Flagging Images

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#76 by wakaranai
2020-03-29 at 21:51
nope, it might be anything. you just presume it's taken from nukige and judge based on that merit. good we have a vote system for cases like this.
#77 by beliar
2020-03-29 at 21:57
Mods can do it already
So that's what Yorhel meant... I mean, that's counterintuitive. I thought mods would have an ability to vote on the images directly on the VN or character page.
Now I have to look what the image ID is in the db and add the ID to vndb.org/img/. Unless I'm missing something obvious...
#78 by mrkew
2020-03-29 at 22:03
@76 Don't be ridiculous. What genre the picture is from is irrelevant. There are plenty of nsfw plotge images which you could crop and post as such, and there are plethora of safe nukige images. Pleasure in face and naked shoulders make this very suggestive regardless of the source.Last modified on 2020-03-29 at 22:03
#79 by eacil
2020-03-29 at 22:08
I am sure Yorhel doesn't expect mods to fiddle with urls, it's just that modifying the UI takes time and he must be occupied with how it scales or with how to adjust the algorithm, etc. It's like you have technically access to your history but there will probably be a better way to browse your past votes. There is no need for mod to direct vote on pics at the moment.
#80 by skorpiondeath
2020-03-29 at 22:21
@78 maybe you are right but he is not ridicolous... I have encountered 2 of those cropped images: on one I voted safe the other suggestive. Beside that there is nothing written about that in the guidelines. We know that usually cropped images comes from nukiges but some could be blushing faces...and I don't find them suggestive without knowing the context.
I also found that I have not the same notion of skimpy clothes of other users.
#81 by wakaranai
2020-03-29 at 22:45
@80 yeah i've noticed many users are quite puritans, even a glimpse of bare skin make picture "suggestive" to them.
#82 by zakashi
2020-03-30 at 03:29
Damn, I thought making a voting system would make people argue less with each other about what is and isn't NSFW, but the result was actually the opposite? Well, may I ask your permission to give my opinion, but I think that discussing this much about this is completely useless, either way, that's my opinion and you guys do whatever you want ;)
#83 by fllthdcrb
2020-03-30 at 04:05
Well, you can't ask people to follow some guidelines without them at least trying to clarify them, since there are always borderline cases, and especially when some of those guidelines have opposing influences. A voting system is better when the voters know what they're doing.Last modified on 2020-03-30 at 04:07
#84 by skorpiondeath
2020-03-30 at 06:52
@82: I'm not arguing, I'm discussing which is completly legal in my country, you'll notice when we start arguing. Actually I find it useless to tell that this discussion is useless...since it's not. Maybe it can help clarify we don't want those kind of images voted as safe. Until that day...well peace.Last modified on 2020-03-30 at 06:56
#85 by yorhel
2020-03-30 at 07:56
in my browser (brave, chrome-based) when radio button control has a focus it has its own keyboard shortcuts that override arrow keys behavior, making them switch between radio buttons
Gah. I had fixed that behavior in Firefox by removing the 'name' attribute from the radio buttons, but that apparently wasn't enough for Chrome-based browsers. I've just added a 'blur()'-on-focus event, that seems to be working better.

I am sure Yorhel doesn't expect mods to fiddle with urls
Indeed, the image flagging system is not at all integrated with the rest of the site at the moment. What I have in mind: when the votes are actually being used to show/hide images, it'll show some stats and a link to the voting UI right next to the image. Or on hover, or on click, or something.
#86 by lucumo
2020-03-30 at 12:34
@81: I definitely wouldn't call myself puritan.
However, something like this link is definitely suggestive, as she has basically no underwear. Add to that legs showing, stomach showing and pronounced breasts (which wouldn't be an issue on their own) and yeah, I will definitely call that skimpy clothing, ergo suggestive.
Or for an example where you are involved: link That's already rather skimpy clothing (upper and bottom part) + pseudo see-through which shows areola + blushing (just some minor addition) and it's suggestive.

There are, of course, other examples where it's diffuclt (underboobs, sideboobs etc) but in general, I take the other clothing as well as stance/post into account.

What I've noticed is that people often don't categorize nipples showing under explicit, even though it's defined that way. Another thing, funnily enough, is that simply brandishing weapons is sometimes called "violent" by people like yorhel for instance. Although there are several instances of clear deviation from the guidelines by yorhel, as also noticed earlier in the thread.

/edit: I also generally support what was mentioned immediately in this thread: Directly voting on images or alternatively honoring filters. For one, seeing furry sex and the like can scar a person for life and personally, my interests lie more with the 80s and 90s games.

v Definitely wasn't that image then, as two characters each had a weapon but they were separated on the picture aka each one had their own part of the image with a diagonal line inbetween.

