Rating 'bad' games

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#1 by barfboy
2019-11-06 at 15:47
How do you guys rate bad games that you pretty well expect to be bad? I'm talking mostly Miel games here but there's certainly plenty of examples
Kyokon Tensei ~Onna Dake no Isekai de Himekishi-tachi o Tanetsuke Shihai! Subete no Tami ga Niku Onaho Desu. Harami Ana ni Seishi-sama Omegumi Kudasai♪~

I mean I don't expect much from Miel but that's exactly what they're supposed to be. Nobody making these thinks, 'oh boy, let's make some art!'. They're just intentionally silly games with no substance with lots of sex and pregnant girls. Do you guys rate these games as a comparison for all games or do you rate these games on expectations?

Should I give Tsun Mazo Maou to Pure Ero Yuusha ga Arawareta! ~Icha Ero! 3P! Shuraba mo Ari!? Ore no Ue de Kozukuri Last Battle!~ a 3 because it's a bad game or a 7 because it's exactly what it's supposed to be? I'm going to mull it over for awhile but it would be interesting to see what everyone else thinks.
#2 by iisderp
2019-11-06 at 16:02
I rate games on how good they are for their type of game. I could give a nukige a 10/10 (I never have but could) and I also gave Grisaia no kajitsu a 10/10. That doesn't mean I think they're equal by any means. The nukige may just be really good as far as nukiges go.
#3 by amittesukku
2019-11-06 at 16:23
I just rate by enjoyment - I've given Narcissu a 3/10, not because I hoped it would be good (based on what I've read about it), but because I didn't like reading it.

Then again, I have this exact problem when it comes to anime. My average anime rating is at ~7/10 (in comparison to the average VN rating being ~5/10), which is probably only thanks to the fact that at some point I started to venture out and watch some mediocre stuff. When it comes to your usual anime, however, I do sometimes feel weird rating a series too high/low because it didn't bring me enjoyment even though it did that for a lot of other people (or at least it looked good).Last modified on 2019-11-06 at 16:24
#4 by fuukanou
2019-11-06 at 17:11
I've had this same problem with short games vs. long games. I've realised I'm more likely to games with short, moving plots better scores because I play them all in one sitting and so I experience the whole game from start to end at once, unlike a longer game where I have to take breaks and forget things. They're too short for anything that doesn't push the plot forwards, and so the average enjoyment is much higher than a longer game which needs more build-up and changes-of-pace (leading to a lower average enjoyment). As a result, I tend to think I enjoy shorter games more, and thus I give them higher scores. I could compensate for it by doing some sort of accumulated enjoyment, but this would overly favour long games over short ones.

For now I've rated things comparing it with other games I've played, but I don't know if this is a good idea either.
#5 by sakurakoi
2019-11-06 at 17:57
I suggest to stop rating games in the first place.

Either you recommend games based on...
-price vs content/joy time
-info readily available vs actual truth encountered
-target audience standards&expectations vs meeting those
or you don't.

Ratings don't help anyone except making popular works more popular while no one care about how niche or unpopular works are rated, folks look for actual reviews which address those three points i.e:

"Will I get my moneys worth?"
"Does the description read true?"
"Who is the target audience and could they like it?"
#6 by echozulu
2019-11-06 at 18:10
#5 Is making a good point because I don't actually use the rating system at all, I rather use the search/tag function and refine it so that I get my desired VN(s).

If I were to give ratings I would do it like #2. Would you compare apples to oranges or Open World RPGS like The Witcher to an FPS like Call of Duty or to more tactical team-shooters like Overwatch and R6S?

If a Miel Nukige does its job well at stimulating me, it gets a good rating (same goes for Utsuge+Nakige for making me feel depressed or making me cry, but with them a good story is also much more important to even achieve those goals). If it doesn't, depending on the BM/SoC used, CG quality and maybe if the writing doesn't make any sense at all, it gets a lower rating. I don't compare it to FSN or Saya no Uta or whatever else there is because they're a totally different ball game.

I honestly don't get the downvoting/giving something a low rating because it's the cool thing to do. Judge and compare every VN among its peers. Miel's most well-known titles are short fantasy/isekai harems and they're probably filling that niche pretty well. If you broaden your view and include fantasy/isekai harems of any length then Miel doesn't hold a candle to Lune's titles.

Compare Nukige with other Nukige, Utsuge with other Utsuge, Nakige with other Nakige, Moege with othe Moege...Last modified on 2019-11-06 at 18:11
#7 by barfboy
2019-11-07 at 04:16
I think most of you don't realize how .... uhh, nukige Miel games are.

Best way to explain it.

A well written Visual Novel is a turkey dinner.
A moege is a salad
A nukige is a bowl of candy
Miel games are a half used cigarette you find on the bathroom floor

They really aren't even trying. A nukige like Imouto Paradise for example (one of the higher rated nukige I see) is Hamlet compared to games like Tenshi to Akuma to Elf ga Oyome ni Kimashita! ~Minna Haramase Love icha Harem~

But sometimes you just want a cigarette.
#8 by dk382
2019-11-07 at 04:57
I will rate VNs on a curve to an extent, keeping in mind the kind of VN it is and what it hopes to achieve, but that only goes so far. A low-effort piece of garbage that isn't trying to achieve anything other than maybe make a few bucks on steam is still a piece of garbage. I'm not about to go full IGN and be like "it may be a piece of shit, but it's a *really good* piece of shit. 8/10." But I'll also recognize that not every VN needs to tell some epic, mind-blowing storyline to get a really good score. I don't read nukige, but giving one a 10/10 because you've never had such good faps before sounds fair.
#9 by forever-here
2019-11-07 at 05:02
But sometimes you just want a cigarette.

a cigarette I can understand, but a thrown cigarette and half-used and the filter is already brown to begin with? and you want to make the case that this is actually 8/10 because reasons?

don't get me wrong, there ARE people who rate shit isekai anime higher than 6 simply because they haven't seen any better. and there VNs like DDLC rated high because of cheap shock value. meanwhile stuff like MLA or Saya get scores lower than 5 maybe because it's too much for the average viewer (read: normie).

wait, am I actually making the case?Last modified on 2019-11-07 at 05:08
#10 by barfboy
2019-11-07 at 06:04
They're the best at what they do. You want pregnant elves? Well we got pregnant elves pissing on the floor. You want angels? We got your angels sucking your dick and begging for more. You want sluts? You've never seen sluts like these before, fat, pregnant, and covered in cum.

