|#1 by yorhel|
2019-07-27 at 06:46
|Can someone remind me if we ever made a decision on including Youtube translations as releases? We have a bunch in the database at the moment, but I can't remember if we ever reached a conclusion about it.|
In my opinion they shouldn't be considered a release - a video is by definition not a visual novel and a youtube translation will not actually allow you to play the VN. It's fine to have youtube links on the forums, but considering a VN as "available in a certain language" when it's a youtube TL is rather misleading.
...but that's just my opinion.
|#2 by rampaa|
2019-07-27 at 06:55
a youtube translation will not actually allow you to play the VNI would argue otherwise. For most VNs, watching a Youtube translation would be almost identical to read them with auto mode.
|#3 by harleyquin|
2019-07-27 at 06:59
|Do machine translations make the database? If they don't, the vast majority of YouTube translations are excluded.|
|#4 by savagetiger|
2019-07-27 at 07:31
|I don't consider them valid releases either. It's just a video, it's not like playing it yourself because you can't actually make any of the choices or pick routes.|
I wouldn't consider a text translation up on a website a release either, though I'm not sure if we have any of those here.
|#5 by rusanon|
2019-07-27 at 08:08
|Video is not VN and thus should not be considered as release.|
Do machine translations make the database?No, if translation is obvious MTL it should not be included, unless its official.
|#6 by kratoscar2008|
2019-07-27 at 08:15
|I say include them. Its not like your experience drastically changes between watching some read than read yourself.|
|#7 by harleyquin|
2019-07-27 at 08:25
No, if translation is obvious MTL it should not be included, unless its official.
As far as I'm aware there isn't a single VN company out there that allows consumers to legally air the official translations they paid to produce for free on Youtube.
Although there's no difference between watching the game being played on Youtube with an official translation and actually playing it (for ADVs), it doesn't warrant a separate release since they're really using the same release.
|#8 by eacil|
2019-07-27 at 08:53
|I see no reason to not include them if the tl is legit. A tl is not something you find on every street corner and knowing someone spent much much time translating a vn even if it's to give us a subpar experience on a streaming website is something I would consider important enough to figure in the db. I agree with Rampaa that watching a kinetic would be very close to actually pressing return and has nothing to do with the script being dumped on a blog.|
I wouldn't for the life of me watch one of those playlists but I value the information like knowing Zakobot exist. There shouldn't be a lot of those in the first place so I don't understand why bother?
Note: of course, a video translation should figure on vndb if and only if there is not alternative (and certainly not if it's a recording of a translation but I don't think we are talking about that).
|#9 by surferdude|
2019-07-27 at 08:56
|I've never used a YouTube-based translation, but I imagine most of them come in more than one video clip, right? |
And if one of those video clips gets reported by "concerned individuals" for copyright infringement or inappropriate content or whatnot and gets removed, your reading experience is pretty much fucked.
So I say don't include them on VNDB. It's patch or GTFO as far as I'm concerned.
|#10 by kiru|
2019-07-27 at 13:10
|Given that you can't play the game, it's pretty obvious that a youtube translation doesn't mean that the game is just available in a different language. You could argue that it was simply released on a different platform and it simply works like that there. This would however mean that ANY full playthrough on a video would qualify as a release, translation or not. Given how stupid that is, and the extremely grey legal area, I'd say it's not worth to keep those.|
|#11 by onorub|
2019-07-27 at 14:09
|Keep in mind that the "you can't play the game" argument means you are disqualifying read-along translations in general, not just youtube tls.|
Overall, i wouldn't classify them as releases, but they should definitely have threads made about whenever they pop out.Last modified on 2019-07-27 at 14:12
|#12 by yorhel|
2019-07-27 at 14:28
Keep in mind that the "you can't play the game" argument means you are disqualifying read-along translations in generalDo we have any other read-along translations in the DB? I don't think we ever included separate text or VNR translations.
|#13 by roadi|
2019-07-27 at 14:38
|Another point against these are that they can (and probably do) disappear at the whim of Google.|
Patches can be easily distributed and archived due to their size, but many-hour videos certainly can not.
Cataloging what might have existed (hard to verify, once purged) in the past is likely going to send some people looking for a needle in a haystack.
|#14 by sakurakoi|
2019-07-27 at 14:43
Do we have any other read-along translations in the DB? I don't think we ever included separate text or VNR translations.r659?
|#15 by ffthewinner|
2019-07-27 at 14:57
|i think we shouldnt include them. watching someone play something is completely different to playing it yourself afterall.|
|#16 by namingmegently|
2019-07-27 at 15:02
|@12: r21957, Diabolik Lovers: Haunted Dark Bridal, Diabolik Lovers More, Blood, r49953, r50190, r34262, r64219, r28735, r45683, r44859, Shingeki no Kyojin: Lost in the Cruel World, r51998Last modified on 2019-07-27 at 15:50|
|#17 by rampaa|
2019-07-27 at 18:38
|If YouTube translation is the only translation for a given language, then the existence of it is a very valuable information for the DB. Not having it as a release would mean, even though there is a translation for the said VN, we can't find it through VNDB. After all we cannot search for threads in the same way we search for releases.|
The argument about how those videos might get unavailable in due time does not make much sense. Everything may become unavailable in due time but VNDB intends to archieve those things anyway. And in the same way a video might get down, a patch can get DMCAed. In the same way how a patch can be re-uploaded so can be videos and so on.
