16:08
#2 by [deleted]
2019-07-02 at 19:54
Grow up and stop being so sexist.
#3 by tragedydesu
2019-07-02 at 20:41
thx for the informations
i will never play this vn
#4 by tomm01p
2019-07-02 at 21:02
I seriously hope that topics like these are just trolls, but knowing the community, there's a decent chance they aren't.Last modified on 2019-07-02 at 21:08
#5 by iisderp
2019-07-02 at 21:46
So pure love relies on virginity? Don't get me wrong I prefer virgin heroines as well but this is just dumb.
#6 by yepyepyep
2019-07-02 at 22:01
Why does it matter? You'll never fuck a girl anyway, much less a virgin.
#7 by bobjr2000
2019-07-02 at 23:15
please update tags and traits to help others not just ur opinions. Said one of them is prostitute yet no tag or traitLast modified on 2019-07-02 at 23:18
#8 by warfoki
2019-07-02 at 23:34
Mates, we already have a thread (t11602) for this entire virgin / non-virgin nonsense. Please don't start another just run in circles around the topic for three more pages, hitting the EXACT same points again...Last modified on 2019-07-02 at 23:34
#9 by [deleted]
2019-07-03 at 00:12
Once again white knights come riding in to save women they don't even know (some of which don't even exist) from being held accountable for their own actions. Female users please give these sad simps their precious female validation to gratify their egoes so they can shut up already.

Didn't you know OP? Having different standards and value systems concerning relationships from current year leftist dogma is considered sexist. Filthy apostate. You should "open your mind" by only following my subjective leftist moral values. It's all about MEEEE OP. As a leftist I am entitled to your unwaveringly blind obedience.

Honestly it really says more about how a white knight views women when they treat aversion to promiscuity as an attack on ALL women. Are you trying imply something about all women? And we supposedly can't get laid right? So why do you give a shit what our tastes are? Oh right, because you're all full of it and nowhere near as open-minded as you pretend to be.

And I guess all the women involved in the art, voice acting and scenario writing for virgin-only VNs are sexist too. Yup. I hate them so much that I pay them the appropriate amount for services rendered. And they hate women so much that they voluntarily make money off of me. And I bet the patriarchy put them up to it. Poor women slaving away in their sweatshops, unable to think for themselves. How wonderful our strong, independent equals have white knights to do the thinking and speaking for them.

Different businesses provide different services for different people with different preferences. I thought this was common sense but I guess they don't teach common sense in institutes of higher indoctrination.

#8 That thread wasn't entirely about this so too much discussion there would kind of be off topic, wouldn't it?Last modified on 2019-07-03 at 00:15
#10 by warfoki
2019-07-03 at 00:38
That thread was 90% about this absurd virgins vs. sluts discussion, so no, that wouldn't at ALL be off-topic there.

Also, stop projecting that hard mate. I hate post-modern feminism and regressive leftists as much as the next guy, but the idea that virgins and sluts are not the only two possibilities out there is pretty much valid (I can't believe I actually have to point this out to a supposedly adult person... -.-). And the notion that only virgin women are "good" is... beyond asinine. If you seriously think that the only thing you need from a woman for her to be a good romantic partner is an intact hymen at the start of the relationship... I just don't know what to stay to that honestly, that's just idiotic on an entirely new level. In all honesty, reading through that other thread made my head hurt from the amount of stupid.

Personally one of the reasons I kinda stopped reading VNs is because the shy, innocent heroine archetype got really fucking boring. Like, outside of nukiges every single bloody sex scene was the exact same shy, innocent virgin, who never saw a penis before, doing it the first time, saying the same tired old lines, acting the same way. Oh, she was a sassy tsundere with an assertive personality? Or a highly intelligent, pragmatic weirdo? Right the fuck out the window for the sex scene, all girls gotta be shy virgins in bed who needs protagonist-kun's guidance. Sure, it's cute once or twice, after that I just started to skip sex scenes altogether, because I was literally yawning. Like, ffs, do something different every now and then.Last modified on 2019-07-03 at 00:39
#11 by krykry
2019-07-03 at 01:14
I have yet to play it, but that does sound much like what they create under Frill brand (Frill is a sister brand of tone works). The director is also the same guy. For the reference: Enkou Shoujo ~Rikujoubu Yukki no Baai~ Enkou Shoujo 2 ~JK Idol Marin no Baai~
#12 by rampaa
2019-07-03 at 01:18
And the notion that only virgin women are "good" is... beyond asinine.

