Game really could have been an 18+ title

Posted in

#1 by periah250
2020-02-09 at 07:00
So without spoiling or giving names, I reached a point in the story where the protag and the chosen heroine confirm their feelings for one an other. It states their first and second kiss were normal but the third got intense. Then fade to black and its morning and their making not even slightly subtle innuendoes for what they did....Are you freaking kidding me? This feels like a shittily edited all ages port of an originally 18+ game? if its gonna referance it and such then give us the scene or something, none of this deflating cut to black. If it's a all ages thats fine but they aren't even trying to bloody hide it! it feels like they missed both marks. It's too explicit to really comfortably be all ages especially the pretty on the nose discussion after what is implied, while to be 18+ it shows nothing, describes nothing, and we don't even get a slightly racey cg for the trouble.

Look I'm not asking for it to be porn, Key doesn't do porn...but to go all the way right to it then to cut away to black and not even try to leave it up to your imagination if they did? really ground my investment in the to a jarring halt. Probably won't go back to the game at this rate, such a baffling design choice ripped me right out of the story.Last modified on 2020-02-09 at 07:00
#2 by risus
2020-02-09 at 09:28
Key also make 18+ novels, you are wrong. If you don't like the novel don't play it, asI do when I feel it is not for my choice. It's up to you to decide and it is simple.Last modified on 2020-02-09 at 09:29
#3 by diabloryuzaki
2020-02-09 at 10:48
key do 18+ content before but "not good enough" even there is some reader who said that their 18+ content is too half ass. that's why they start to stop write 18+ content but that is not stop them to write content that one step from 18+ content
#4 by naiohoras
2020-02-09 at 13:11
well, it doesn't matter for some people like me who skips H-scene if there's no something important on the H-scene (limited to VN which aren't nukige). IMO it's better to leave it as an "implied sexual activity" for a game like these
#5 by fuukanou
2020-02-09 at 15:30
I was born yesterday and so I couldn't have played this game if it was 18+

waaa booo
#6 by periah250
2020-02-10 at 00:12
Not sure how i should take #5 but for the others it just feels like a poorly edited all ages edit and all that does is make me feel sour towards the game and really turned me off the game.
#7 by usagi
2020-02-10 at 03:48
Probably they just made h-scenes places for possible future Japanese-only 18+ "perfect edition". Very convenient, tbh.
#8 by sanahtlig
2020-02-10 at 03:57
Key also make 18+ novels, you are wrong.
What new 18+ releases has Key done in the past 5 years?Last modified on 2020-02-10 at 03:57
#9 by nyarly
2020-02-10 at 11:41
I sure would like H-scenes if they can make them good (for once), but it's better to not have them in the first place, than to badly shoe-horn them in. Or even have them placed well, but written terribly.

I don't know if that could have been done with Summer Pockets, since I don't know the writers' previous works, but I'm not bothered that it's not 18+, even if it would have fitted well.Last modified on 2020-02-10 at 19:08
#10 by paragonias
2020-02-10 at 13:28
@9 You heard it here first people, this game is 28+
#11 by risus
2020-02-10 at 16:57
#10, you mean 18+?
#12 by sakurakoi
2020-02-10 at 17:04
What new 18+ releases has Key done in the past 5 years?
Yeah, they are now better than that! The rest of the industry only does that anyway because it supposedly sells and it is not because they like 18+! (Never ever mind that for each profession within VNs, other industries pay far better and more consistent. This also included writers and visual artists.)

or rather, they are so bad at writing something naturally that they can not implement the most natural thing, sex.

