Your choice of images to Maggot Baits

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#1 by ginseigou
2020-02-13 at 18:12
I can't help but being curious in your strange logic.
Why the hell the headless body is a spoiler, if there's no way to tell who's the owner of the body?
The owner of the body is not even among the main heroines.

Why the hell the cow rape scene is a spoiler, if there's already one tentacle rape scene with the same heroine?
We already know for a fact that this heroine is going to be raped and the only difference is how.

Why the hell the image from the second ending is a spoiler, if there's no way to understand what it's about until you'll reach this point? Moreover, the second ending is only about a half of the vn, not even the later part of it.

In what way this image link is somehow more INFORMATIVE than
link or link ?

As for the action scenes vs porn ratio, even on Clock up's site the ratio is 7/24 which is roughly 3/10. linkLast modified on 2020-02-13 at 18:26
#2 by alaok
2020-02-14 at 00:40
The headless body is immediately recognizable as Irene because she's the only Witch with dark skin - the game even make a point of referring to her as the 褐色の”魔女” in every scene she appears in, as it's her most defining characteristic. Even if she's not a main heroine she's still an important character (not that the distinction between main heroines and side heroines is meaningful at all in Maggot baits lol), and the fact that the person tentacle-raping her has also decapitated her spoils Shougo's transformation into a 妖蛆 in the true route, as nobody else has the motivation to decapitate her.

It's not just the fact that Gloria is raped at some point, but the fact that it happens so late in the game that makes it a spoiler and gives away her ultimate fate if you see it before reading the true route. This one is less egregious than the others but I still don't think there's any reason to include a scene from the final ~5% of the story.

Including an ending CG and narration explaining exactly what happens in that ending is absolutely a spoiler no matter how you look at it - even if it's too abstract to understand fully at first glance, seeing and remembering it will obviously soften the impact of one of the best scenes in the game. There's no reason to spoil it.

The 「俺はゲイだ」 line may seem like a meme but I think it's a genuinely fitting, evocative and memorable scene from the game that reveals some nuance about the story. It demonstrates Shougo's complete disinterest in the heroines - a detail that goes a long way in showing that Maggot baits isn't just a rape nukige. It's an unusual and eye-catching line that will betray people's misplaced expectations about the game (the same misconceptions that making all the screenshots about sex creates in the first place).

This screenshot is just silly nukige writing and while this one does at least show the main couple interacting, I think showing Carol's perspective on it is far more important and accurate here since their relationship is explored primarily from her perspective, with her emotions placed front and center.

Promotional material for eroge will very commonly display a disproportionately high ratio of ero CGs, because that's what sells games. It's not a valid or reliable metric to judge the actual content of the game by. For example, 12/16 CGs on Dead Days' official site are ero CGs, but nobody would argue that it's a nukige. In fact it's probably worth pointing out that Maggot baits is also the first in a sequence of games Clock Up have produced with Kurashiki Tatsuya - followed up by Nemurenu Hitsuji to Kodoku na Ookami -A Tale of Love, and Cutthroat- and Dead Days, neither of which are nukige. It's not just a one-off occurrence but the start of an observable trend of Clock Up experimenting outside of their prior nukige format that has continued throughout recent years.

We can argue about semantics trying to 'prove' the ratio of content in the game all day but at the end of the day, even if it's peppered with rape scenes (almost all of which were written by a sub writer for the record), Maggot baits is a game with an intricate setting, prominent characterization, a core philosophy and worldview, and a huge focus on storytelling, and it's a shame to reduce it to a simple guro nukige or openly spoil its plot for no reason.
#3 by ginseigou
2020-02-14 at 02:50
1) You recognize who's the owner of the headless body only because you've read the vn and have seen that scene, hardly anyone will guess just from the one screen alone. Without any context, in the game where witches brutally tortured and die constantly, the death of a secondary character who barely has any screen time, and considering how insignificant her role's in the plot, is not a spoiler because it's an ordinary occurrence. The screenshot only demonstrates what brutality you'll experience.

2) Maggot bait's official page has the pig rape scene which happens at the same time as Gloria's link . The developer doesn't consider the rape scenes from later parts of the vn to be spoilers. Funnily enough, the main characters do not affect the primary endings of the vn, the ending depends only on what the villain guy will decide to do. That's how insignificant their role is.

3) It doesn't explain anything because it's too vague without any names and context. Might as well be a random scribble about old fairy tales. I don't see how it could soften the impact, if you don't understand what the image is about. You're not checking a vn's page on the vndb in the middle of reading.

4)
This screenshot is just silly nukige writing
It shows what to expect. You'll see heroines having sex all the time, because the story will be often interrupted for sex even during battles.
this one does at least show the main couple interacting
It shows the nature of a relationship between the protag and Carol. Not only that, the protag repeats this line many times during the game.