That's not up to you to decide though. People are free to like whatever they like. If someone likes only virgin girls they can do that. Preferences are preferences. Yours is not more logically valid than anyone else's.

If you seriously think that the only thing you need from a woman for her to be a good romantic partner is an intact hymen at the start of the relationship... I just don't know what to stay to that honestly, that's just idiotic on an entirely new level.

You are strawmanning. "I don't like non-virgins" doesn't equate to "Only thing I need from a woman is her hymen". One can have more than one criterion, I promise. Also "virginity" in this context means much more than an intact hymen.

Personally one of the reasons I kinda stopped reading VNs is because the shy, innocent heroine archetype got really fucking boring.
To each his own. I very much love what you describe as boring.Last modified on 2019-07-03 at 01:20
#13 by warfoki
2019-07-03 at 01:43
If someone likes only virgin girls they can do that.

I mean, I've never said otherwise, something being stupid as all hell never stopped people doing or liking said thing. That's just human nature.

Also "virginity" in this context means much more than an intact hymen.

I was being, quite obviously, facetious. I know that it refers to the entire idea that a woman must be sexually pure as the fresh antarctic snow to be an ideal partner. I was just poking fun of this ludicrously naive idea.

Meh, anything gets boring after a while. Seeing the exact same sex scene over and over with zero creativity gets boring VERY fast. Possibly the most enjoyable sex scenes I remember in non-nukiges were in Katawa Shoujo and to a lesser degree Yume Miru Kusuri, exactly because the writers dared to put some creativity in them, instead of it just being the same old.
#14 by ᔕᕼᖇOOᗰᒪOᖇᗪ
2019-07-03 at 01:46
Thanks for the information, TC. That sounds absolutely fantastic to me, TBH. Virgin sex is a big turn-off to me and I more than welcome heroines with different experiences regarding sex and relationships in love story VNs. I hope to see more of this in the future. Maybe it'll save me that headache caused by rolling my eyes too hard finding out the 28 year old teacher lacks basic knowledge in male anatomy.
#15 by warfoki
2019-07-03 at 01:53
28 year old teacher lacks basic knowledge in male anatomy

God, the virgin milf trope is one of the stupidest shits. Like, okay, I can buy that someone hasn't had sex even that age, whatever. But lines like "Oh, so this is how a man's penis looks like." and "It's getting harder, does that means it's feeling good?" from someone closer to 30 than 20 is just.... hilarious and kills my mood. Like, unless you live in some zealous cult or something (which none of these heroines do), this is ridiculous. Especially in modern-day VNs taking place in the Internet-age. Like, I have a hard time buying that level of ignorance from your typical high-school student heroine, but an adult? Lol, no.Last modified on 2019-07-03 at 01:54
#16 by [deleted]
2019-07-03 at 02:10
You've clearly only scratched the surface of what projection entails. Otherwise you'd realize how not just your post but nearly every post on these boards is some form of projection. Anytime you criticize, judge, discern, or opine, you are projecting your own identity and values outward. Because there is no inherent purpose or value in the world, we create meaning from nothing to give ourselves a sense of purpose. Though I'm aware of this on a logical level, actually practicing it requires the kind of lifestyle a VN reader doesn't have. This isn't a monastary.

How are your preferences in heroines any less arbitrary than someone else's? Nobody bats an eyelash to fetishes, looks, certain personality types, etc. But for some reason people get shit on for preferring virgins. Even though virginity supposedly doesn't matter to them. You don't find it asinine that we're expected to conform our standards for someone else's convenience?