But welp, maybe that changed after the famous composer stopped writing, whatever and as much could get people emotional... I doubt it though~
#13 by nyarly
2020-02-10 at 19:08
#10 Wow, two mistakes right next to each other and I didn't even notice. That's a new low for me.
#14 by leonardo7899
2020-02-10 at 21:12
#4 I agree that people should stop crying if the game is all ages when released on everything but when they make such a bad edited scene were they supposedly had sex is just bad , if the visual novel got edited to remove the supposed sex scenes i get it, but if thye did a terrible job on this i can only get mad , i agree the op , they made some horrible transitions where they probably had sex and clearly showed that this game was probably a 18+ and got edited really fast.
#15 by periah250
2020-02-10 at 23:59
@#14 perfect reiteration most lilely easier to understand than my initial post. Im fine with all ages games and 18+. But if its an all ages version of an 18+ game then hold off for the 18+ patch. But if its all ages on everything yet it makes pretty much certain that they had sex somewhere or other i just feel screwed over. If they make it so explicitly stated then just make an 18+ version.
#16 by kiru
2020-02-11 at 09:45
^Dude. There are a ton of stories with people who have off-screen sex. In fact, that's more normal than anything else. Why would that need to stop, just because it's a visual novel? That's just stupid.
Adult games have the issue that they need to provide tons of this content and for every single girl. When two or three characters have one point in the story, where it's implied, it'd never be enough for an 18+ version. So you'd have to insert a lot of unnecessary crap. Or offload it into the extra menu, but that makes people mad, too.

I know the VN industry is in a sad position. Too many really do somehow think that the most important thing is having ero. But please. The medium isn't defined by that. You can talk about sex, without showing 18+ pictures and "aaahn".
#17 by rampaa
2020-02-11 at 11:27
You can talk about sex, without showing 18+ pictures and "aaahn".
You can also imply a big showdown has occurred without showing all those "muh resolve" moments on-screen. Doesn't mean it's a good idea or that people will be pleased with the decision.

It's like hearing an unfunny joke that lacks a punchline. Not everyone has to tell jokes, sure. But if the story starts telling one anyway, then the reader might want to hear the punchline. I promise it's not a "sad" or "stupid" expectation. If the story makes the reader feel like they are reading a butchered release, chances are the producers have done a half-assed job and the flow of the story wasn't the greatest on that front.

tl;dr: If the story has buildups for things that it won't deliver properly, it's nothing but natural to feel displeased with it.Last modified on 2020-02-11 at 11:32
#18 by PabloC
2020-02-11 at 16:23
You can talk about sex, without showing 18+ pictures and "aaahn".
Sure. In a book.
However, when you are using a visual medium to tell a story, you're actually supposed to show stuff. Let's face it, keeping sex off-screen doesn't bring any benefits to the story most of the time (NTR can be an exception here). I know it's "normal" in other types of media (which is understandable in case of movies for example, due to TV / cinema restrictions or actors not willing to play in full fledged porn scenes), but that doesn't make this approach any less wrong. Not showing stuff (without a good storytelling-related reason) simply defeats the purpose of using a visual medium.

That said... We are talking about Key here. >_<
In any other case I would have 100% agreed with OP's sentiment. But in Key's case... No matter how bad those fade-to-black scenes were, I'm pretty sure their H-scenes would make everything 100x worse. Their ability to create incredibly bad sex-scenes is kinda legendary after all. XD
#19 by naiohoras
2020-02-11 at 18:27
so the whole point of this thread is... why we didn't get to see some anime manko in the VN even though there are scenes that made our peepee hard

the thread's becoming so big just because of that. I'm proud of you guys
#20 by misso
2020-02-11 at 18:49
Then fade to black and its morning and their making not even slightly subtle innuendoes for what they did...
Considering that in the morning they were talking way too shamelessly and that it would've been a little out of character for them to have been savage enough to do it outdoors (eroge logic kinda doesn't apply here) I don't think they had sex in that scene. When I read it, it felt to me more like they just made out all night and that then the game started to sorta play with the idea of them having done sex but with a very comic tone (that's basically how the comedy is throughout the route).
If the story has buildups for things that it won't deliver properly
The problem you bring up here is the same as watching ecchi anime but looking for hentai.
...visual medium to tell a story, you're actually supposed to show stuff
That's the thing, the purpose of the visuals here is to enhance the story told through the scenario. H-scenes aren't supposed to be "story" (even the ones people say have some kind of bearing on the story, those are just trying to "legitimate" themselves) they're just there to appease horny people like us with something to masturbate to. There's absolute no need for them to be there at all. They most of the time also muddle the plot and are presented in a manner so formulaic that they are off-putting, so technically we can agree that's probably better if they're at least not shown.
So yeah, you're all just horny for Ao (pray for Ao After).
Also I'm pretty sure Key creates half-assed H-scenes purposefully because they know they are worthless.
#21 by rampaa
2020-02-11 at 20:05
The problem you bring up here is the same as watching ecchi anime but looking for hentai.
That comparison is misleading. The term hentai has all sorts of other implications that comes with it. People will not think of animes with some sex scenes here and there when they hear the word hentai. They will think the anime equivalent of nukige genre. But no one is suggesting this title should have been a nukige all along. What's being said is, if they are going to build up the story into that direction, they should deliver it properly or they shouldn't have the buildup at all.