Some things only Miel does, like pissing in a girl's vagina, girls begging to be cattle, oinking like pigs, hoping to be paraded outside naked and covered in writing. Elves, goddesses, angels, queens. They're the glorious trash of nukige.
#11 by yorhel
2019-11-07 at 06:46
If you're in the mood for trash and the game lives up to your expectations, then the game has fulfilled its purpose and it deserves a fair rating, I'd say.

I mean, ratings have always been a general indication of how it's been received by fans/players - and if there's a market for trash then there's nothing wrong with having the votes reflect that. It's not some kind of objective quality indicator.
#12 by altonan
2019-11-07 at 07:21
Give it a score based on how much you enjoyed it. It's that simple. Does it fulfil the need that you played/read it for? How well on a score of 1-10 would you say it fulfill that need?

Comparing cheap nukige to a VN specifically written about existentialism, the nature of good and evil and the triumphs and failings of the human condition is really more of a comparing apples to oranges situation.Last modified on 2019-11-07 at 07:27
#13 by forever-here
2019-11-07 at 08:39
They're the glorious trash of nukige.

and yet they're still trash as you yourself admitted.

If you're in the mood for trash and the game lives up to your expectations

this presents another problem in itself: what if you weren't in the mood for trash? ratings are gonna swing widely back and forth depending on one's mood. in that sense anything is a 10 you just have to play them at the right time and mood and setting. In another sense you could say that if everything is a 10 then nothing is a 10.

ratings therefore are completely useless and it would be best to ignore it. but then again you're right:

It's not some kind of objective quality indicator.
#14 by sakurakoi
2019-11-07 at 08:48
A low-effort piece of garbage that isn't trying to achieve anything other than maybe make a few bucks on steam is still a piece of garbage.
You just had use that example instead of ever considering that short stories exist along with fetishes, huh?

I'm still waiting for actual criticism on what makes Miel works actually so bad since, after all, what would make it bad are h-scenes that are not written well, not written exciting, voiced awfully, art that maybe a pubescent would find good when they are starved for it.

And just who told ya that there is a target audience for "low effort trash works"? Who would indiscriminately recommend all of them? And those are also the authors intention even?

In fact, some many might indeed like to make fun of trash games and find joy in that (mostly only together) but that's it. Intentional trash is actually bad trash and no one would rate them well not recommend them.

What if it is not "low-effort piece of garbage" but "low-budget parody"? You don't actually rate or recommend something based on how much effort or money is said to be put in but what the work simply is.

And a work has...
-a prize
-estimate-able entertainment time for the target audience/possible fans
-info readily available regarding the content before reading
-actual content (which also included simple mistakes and poor grammar, or not)
-a target audience that gets hooked by the info
-a target audience who judge and weigh the actual content

now, let's take yer typical "low effort garbage" which does as the label implies:

-price: likely to be very low
-entertainment time: none? very likely at least or very small anyway
-info: either deceptive or boring/Engrish
-actual content: little and bad, either in contrary to expectations or matching the info
-target audience: either those who goet deceived or who take it as "how not to make something"
-target audience compares it to their expectations: could be forced, could be just lame, could otherwise test yer patience

so, when would one recommend such a title?

if the price is low to none (rather none since nobody would want to support them)
deception is actually taken aside once known and only a warning
the garbage trash could be entertaining due to X, Y and Z (examples)

again, that's why numbers as ratings are bad and in any event

if you don't consume something enough to judge it, don't judge it
if you know that you won't like/recommend something, don't consume it

rather than bad ratings, "punishment" for bad stuff is obscurity and being forgotten and it also helps people to better avoid something they don't like

this presents another problem in itself: what if you weren't in the mood for trash?
when you are not in the mood for X then don't do X, it's not rockets science but apparently "weebs" and who deny being one just love to torture themselves.

again, there is a difference between trash/garbage/w/e being what an audience could seek and w/e which is just low "everything", something that is so bad in all regards that one has to be very special to enjoy it.
#15 by dk382
2019-11-07 at 09:50
@14 What on earth are you even talking about? You realize I wasn't singling out any specific VN as a piece of garbage, right?
#16 by forever-here
2019-11-07 at 10:03
when you are not in the mood for X then don't do X, it's not rockets science but apparently "weebs" and who deny being one just love to torture themselves.

you missed my point entirely. calm down and read my post again slower.
#17 by usuisorata
2019-11-07 at 19:35
I guess there are people who rate it on interesting or not. There are some visual novel that can be very boring all the way. Not interesting at all. There are also some that start is funny than when entering the heroine route it becomes serious. There are also some where the heroines mature overtime which makes it more interesting. I have played a few vn where it is boring from start and not very interesting till end because the previous title was way better. Imouto paradise kind of visual novel is quite funny so its good in its own way.Last modified on 2019-11-07 at 19:40

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