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#51 by warfoki
2019-10-27 at 03:49
Who pissed in your cereal mate?
#52 by fuukanou
2019-10-27 at 04:17
Apart from the fact the #50 is being super salty about it, the point about "making it purposely annoying to make you pay for it" seems like a pretty fair opinion. I must say I feel that Yorhel is perfectly justified in doing what it takes to pay the bills, because in the end no Yorhel money = no/stagnant site. It's just it hurts more for us because we were used to it not being there, and it's a temporary backlash from it being added that wouldn't be there if the stars etc had been there from the start. I must emphasise I don't think that it's anywhere near as annoying as #50 is making it out to be, please spare me the hate.

#50 should probably talk about what this "actual technical issue" instead of glossing over it to see if it's actually worth taking action over.Last modified on 2019-10-27 at 04:19
#53 by NowItsAngeTime
2019-10-27 at 20:41
Figures the biggest crybabies are the ones not supporting!
#54 by hinoe
2019-10-28 at 05:30
I'm sure someone will say this, so let me call it: inb4 tl;dr.

Who pissed in your cereal mate?

Assuming you have at least average intelligence, you ought to be able to realize that (1) from the fact that I'm telling yorhel off, it follows that he's the one who did; (2) sometimes, the "wise" part of "wisecracking" means keeping it to yourself; and (3) this is one such time. I assume you don't fail the "at least average intelligence" test, so I'm assigning you those three points as homework or something.

I made a rational, relevant, on-topic point. You would be wise to either address my point or stay out instead of acting like middle school peanut gallery and picking fights you don't actually want to be picking. Or maybe you do want to pick fights, but that's your problem, not mine, so keep me out of them and yourself busy fighting someone else. And in case I need to make it obvious, let me point out that I respond with arrogant dismissiveness proportional to the perceived worthlessness of what I am responding to, and your post is measuring pretty high on that scale.

Just so we're clear, I am not here to stroke your ego with a presentation of my point that pleases you, I am here to present my point to the one person to whom it concerns, who does not happen to be you, and I do not even care to stroke *his* ego. Now, I do not dispute how important you are to this site, how much you help it, or how much yorhel might care about you, but none of that is any of my or my point's concern. If I made myself clear, let's move on; if not, I'll move on by myself because I do not feel like explaining it more than once. Issue closed.

I must emphasise I don't think that it's anywhere near as annoying as #50 is making it out to be

I'm not making it out to be annoying, I'm making a statement on principle. I have even described those points (minus the forced stylesheet, which hurts my fucking eyes) as "minor griping". That doesn't mean I have to applaud making paying a prerequisite to restore reasonable behavior. I can get a userscript to remove the stars and I can force the stylesheet locally and replace the vanity name with the regular name or lowercase it or whatever, I can do all sorts of other things to "fix" the problems on my end. JS may be shit in a number of ways, and it very much is, but userscripts are also pretty fucking useful. So that's kind of not the point.

The point is that creating annoyances and telling you to pay for the fixed version is what corrupt politicians do; down here, we call it something that I could translate as "create a complication to sell a simplification". That's not only bad on its own, it's also half a step away from paywalling new and even existing features. Are we going to see a paywalled (user) VN list next? Or a paywalled wishlist? Or is it going to be just the new features? And are they going to be released to the non-paying plebs eventually? See, that's where this reasoning goes. And then I won't be saying I told you, because I won't be bothering with any of this more than this once. It already stinks enough even now. And you know, you can think what you like, but my decades of life haven't made me blind to experience, and I've seen enough projects ruined by the best of intentions taken down the wrong path.

And you know what else, insofar as disabling misfeatures is concerned, I bet there will be someone eager to make such scripts and host them on github and share the links until everyone has done it, and then it's a whack-a-mole game with the script, yorhel changing code to break it to restore his desired status quo and script authors fixing them. Brilliant usage of coding time, really, but as I said, kind of not the point.

should probably talk about what this "actual technical issue"

But what exactly is the question? If you wish for a description of the issue, there is only one possible description for unicode support problems for non-ancient software that isn't *complete* garbage (perhaps a higher hurdle than it should be, but still) and it's "characters turn into boxes". Do you mean to ask when that happens? Maybe why that happens? Because those are far more complex questions and I cannot answer them accurately. I shall elaborate.