Now that's cleared away, do I think some ecchi shows would be way better if they had sex scenes in them here and there? Absolutely yes. I've watched lots of ecchis and quite a few of them made me say just fuck already. The fact that VNs can generally deliver what they've built up is actually one of the reasons why I've come to appreciate VNs this much.

There's absolute no need for them to be there at all.
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
#22 by leonardo7899
2020-02-11 at 20:17
16# Yes , everyone understands that there is games where there is offscreen sex , hell even i played has a lot of games who have off screen but the problem here is not the sex itself but the way they handle it , for me it was supposed to be h scenes but they edited out for some reason and that's the problem , it was so strangely edited that even i felt that something got cut off , 20# I think they probably had sex, not that i care at all , hell even if they did had sex and they did not show and was off screen it would be better , but here they literally cut off this part and makes me question if i missed something or they just cut something off , i don't the op here wants sex or a h scene because from what i notice he is mad like me about something that probably got cut off the main game and got stitched back up really fast leaving this hole , 19# That's really not the case , the whole point of this is that we are asking ourselfs if this game really did have h scenes and when on release they decide to cut off and leave this "hole" on the game , but hey if people are mad about no h scenes that's fine too we are brothers playing visual novels we gotta respect everyone.
#23 by PabloC
2020-02-11 at 21:44
H-scenes aren't supposed to be "story"
You could say exactly the same thing about all slice-of-life elements, jokes or fight scenes. It's not absolutely necessary for the plot to show the epic duel between the hero and villain. You can just fade-to-black before combat and jump straight to victory celebration. The raw "story" remains the same either way. It's just a lot less fun.

The issue with this logic is that raw plot usually isn't quite enough to make a story on its own. It's also necessary to give the reader/viewer some time to get to know (and grow to like/hate) the characters, develop relationships between them and add some comic relief, dramatic moments and/or eye candy (be it an epic action scene or a sex-scene). All these elements add very significant layers to the plot and make the whole story actually enjoyable (if they're done right, that is - but that's a different topic). Heck, many moeges / slice-of-life titles can actually work with absolutely no plot whatsoever.

That aside, sex IS very important for most stories that feature romance. Without physical intimacy, relationships usually don't feel serious or realistic (especially in case of teenagers). They can work like this, but only in the early stage (where anime or manga often ends, while in VNs that's only the beginning of heroine's route). Then there are darker sexual themes that make for great drama / horror material.

It's just a matter of implementing and writing the sex-scenes right. I'd say that many VNs actually handle them quite well, but I guess your mileage may vary, depending on what you read. Generic moeges or trashy nukiges probably don't have anything interesting to offer in that department. :PLast modified on 2020-02-11 at 21:47
#24 by veronin
2020-02-11 at 21:47
Has anyone ever played a Key game and actually found the porn arousing?

Yeah, I didn't think so.
#25 by PabloC
2020-02-11 at 21:54
^ Well, their sex-scenes are meme for a reason. XD

Though I'd say the Key team did make a VN with solid H-scenes before they left Tactics, namely Moon.. I wouldn't call them "arousing" per se (not with early Itaru's artwork), but they were kinda interesting at least.Last modified on 2020-02-11 at 21:56