In any case, there is no such rule that screenshots must reveal some nuance about the story. They must show sprites and gameplay, that's exactly what they do.

5)
Promotional material for eroge will very commonly display a disproportionately high ratio of ero CGs, because that's what sells games.
It means I'm right about guro being the main selling point of the game. Developers sell the game demonstrating the main game features, that's exactly what I was trying to do. It makes much more sense to show the target audience of this vn more erotic and guro screenshots to make them interested in it.

There's a Christian setting - that's for sure, but Maggot Baits barely has any philosophic themes and a few lines don't count. It's not the first time when a Japanese writer chooses some Western mythology and builds a scenario around it, it could have been anything, not necessarily Christianity. It's like saying "Toaru Majutsu no Index" has philosophic themes because of Christian mythology and a few smart dialogs. Maggot baits' script would fit perfectly a good exploitation film.Last modified on 2020-02-14 at 06:47
#4 by alaok
2020-02-14 at 06:38
1 and 3) "It's not a spoiler if you aren't paying attentiom" is a ridiculous argument that can be used to justify literally any spoiler. Just because you don't check the VNDB page or remember any details from it while you're reading doesn't mean nobody else does. Why risk it when there's plenty of better non-spoiler screens to choose from?

2) That's fair and why I said it was less egregious, but it's not the first time an eroge's promo materials have contained spoilers and I don't see the point in showing endgame CGs when there are 50+ ero CGs to choose from.

4) Everyone knows to expect sex when reading an eroge, this tells them nothing about the game. Like I already said about the Carol/Shougo one, the line from Carol's perspective is more indicative to how the relationship is actually explored in the game. There are no rules about "sprites and gameplay", just rules against exclusively displaying event CGs with no text or UI. Of course there are no rules insisting screenshots must be nuanced, but there are no rules against it either - why shouldn't we pick ones that actually give a strong and accurate impression of the game's story and characters and say more than "this eroge has sex in it"?

5) Like I said, by this same logic ero is the main selling point of almost every eroge. That doesn't mean we should dismiss them as nothing but porn. Even if you personally thought this game had too many sex scenes, it's demonstrably not a nukige and has an elaborate scenario that takes up a huge amount of it's script. Even if you didn't care about the themes or philosophy, the scenario writer clearly did, as many scenes throughout the game are long omniscient monologues reflecting on all manner of topics, or long infodumps exploring the history of the setting. Just because you think Christianity is played out doesn't mean this is a nukige. Just because the protagonists are ultimately powerless against fate doesn't mean this is a nukige. None of this is a remotely coherent argument against the game having a prominent scenario - just because you didn't like the game's story doesn't mean it doesn't have one.

How many nukige do you know with 45 unique non-ero CGs? What would be the point of including all of those if all the creators cared about was the porn? Clearly this game's content extends far beyond simple guro porn and to selectively hide everything but its sexual content from the screenshots does nothing but ensure people who might actually appreciate the game write it off unfairly.
#5 by ginseigou
2020-02-14 at 07:20
1) And you're ignored the rest of the argument. She's a secondary character, her death has no significance to the plot. You don't even see her face, which is good cause it's hard to tell who is it.

2) Because it's a good scene and is approved by the developer. The rape is not a spoiler, all the characters are raped right away in a few hours from the start. The rape doesn't have any information important to the plot.

3) Is not a spoiler because it doesn't have any information about the plot and this image is not even in later parts of the game, the second ending is only a half of the vn. There's no rule that CGs from the endings are not allowed.

4) It tells what to expect and some people might not be willing to endure many hours of sex and guro for a few philosophical lines. Nobody will be confused for sure, by expecting something else.

5) No, ero is the main selling point of the vns with a high sexual content. Maggot Baits is a borderline case to nukige. It has some action but it's constantly interrupted by nudes and guro. There are about four times more scenes with either guro or sex than with action.Last modified on 2020-02-14 at 07:46
#6 by alaok
2020-02-14 at 07:46
1) It's a very important and shocking moment that shows Shougo's turning point from human to 妖蛆 in the true route.

2) Again, it's not just the fact that she's raped.

3) Again, it literally describes the exact events of one of the two main endings of the game. The game is split into two main routes, just because this is the first one doesn't make it any less of a spoiler.

4) Again, any eroge player already knows to expect sex. It doesn't matter whether you think the story is good or worth reading, it's undeniably a major focus of the game that you're pretending doesn't exist.

