Not what it seems like a first glance ...?

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#1 by mikiru
2020-01-18 at 14:18
On the official site, I think many have noticed a resemblance to "Kami no Rhapsody", but in fact this is the next game from the Meister series (despite the fact that the name does not say that). Eushully mentioned in their blog that this is a hybrid of “Himegari Dungeon Meister” and “Genrin no Kishougun”. Only this time we will not catch princesses, but angels (Well, simple mobs too). Of the new features, one can note a top view, as in "Kami no Rhapsody".Last modified on 2020-01-18 at 14:18
#2 by diabloryuzaki
2020-01-18 at 15:07
for me it is more similar to "what happen if ikusa megami have himegari feature?". their capture and research/training/summon feature itself is same like himegari, their dungeon battle still same like ikusa megami but the different is enemy battle area is wide (four box rather than 1 box) like in fuukan no grasesta and when you do dungeon exploration you will have same feature like what you have from meister series (like "back to previous action" maybe)

but this is the important point in this game, did it have priority action like fuukan no grasesta? honestly, this is very important feature to have when you are "lazy player" that only interest to their story. not only that, i doubt you can have easy and useful hetare dungeon in this game because hetare dungeon in himegari and grasesta is very hard and useless for first time player
#3 by mikiru
2020-01-18 at 15:32
It seems to me that the battle in the dungeons will be almost identical to the Meister series, I do not see any similarities with ikusa megami here. The screenshots show that the battles will take place 1v1, or aoe spells, movement no exception. It is unlikely that in this game we will move freely, as in the ikusa megami series. There will be "step by step" dungeons, as in the Meister series.
#4 by diabloryuzaki
2020-01-18 at 17:38
then it means this game battle system just a renewal of himegari battle system. but fortunately we can capture all capturable unit as ally later rather than have some of it as ally in this game
#5 by mikiru
2020-01-18 at 18:32
Perhaps with the release of the trial we will see "all" innovations in the combat system, but I see so far a small update in the form of full-fledged models in the dungeon.
#6 by diabloryuzaki
2020-01-18 at 18:46
let's expect more useful angels and meaningful ex story in this game because grasesta didn't give good ex story despite have good story
#7 by kiru
2020-01-18 at 19:24
So they realized, that the meister series got worse after Himegari. Unfortunately they didn't realize, that it's not because you can't "capture" enemies.

It gets pretty painful to look at, them trying to build on past success but never really understanding why it was successful to begin with.
#8 by mikiru
2020-01-18 at 20:12
#7
I'm not a big fan of the Meister series (including Himegari), but what is the same "Amayui Castle Meister" worse than its predecessors? I liked her even more than Himegari and Kamidori.Last modified on 2020-01-18 at 20:12
#9 by behappyeveryday
2020-01-19 at 14:15
@7 Em, what? Most people (including me) consider Alchemy Meister the best game in the series. It is the most popular and highest rated. Himegari is the weakest one in terms of gameplay and story, even though it is still isn't a bad game as there not enough good TRPGs out there. Objectively, Himegari has the least amount of features and variety. The only thing it did better than newer games is exactly "capture" mechanics. Other than being more hardcore and brutal for people who are into it.
Honestly, I played Fire Emblem series after Meister one and it is just too simplified. Even though FE series is considered one of the best Japanese TRPGs out there I was unable to enjoy anything other than Awakening (haven't played Three Houses yet). I'm yet to find anything better than Alchemy Meister in terms of TRPG gameplay - Disgaea, FFTactics and Tactics Ogre included.

@8 The one thing Castle did worse than Kamidori is the equipment changes. Customizable costumes for the main heroines in Kamidori were just incredible and it is the peak of customization you can get in this genre. The new equipment system was just too plain in comparison. It would be cool if in this new game there would be some main companions with high level of customization and not just generic army of capturable mobs.Last modified on 2020-01-19 at 14:16
#10 by mikiru
2020-01-19 at 15:17
@9
Do not get me wrong, I do not consider Kamidori and Himegari as bad games. But after passing Amayui Castle I remembered it and liked it much more than the previous two games in the series. And here more (for me) is not a matter of gameplay, but rather characters and the main story. Which for me is also very important in EU games.
#11 by desann
2020-01-19 at 18:28
@9
It's highest rated because it's the only Eushully game translated to English and most of the payers don't know Japanese. Story/characters-wise it's one of the weakest Eushully games (well, still better than yubiwa).
#12 by mikiru
2020-01-19 at 20:13
@11
If I'm not mistaken, but Kamidori and Ikusa Megami Verita got the title of "The Best Game". And even took first place in the list in the section "Best Game with a Game System" in 2010 and 2011.Last modified on 2020-01-19 at 20:16
#13 by mikiru
2020-01-19 at 20:15
But I agree with you, I was also not very interested in the story and the characters.
#14 by kiru
2020-01-19 at 20:31
Himegari was just not really liked because of the barebones plot, and it being a massive pain in the butt to "fully" complete, if you are into that. The latter isn't that weird for Eushully games, I guess, but it's pretty bad there. It's also the hardest, without savescumming rolls. (which however is the easiest to do out of the trilogy) Ignoring hard mode in Amayui, which you don't have to play, obviously. (and is terrible anyway)

The gameplay of Himegari is the best, however. Several key elements that made it work were removed or done worse in the later ones. The biggest ones being:

-Dungeon design. The system with room control, otherwise you have 1 move, was meant to work with small rooms. Later games love to insert bigger rooms, or even absolutely HUGE rooms, with monster spawners in there. Due to there being no way to get to them with 1 move, it's door combat till nothing spawns anymore. Ironically, Himegari has this in one map as well, but you are supposed to block and circle around it, towards the goal.
-Reward for fast clearing. Himegari rewarded splitting units up with dungeon design being made for it, as well as giving you tools to do this well, and rewarding you if you succeed.
-Magic of the MC. These are really important tools to make the entire game even work. Recalling units, getting the deployment cost back and healing them in the process, so you can deploy them again in one of the many deployment gates all over each area. Teleporting a unit, to help a unit that ran into a monster house or to just quickly check some walls for hidden areas at the end of a stage with save+reload, without the need to painfully walk though the entire thing again because it's 99% or whatever.