A common misconception people have is that they don't understand that accountability involves more than just law. You see, women aren't entitled to our affection any more or less than we're entitled to theirs. That means, if they decide they prefer sleeping around, they have to deal with people like us not being attracted to them. And if we decide we prefer virgins, we have to deal with our prospective partners count being low to nonexistent. That's where our respective responsibilities lie.

But me, OP or anyone else has zero obligation to conform to anyone else's subjective moral standards. Because at the end of the day, that's all it is. I dodge plenty of VNs that go against my standards but I don't crusade against people who prefer something else. We don't have to have the same values. I'm not going to go to war over some petty disagreement. But I'm not going to pretend these very people aren't responsible for the SJW degradation and co-opting of the entertainment industry in the first place.
#17 by cyric
2019-07-03 at 02:12
>something being stupid as all hell never stopped people doing or liking said thing. That's just human nature.
yeah like being intolerant of other peoples fetishes, human nature
>woman must be sexually pure as the fresh antarctic snow to be an ideal partner. I was just poking fun of this ludicrously naive idea.
a strawman, world isn't black and white and purity is completely subjective, also I'm pretty sure virgins prefer other virgins, nothing wrong in wanting an even playingfield
And I agree sometimes they take it too far with the innocence aspect, but in the end I don't expect virgins to not be akward their first time.Last modified on 2019-07-03 at 02:25
#18 by warfoki
2019-07-03 at 02:36
Right, so you are going to way philosophical to me and intentionally misunderstand my point to avoid having to actually admit to your projection. Alright then.

But for some reason people get shit on for preferring virgins.

I don't give a rat's ass about what heroines you like, not my business. But when people bring this insane mentality to the real world as if it'd be the Victorian era.... yeah, I got plenty of problems with that. I have zero issues with preferring virgins, I got plenty problems with people actually, for real believing that non-virgin women = sluts, because there cannot be anything in between the two. Especially when the same guys talk about going for virgins, as in multiple, making them hypocrites on top of everything else.

And before you'd say "oh, we are just talking about VNs", no you fucking weren't, most of your little rant was about real life, not VNs.

That means, if they decide they prefer sleeping around, they have to deal with people like us not being attracted to them.

I think they'll manage, somehow. :P

But me, OP or anyone else has zero obligation to conform to anyone else's subjective moral standards.

And yet when you see others with different opinions than yours being vocal about it, you are going ballistic over it. Hypocrite much?

I don't crusade against people who prefer something else

Please, when you post this half a page after breaking out in an angry, real-life centered political rant as an answer to a throwaway troll-post, such a claim rings VERY hollow.

yeah like being intolerant of other peoples fetishes, human nature

Oh, I tolerate it alright. Never tried to get people in trouble or hurt them in any way for holding such opinions. Nor do I go around aggressively ranting on people out of the blue, like some people here. With that being said, if I find their opinion stupid, I'm not gonna say otherwise. Or what, are you one of those people who consider not agreeing with someone "verbal assault", "hate speech" or "microagression"?

world isn't black and white

Hmm, it's almost as if that would have been my entire point.

purity is completely subjective

Theoretically, sure. Practically though? We both know that this is bullshit.

also I'm pretty sure virgins prefer other virgins, nothing wrong in wanting an even playingfield

Agreed. How is calling non-virgins sluts and other flowery names is a necessary part of this though?Last modified on 2019-07-03 at 02:46
#19 by cyric
2019-07-03 at 02:46
But when people bring this insane mentality to the real world as if it'd be the Victorian era
What's wrong with liking virgins irl? What's wrong with having an irl fetish?
Also stop fucking strawmanning they have a complete right to their opinions.
And nowhere did he claim all non virgins are sluts.
And yet when you see others with different opinion than your being vocal about it, you are going ballistic over it. Hypocrite much?
Yes being intolerant of intolerance = hypocrisy
Agreed. How is calling non-virgins sluts and other flowery names is a necessary part of this though?
Not everyone does it, that's my point.
Theoretically, sure. Practically though? We both know that this is bullshit .
Not really even a prostitute can be pure in my eyes depending on her motivation.
not agreeing with someone "verbal assault", "hate speech" or "microagression"
He wasn't responding to you really mostly people kinkshaming, I want people to appreciate their fetishes without the ''ugghh creep''.
Sorry for the lots of edits my keyboard is basically ded. Either way it pisses me off because I find both arguments infuriating being a centrist in this regard.Last modified on 2019-07-03 at 02:56
#20 by kazeno
2019-07-03 at 03:01
I don't think OP nor any of you guys read the whole VN. Well, I didn't read everything either but the delinquent girl with rumors about selling her body is a years-old cliche. Can someone confirm the info?