/edit2:

v Here link it's actually the opposite. Seems like I'm the only one caring about: "Characters actively fighting in a non-comedic manner is also at least "Violent"."Last modified on 2020-03-30 at 13:26
#87 by yorhel
2020-03-30 at 12:53
Don't take my votes as a definite "this is how we're supposed to vote", I don't claim to be very consistent and I also make mistakes as a result of clicking too fast. If we ever have a "votes by these people have more weight" list, I probably wouldn't put myself on it.

Regarding cleavage, I often take the amount of skin being shown as an indication of whether something is safe or subjective. Also whether the focus of the image seems to be on the boobs or not (and huge boobs often stick out more than smaller ones...).

I don't think I've flagged just brandishing a weapon as violent, though I remember flagging one case of someone pointing a weapon at someone else's head with a serious looking face.

/edit:
Here link it's actually the opposite.
Ah, yeah... that does seem like it should be violent.Last modified on 2020-03-30 at 13:41
#88 by rampaa
2020-03-30 at 12:56
To be quite frank, puritans are way more preferable to people who are being too lax. If puritans are the majority, the worst thing that can happen is people who opt-in for safe-images-only might miss some images that might be considered safe. If people who are being too lax are in the majority, then this whole system becomes rather useless and doesn't even accomplish one of the original goals we had (ie. safe browsing in public).
#89 by skorpiondeath
2020-03-30 at 14:01
@86: and which puritans do you actually know that call themselves puritans?

To be quite frank, puritans are way more preferable to people who are being too lax
@88: I thought I wasn't lax...but looking at the situation I am... so I guess it's preferable I skip my voting sessions.

@87:
Don't take my votes as a definite "this is how we're supposed to vote"
I think it's important instead because I thought you were the one to decide in the end where all of this has to go. In that I'm with rampaa you should just claim what degree of safeness you wanna achieve for the "safe" version of the site, the sooner the better.
#90 by lucumo
2020-03-30 at 14:15
@89: Not sure what that has anything to do with it but since I'm not American/living there, I obviously don't know any. However, pretty sure there are enough with some self-awareness around (in addition to all the more religious people, orders, probably Amish and stuff like this exists too link ).
#91 by yorhel
2020-03-30 at 14:26
In that I'm with rampaa you should just claim what degree of safeness you wanna achieve for the "safe" version of the site, the sooner the better.
Not sure what answer you really want here. The guidelines have this to say:
When in doubt, it's often best to choose the more conservative option.

But it's ultimately up to you how you vote - if you prefer to be lax, be lax, otherwise, don't. I have a lot of parameters I can tune to make the end result as lax or strict as I want. The only thing that matters in the end is that we have at least some people who take different sides sometimes. If we have a borderline image that everyone agrees is "safe", my tuning won't be able to do much, but judging from the votes so far I don't think we have to worry too much about that. Add to that that for a lot of the borderline images my stance is typically more at indifference - we have three categories, if it's borderline between "safe" and "suggestive" in the first place, it's probably fine either way.

tl;dr: Don't worry too much.
#92 by funnerific
2020-03-30 at 16:56
Constantly seeing massive cleavages and even nipples pushing through clothes being flagged "safe" by everyone.
#93 by kayste
2020-03-30 at 17:35
This system is rather fun, although agreed that there's definitely plenty of "borderline" images that are more subjective than others.

On another note, is there any specific guidance on what to do with the user-censored images such as this - by the guidelines this should technically be suggestive I guess? It would be good to have a way of flagging these types of images since I assume once the system is fully up and running the idea would be to replace these with the original versions of the images?
#94 by beliar
2020-03-30 at 17:52
Yes, user censored images should be suggestive. And yes, the idea is to replace them eventually once the system goes online.
There is no way to mark them for replacement, unless Yorhel could rig something quickly up...
#95 by some-guy
2020-03-30 at 18:42
Out of curiosity: What about something like this link ? I went with safe/tame, though a skull is kinda creepy and implies a violent action. Not sure if this counts as a form violence. Same question for portrayals of scary ghosts etc.
#96 by beliar
2020-03-30 at 18:54
Same question for portrayals of scary ghosts etc.
No, I don't think that horror themes (various monster among them) should be treated as violent.

On the other hand, your image portrays the actual death of a person, thus should be violent. Moreover, there is a clause in the guidelines that bodies decomposed to skeletons should be marked as "violent".
#97 by some-guy
2020-03-30 at 18:58
Oh right it's mentioned, I missed that part. Please revise my vote then :).
#98 by beliar
2020-03-30 at 19:02
Please revise my vote then :)
Well, I cannot revise your vote - moderation tools haven't been coded yet, but I have voted [Safe, Violent] on it. :-)
#99 by rampaa
2020-03-30 at 19:04
@some-guy: You can change your own vote: link
#100 by skorpiondeath
2020-03-30 at 20:00
Not sure what answer you really want here.
A glimpse of transparency on nipples in a flatted chest on a bodysuit less revealing than a bikini... -.- Shit I need to avoid this thread the more I look at this (link) the more I want to be in hell with wakaranai and vote it safe...