5) This is just not remotely true, for every ero scene in the game there's at least a scene or two developing the plot and characters in between. There's no way there are 3 of 4 times as many ero scenes as non-ero scenes unless you're just counting fight scenes for some reason

You're talking in circles now and all of your issues just boil down to complaints about the game - of course you don't think the story is important or any spoilers for it actually matter when you actively dislike and dismiss it. Just because you felt this way doesn't mean everybody else will, and it doesn't mean we should act like this is a nukige when it clearly is not.Last modified on 2020-02-14 at 07:46
#7 by ginseigou
2020-02-14 at 08:10
1) AND you can't tell who's the guy raping her before you read. It could be anyone.
2) It demonstrates the game, has no spoilers, so it's fine.
3) It describes something in a so vague manner, that it's impossible to tell what this is before you read.
4) Sex and guro are the main focus. People buy Maggot Baits for it, developers don't pretend that it's not the case.
5) You have yet to prove that somehow the developer is not right and the rape scenes and torture scenes are spoilers. By your logic, any dialog or any CG can be considered a spoiler. FOR THEY REVEAL A SMALL FRACTION OF THE PLOT. Somehow the MC's confession about being a gay is not a spoiler, but the cow rape is a huge spoiler. Don't you think the gay confession would give the wrong impression? I as well could think he's literally a gay from the image alone.Last modified on 2020-02-14 at 08:25
#8 by alaok
2020-02-14 at 08:27
1) Shougo and his allies are the only people in the game with incentive to behead the witches, this is established almost immediately.

2, 3 and 5) If there's any doubt why even risk it? There's no shortage of other moments you can highlight without ruining somebody's enjoyment of the game. One of the game's two main endings is obviously not "a small fraction of the plot".

4) This isn't even an argument. Like I said, by this same logic porn is the main focus of every eroge since it's almost always the main selling point.

This argument is so ridiculous, why are you so averse to the new screenshots? Even if the old ones weren't spoilers these would still be an improvement.
#9 by ginseigou
2020-02-14 at 08:56
1) Nope, they were killed by villains and criminals too.
2) It's retarded. I say that all your images are spoilers. They can ruin the enjoyment because you will know how the game's CGs look. Why do you risk? Your logic.
4) It's the vn with a high sexual content. One of the three routes shows hours of rape non-stop without any plot, even the true route has many sex scenes. It doesn't correlate with your suggested images at all. And what about this image that gives the wrong impression about the vn link ? You completely ignored it.

Your suggestion is not an improvement. Mine demonstrates more character sprites. Is in English, so more people could read. Correlates with Clock up's site.Last modified on 2020-02-15 at 11:05
#10 by alaok
2020-02-14 at 11:39
Oh, I missed that edit. I don't think its misleading. Like I mentioned earlier it's less about his exact sexuality (which isn't specified in the game) and more serves to demonstrate his complete disinterest in the heroines and sex surrounding him. It displays a defining side of his character that people won't be expecting if they assume he's a regular sadistic rape nukige protagonist, which could turn them away from the game.

Alternatively, if you're concerned that it may attract the wrong audience (aka BL fans) to the game under false impressions, I think you can rest easy. Clock Up have a notably high female:male ratio among their fanbase and actively take this into account when they produce their games. Note that Clock Up also produce BL games with the same staff, and that Kurashiki himself wrote a route of No, Thank You!!! and is currently writing Lkyt. Even in a game like Maggot baits, this audience is being accounted for and catered to - which is why lines like this exist in the first place, why Shougo is fully voiced and visible in ero scenes and why so many scenes are written from Carol's perspective. Homoeroticism is further explored and delivered upon in Shougo and Brian's relationship. Brian's intense feelings for Shougo are framed as a passionate love directly contrasting the main antagonist's ideals of Agape, and manifest in all manner of romantic lines about being soulmates and wanting to be together forever.

In short I don't think it really misleads anyone since BL fans will probably be satisfied with the gratuitous pandering later on, and anyone who'd avoid the game solely due to the protagonist's sexuality would probably be dissatisfied anyway by how infrequently he even appears in the ero scenes (and most of the ones he does appear in are written from Carol's erspective anyway).
#11 by ginseigou
2020-02-14 at 11:50
Well, I do think it's misleading. It looks like either as a spoiler about MC's character or a misleading joke which is irrelevant to the game's content. So going by your argument "Why even risk, if there's any doubt?" you should remove it later on.Last modified on 2020-02-14 at 11:52
#12 by alaok
2020-02-14 at 11:53
It's neither a joke nor a spoiler. But hey if you're not even gonna read my replies I guess the argument is over good chat man
#13 by ginseigou
2020-02-14 at 12:01
What's the difference, if there's a doubt? It's your reasoning the entire discussion.Last modified on 2020-02-14 at 12:02

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