I don't really expect milfs to be a virgin and care even less if they are sub-heroines but the problem with non-virgin in VNs is that they make it the main point and throw it at your face all the time which is as much as a boner killer in a romance story as calling someone else name's during sex. Well, netorare is a big genre so it must be just me.
Besides, I mean, mature and successful woman sleeping around without a care like a dumb young teen is as much fiction as a beautiful 25+ year-old woman being a virgin or as real as rapey VNs where there are no cops and woman loving the act.Last modified on 2019-07-03 at 03:04
#21 by warfoki
2019-07-03 at 03:01
What's wrong with liking virgins irl? What's wrong with having an irl fetish?

I literally told you that half a line later, nice of you to ignore that.

Also stop fucking strawmanning they have a complete right to their opinions.

They absolutely do. Just as I do have a complete right to call their opinions stupid, since I too do have my right to my opinion, even if it disagrees with theirs.

And nowhere did he claim all non virgins are sluts.

He did in the previous thread, but ehh, fair enough. While my post was answer to his, it was mostly motivated by going through that other thread just before, and seeing the posts here as a continuation of that cringefest.

Yes being intolerant of intolerance = hypocrisy

Oh, please, if you seriously feel obligated to do a wall of text rant to what was on the level a 12 old's one-liner after getting killed in CoD, then the internet must be a really terribly triggering place for you.

Not really even a prostitute can be pure in my eyes depending on her motivation.

In that case you are clearly not sharing Goblincrutch's opinion on this matter... so why have became his spokesperson out of the blue?

I don't really expect milfs to be a virgin but the problem with non-virgin in VNs is that they make it the main point and throw it at your face all the time which is as much as a boner killer in a romance story as calling someone else names during sex.

Well, yeah, that's because virgin heroines are so much the norm, that having one not be a virgin is guaranteed to lose you sales (as these two threads illustrate it perfectly), so you don't just throw in a non-virgin heroine and do nothing with the concept. If being non-virgin isn't important, then might as well have her be a virgin and NOT lose those sales. If it is important, then of course it's going to be focus'd on.Last modified on 2019-07-03 at 03:05
#22 by mrkew
2019-07-03 at 03:01
OP simply said that non-virgins cannot be part of a "pure love story", which is true by the definition of the word pure. I don't know why used goods connoisseurs must go completely ballistic every time someone praises the universal virtue of purity/chastity.
#23 by warfoki
2019-07-03 at 03:09
used goods connoisseurs

I dunno, but maybe, just MAYBE your attitude has something to do with that? Just a hunch though.
#24 by cyric
2019-07-03 at 03:15
I literally told you that half a line later, nice of you to ignore that.
Yeah and it was a strawman, things you listed have nothing to do with simply prefering virgins when dating.
They absolutely do. Just as I do have a complete right to call their opinions stupid, since I too do have my right to my opinion, even if it disagrees with theirs.
That's the thing no fetish is stupid, it's the way they are they shouldn't feel stupid for it.
In that case you are clearly not sharing Goblincrutch's opinion on this matter... so why have became his spokesperson out of the blue?
Procrastination doin kanji, and I don't like generalizations, I believe world is really gray, I doubt many would fall in love and then shun the girl for being raped for example. That's what I mean purity being subjective.
#20 Yeah he's just trolling it's obvious.Last modified on 2019-07-03 at 03:19
#25 by mrkew
2019-07-03 at 03:17
Eroge are a place where all your ideals can be realized. If you, thanks to the brainwashing of the modern culture, intentionally pick someone who has loved another man over someone who is pure in heart and body, at least have the awareness to not call it pure love. link

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