The argument about how any commentary-free full playthrough would then qualify is valid. And I agree with it for the most part. But, it's not like we can't create a simple guideline for this issue. We could simply say that "Unless the said video list has a new translation, then it does not qualify as a release." and be done with it.Last modified on 2019-07-27 at 18:39
|#18 by kratoscar2008|
2019-07-27 at 18:53
|Plus we DO have TL patches that allegedly existed but cant be found anywhere because the TLs went under. Like Fortuna having english TL but no one has a patch. We are basically just keeping them out of hearsay.|
#15 Unless the VN has gameplay or a bunch of dialogue choicess like the good old dating sims there is little difference between "playing" and watching. Most current VNs barely have choices that harely affects anything as they are just flags to unlock a route.
|#19 by kiru|
2019-07-27 at 19:54
|@11: I don't know how you get that idea. Read-along translations REQUIRE you to play the game. Yes, in its original version, but still. If there'd be a ton of those, maybe some more special treatment might be necessary, but as it is, those are fine. And completely different from videos of a playthrough.|
@18: Let's not go to "VNs aren't games". Not everyone wants auto-mode (in fact, most people serious about VNs don't, as it's never the right comfortable speed), and there are route choices, flavor choices, the ability to easily check the backlog or replay voices, separate sound options, muting a specific voice, text speed... I can continue here but I think the point is clear. Videos are different, period. Visual novels are not anime.Last modified on 2019-07-27 at 19:58
|#20 by rampaa|
2019-07-27 at 20:11
|#19 None of those things is a requirement of being a VN. I could have made a shitty port of a given VN without those things and it would be still included in the DB.|
|#21 by onorub|
2019-07-27 at 20:58
|#19 Well, tls with video are meant to give a better idea of where the person reading along is at. Then again, VN let's plays are meant to be for experience comparisons and it doesn't stop people from using it for other ways, so fair enough.|
|#22 by weter|
2019-07-27 at 21:13
|In some VNs (in which there are many choices, several options in every choice and they do not affect the further plot, but small branches of the dialogues are different), people who make videos can choose only one option in the options and thus miss part of the dialogue and maybe some kind of storyline.|
And such games as Evenicle , Eiyuu*Senki , Gears of Dragoon ~Meikyuu no Uroboros~ would be difficult to consider as a full-fledged Realtime 3D or Gears of Dragoon ~Meikyuu no Uroboros~ or RPG game.
You can not extract the text from the video to check it in any dictionaries or else where.
Lord, no, listen as some man will translate the text written and voiced for loli or voice sex scenes or something like that, oh Lord plz no.
Only if this is done as some very specially marked release and which can be removed from the search will be ok.Last modified on 2019-07-27 at 21:15
|#23 by diabloryuzaki|
2019-07-27 at 21:58
|usually someone who do youtube translation is people who want to translate that vn but can't extract or repack the scenario files again. the problem is people think that youtube translation is auto, text speed is too fast, can't choose which route, want to read bad end but not included in there etc. no dude, except auto or something like that, youtube translating usually will translate it fully unless the translator is not translator, troller, do half ass translation etc. in the past i have read fortissimo nachten phase translation from youtube and the work itself is good and the translator do it to every route iirc. another one do for riddle joker too|
try to open this link to see their quality by your own
nachten phase (click sub option to activate soft sub): link
riddle joker (the sub is hard subbed in video): link
as long as it is translation work and we can read, hear and experience it as vn, i will accept youtube translation as release. and well, actually youtube translation is more transparent and we can give comment directly to translator if we found something wrong in their work rather than email them and almost no solution or maybe we can't even email them since beginningLast modified on 2019-07-27 at 21:58
|#24 by roadi|
2019-07-27 at 22:44
|I'd argue that a translation is by itself not a "release" if it is not integrated into the game itself - would you consider Youtube a valid VN engine?|
You don't seem to understand just how volatile (likely illegal) Youtube videos can be, and what the implications are of file sizes in the gigabytes versus those in the megabytes.
Of course, even official releases can become unattainable, but mostly there is at least some information left behind; Youtube videos are likely to disappear along with the information of them even existing, no?
|#25 by usagi|
2019-07-27 at 22:50
just leaving it hereLast modified on 2019-07-27 at 22:52
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