They basically put some real thought into the system. Afterwards they just copied parts of it and hoped it kinda works. Feels just like fairly weak attempts. But you have more (in my opinion rather questionable) text. There are enough people who like exactly that about the games though, and that's fine. Popularity in games isn't really aligning with a game's quality anyway. Especially not exactly easy turn based strategy games can be quite hit and miss. That's why Fire Emblem from Nintendo also got a LOT more forgiving in its recent games. And that made them more popular. Are they better than the older games however? Depends on what you consider a good game.

The theory isn't always the most enjoyable for people, and that's not a bad thing. However a truly good game should be able to succeed. Himegari has plenty of rather silly old school parts to it, that hold it back. But beneath the rough exterior lies something nice. Just gotta scratch it out. Can't say that about the other 2. They are just meh.Last modified on 2020-01-19 at 20:35
#15 by sakurakoi
2020-01-19 at 20:33
Story/characters-wise it's one of the weakest Eushully games
because it has the least amount of magical madness, super easy mind control and evil gods being fanatically worshiped by all, all without having the inhabitants consider them, ever
#16 by diabloryuzaki
2020-01-19 at 22:37
#14
himegari story is not bad, it is just hard to understand for people who like good start rather than bad start. not only that, himegari look good in common route but somehow look bad when enter heroine route. and i disagree if himegari have the best gameplay in eushully games because it is not kind enough for first time play. not only that, hetare dungeon in himegari feel useless where it should help people who use it at the beginning of game to have easy gameplay later. i don't know why people give good score to himegari same like verita when verita have more meaningful story and gameplay than himegari
#17 by behappyeveryday
2020-01-21 at 15:15
@11 Most games lose the average rating after being translated, only Bayesian one raises because of popularity. It is also higher rated on erogescape from what I know.

@14 I played the highest difficulty in all Meister games and Himegari was the easiest one to fully complete, also the shortest one by far. And in Castle, you can just cancel any action immediately, so there is no real need for savescumming unless you talk about getting better stat rolls (which is more like cheating btw). You mentioned three rather minor points about the gameplay, but both Alchemy and Castle have a few times more skills, more complex dungeons (they aren't just uselessly bigger), a few times more equips, additional customization systems, etc. Almost all features of MC's magic from Himegari are in the later games as well, just there are some restrictions on them.

As about FE - the problem isn't that earlier games are "unforgiving". The problem is that the only variable in earlier games is the stats of characters. No skills(or bare minimum), almost no terrain, no equip, etc. Add to that the fact that you should play PERFECTLY each fucking time and have no right to lose even one party member. You can't even have tactical sacrifices which are the whole point of good tactical games - to choose your sacrifices wisely. Earlier FE games don't have a feature which exist even in chess, lol.Last modified on 2020-01-21 at 15:16
#18 by nekunin
2020-05-16 at 06:13
#17 nah they aren't more complex at all, they are just big to force you to either use a specific type of unit or just to use a certain equipment.

while there is healing and some units able to teleport people there is nothing like some of the type of magic in the other games.

the capture system and sacrifice system worked real well and were one of the best points of himegari for me, the capture system on amayui is just annoying, literally just made to power up some shitty unit that people normally doesn't even use a (to the point that they had to make a set of 4 stages just to make people use them).

though every game has their good points like kamidori having so much alchemy and special clothing for the heroines, amayui, id say the fort defense stages where you could deploy defense mechanisms was pretty neat.

in other news yeah no, this game has the exp system like the meister series and some weird capture system but ultimately is the same shit as kami no rhapsody just slightly modified to make it have a more meister feel.
#19 by chaosharbringer
2020-05-16 at 06:30
The setting and MC's design reminds me a bit of Bunny Black, aaaand now I miss the series once again. . . . . .
#20 by clephas
2020-06-11 at 07:25
This is the worst game in the Meister series by far. It even makes Himegari look good. Twenty hours in, and I've yet to find anything resembling plot or story, I know very little of the setting, and Klaus is still a one-dimensional character who is a horrid parody of what a true villainous protagonist would be. The gameplay is a time sink without the virtue of a story to provide a reason to slog through it.Last modified on 2020-06-11 at 07:25
#21 by kiru
2020-06-11 at 08:43
^Himegari is the best of the Meister series. Please, have SOME taste. At least that game gives you all the tools to deal with the dungeons in an efficient way, and doesn't resolve into door combat all the time while 1 million enemies spawn. And it understands how to use the room conquering idea. All these big rooms with many enemies in the later entries defeat the point of this. Himegari uses this once, and the idea was to shut off the entry so you circle around the room to win the map.

The future meister games just copied Himegari but never even understood why the mechanics worked like they did and messed up everything in the process. The MC's abilities alone were so damn important for everything to just click, something that was removed entirely.


Eushully generally has this issue. They try to copy past success without understand why it even worked to begin with.

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