Half the Linux distributions out there break fonts every few updates (which in rolling release means anytime, all the time); Windows 7 for one has sketchy behavior on that front (in my experience it pretty much breaks and then unbreaks when it wants to); several browsers (including major ones) have small fringe support issues that I don't understand; and so on. Sometimes it's a minor inconvenience (relatively small sets that I care nil about such as emoji characters turn into boxes and that's it), sometimes it's not a problem at all, and it can be total fucking disaster under the correct conditions.

Sometimes restarting the browser fixes it, sometimes (particularly on Windows) a system restart will help, sometimes it just stays broken until it fixes itself or forever. I haven't isolated any cause. Seems to happen with emoji more often than with anything else, though I've recently seen CJK being temporarily broken once in an Arch system following font updates (that one was fixed by a browser restart). It's a "when the stars align" sort of thing both for breaking and fixing, and in all honesty that doesn't surprise me; it's software, and complex software at that, so heisenbugs aren't anything otherworldly.

Figures the biggest crybabies are the ones not supporting!

Figures that there would be an idiot out there to think that money can buy respect, not to mention to think that money is the only way to help; the typical rich brat line of thinking almost makes me wonder whether the money comes from the speaker's parents rather than the speaker's own person. One item off the mandatory stupidity list: the inflated-chest, self-important ignoramus confusing mouth and ass and letting the latter do the talking.

Refer to my second and third paragraphs to warfoki; the part where I mention that he matters to this site aside, I'm pretty sure I'd just copy/paste them to you, but I dislike repeating myself.Last modified on 2019-10-28 at 05:33
#55 by yorhel
2019-10-28 at 07:46
it's also half a step away from paywalling new and even existing features
Indeed it is, and that's why I appreciate it when people complain if I take things too far. I'm pretty sure this isn't it, though. There's a very good reason why the Patreon rewards are what they are: vanity features. They do not compromise the site functionality or the database in any way whatsoever, and that's very much intentional. I *know* there are a thousand other ways to monetize VNDB and I chose to go with the one that has the lowest chance of actually making money.

(That said, I have no strong personal objections to short-time limited features either, but I have no plans to do that for now. One of my favorite sites has a time-limited paywall and I wholly support them for it.)

I bet there will be someone eager to make such scripts and host them on github and share the links until everyone has done it
It is a minor misfeature and nothing more than a slight incentive for the lowest-tier reward. I have no intention to spend time breaking such scripts, as it would be an utter waste of time from a monetary point of view as well.

Half the Linux distributions out there break fonts every few updates
Having run Gentoo as my primary OS for the past 8 years and Arch before that, sure. But it hasn't happened in quite a while and I'm starting to suspect that Firefox has its own font(s) and font rendering workarounds nowadays. Emoji don't work in my terminal but Firefox renders them just fine. And in any case, a few wonderful Unicode boxes in non-essential parts of the site for 0.0001% of users is something I consider acceptable breakage. I've never seen broken emoji support turn into a fucking disaster (well, apart from rare browser crashes that got fixed in a day because those tend to be marked as critical security vulnerabilities - and such things can happen even with the most basic HTML, so that's an odd consideration).
#56 by echozulu
2019-10-28 at 10:16
#54

Jesus Christ mate, calm your tits. You don't have to write elaborate wannabe-intellectual novels to get your point across, it also feels pretentious af even though you're hating on so-called
he typical rich brat line of thinking
you don't appear to be any better than them and shouldn't be surprised about any ad-hominems that you might've been subjected to in this comment. Feels like I'm writing to a fedora-wearing troll from 4chan instead of an actual human being tbph.

I personally have no problem with the way yorhel has implemented features.

All this crying just feels like it comes from the same people who can't accept that paying for VNs is a thing you can and SHOULD do. This site has been free for however many years and yorhel didn't complain once about it, but now that he decided to spend more time implementing some rather useful features and is giving you the choice to support him in doing so or continue using it for free with no changes to the actual functionality, people start coming out of the woodworks to scream bloody murder. uBlockOrigin gets rid of the 'Become a Patreon' button and that is the most obvious and glarin change.Last modified on 2019-10-28 at 10:16
#57 by warfoki
2019-10-28 at 11:30
@Hinge: And now take two steps back and realize that you wrote an aggressive, pseudo-intellectual wall-of-text... over a goddamn fucking star icon. Like... you want to tell the admin how to run the site and what to do with his Patreon in this manner, while you use the site for absolutely free. Your entire post reads as if I have opened up r/choosingbeggars instead of VNDB.

Let me break this down for you:

- You are not entitled to the use of VNDB.
- You are most definitely not entitled to tell Yorhel how to run his own damn site.
- You are not entitled to the respect of others.
- You can share your opinion, obviously, but you are not entitled to the agreement of others. And with this attitude, you will successfully alienate even the ones who would agree with you.

And honestly, if you think you will piss me off with this silly rant... nah, mate, after you are old enough and been on the internet enough, human stupidity becomes an easy to ignore background noise for the most part. Your post is just one out of the the many different forms of idiocy on the web I come across day by day.Last modified on 2019-10-28 at 17:58
#58 by risus
2019-10-28 at 13:46
Good idea! I will surely donate some money in future.
#59 by PabloC
2019-10-28 at 22:18
I'm all for supporting VNDB, but I can't say I'm a big fan of supporting Patreon along with it. >_>
I'll use it for now, but some alternatives would be very welcome. PayPal is one option, but there's also Subscribestar (link) - it seems like a nice alternative to Patreon that isn't run by unhinged political activists (at least for now). I'd say they're worth checking out.
#60 by hinoe
2019-10-29 at 06:47
I have no strong personal objections to short-time limited features either
but I have no plans to do that ***for now***

You make my points for me.

@echozulu: I am not angry, I am making a point and being as emphatic about it as the point deserves. I am also not attacking anyone, I am returning unwarranted aggression. And you are attacking me while talking about attacks I did not make. Quit grasping at straws.

@warfoki: you must enjoy talking to yourself, or to an imaginary audience. Do it without me.
#61 by yorhel
2019-10-29 at 07:05
You make my points for me.
I thought your point was that you didn't trust me to balance the integrity and usefulness of VNDB against the need for monetization, but now I see that your idea of acceptable monetization strategies is just far more limited than mine in the first place. Not much I can do about that other than to say that I disagree.

some alternatives would be very welcome.
I wanted to add Paypal, but the VAT administration overhead is not something I want to deal with at the moment. Looks like SubscribeStar does handle that, so that looks like a promising alternative.
#62 by xg70d
2019-10-29 at 07:40
@hinoe I don't even get what's so wrong with a user having his own custom page that you don't want to see. Why not just refrain from looking at any starred profile if you don't want to hurt your eyes? I mean, wiill you even lose anything if you're not able to see anyone's profile?

And yea, comparing this to the level of corrupt politicians is an exaggeration. I can't fathom how you came to that analogy from a mere custom profile page.
#63 by azengar
2019-10-29 at 13:52
Won't say that I would appreciate non vanity features to be limited to patrons but regardless, you have every right to monetize this website as you see fit.
You've invested a lot of your time into making this website a reality and you never asked for anything in return or even put in advertisements and that is something I respect very much.
I can understand how someone can disagree with the new changes but you've done a lot for the community and I believe you deserves the support.
#64 by truetakuma
2019-11-01 at 16:40
There is a simple solution for all your taxing and VAT problems: Bitcoins.

Edit: although I do agree with @50.
Putting anything behind a paywall, and in the case of vndb, something that never happened for years, just feel tad bit like the nefarious cash-shop/monetization schemes you see in MMORPGS.


Due to how nasty ads are prevalent, I am more cynical to think at least yorhel did not put some server-side ads on the vndb home page or the vns screenshots. For those who don't know, you can always block the annoying Patreon ad with uBlock Origin Firefox or ChromeLast modified on 2019-11-01 at 17:18
#65 by ffthewinner
2019-11-03 at 20:41
Continue to do as you are doing admin. the site rocks. ignore the extremely entitled crybabies that make mountains out of molehills please. #63 said it best.Last modified on 2019-11-03 at 20:43

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