Misaki's route was so good it's not even fair...

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#1 by bestkatalyn
2020-05-06 at 22:31
< report >So this got me thinking again about how it's kind of meaningless to force the story into multiple routes, only for those to be overshadowed in the end. The first 2 were not bad by any means, it's just that the true one was all that and so much more.

Don't get me wrong, I know how common it is to split the plot into a "Multiple routes mystery", but in cases like this where the difference between them is so high, it feels very forced.
I don't want to sound like a book elitist but the mystery can be handled easy in a single route, a thing that books did since forever.
Other than this, I could think of one other reason: to give the other girls a spotlight. I can't help but think that this is starting to become a limitation of the genre and good storytelling in general.

Of course, I can also think of examples that actually need to use the medium for the plot (like Ever17), so I am not particularly against it either, but a story like this could have done away with it and come out better than before.

Anyway, the true end is absolutely amazing if that was not obvious by what I said.
An inseparable pair of characters that are more than able to face everything together from the start to the very end. If that appeals to you, then this is a must read.Last modified on 2020-05-06 at 22:35
#2 by diabloryuzaki
2020-05-07 at 01:32
< report >I know your feeling moreover when i remember the time i read silverio vendetta for the first time. World setting is too big and almost no route that can give detail explanation about it include vendetta route, not only that the difference is too big for heroine route

Personally heroine route in ragnarok is look fit for me because it is not too forced. Why? Let's talk with the presume you have read all route in vendetta and trinity

1. There is 4 shinsou (immortal) that left in the world after catastrophe and they live for 1000 years to achieve big goal as researcher and scientist. One of their achievements is the existence of masei like carnage and period. This is the first event in vendetta and it occur 10 years before vendetta main event and ragnarok prologue

2. 10 years after shinsou release masei, grenfalth use random village as their subject experiment and unluckily he meet misaki and ragna in there. Moreover at the same time, alder empire make an experiment by using rural children and vendetta is the one that success to meet their criteria but this is where amaterasu central proxy receive "vendetta curse" that make kujou misaki hair become silver. The time her hair become silver, her terminal that should meet grenfalth and join with him receive the influence of it then awakened as tsukuyomi

3. 2 years later, vendetta main event especially in vendetta route is where adler hero fall after meet counterattack from zephyr. Moreover in this hero falling, amaterasu found the respond of new sphere, sphere razer, as the second sphere

4. 2 years later after hero falling, the six unit make an experiment to create another sphere for themselves but fail because none of them can stand with it and despite they found the survivor that can stand with it, his lifespan is not too long. Once again amaterasu meet irregular from it and the third sphere, sphere bringer, appear.

Not too long after the appearance of thrid sphere, we enter ragnarok first event and bla bla bla until we know why we have incomplete setting in vendetta and trinity. But because light said that ragnarok is the last part of silverio saga, they make heroine route as a stage to introduce shinsou more detail and properly

Ange route explain how cautious is izana in shinsou and despite we have know about her cruelty in common route, in ange route izana become more than that. Her cautious is not like how grenfalth place his plan in the shadow from shinsou main plan and she is not too aggressive like sumeragi to silent risk factors for their plan because she use her cautious fully by any means to let their main plan succesa that almost make other people mistaken her as she can see the future. Trust me, her route is too painful to read because it is like whatever you do you can't run from izana calculation

Different from ange route, in cecil route we will see more conflict that can make you forget what happen in ange route. At the same time we can know about sumeragi past that can explain how he can manipulate rufus properly in common route. Different from izana, sumeragi manipulation method come from how inexperience is him before despite other people see him as prodigy child and he use it as the base to make everything is controllable for him. How he run from the fact that he is immortal, how he meet helen, how his first step as man to accept his inexperience and how he meet his first betrayal after that. In shinsou, he is the only one that hard to trust other people and have exaggerate sense of responsibility, of course we know the reason for it very clearly right?

In misaki route, well everything become very unbearable no matter what. Harsh battle, grenfalth and amaterasu egoism is the reason why tsukuyomi and ragna still fight at the end. Ironically, after grenfalth achieve his "first goal", his path to the doom become reduced drastically and as the finishing blow, kujou misaki use amaterasu to support him to win. Naturally this is where they win not until they forget why "ragna is exist" and ironically what they do until now is the reason why ragna didn't have other choice to use last resort to kill them.

Btw, if we ignore ange and cecil route to read misaki route only, you will feel something is not explained properly because basically misaki route can't cover izana, sumeragi and ouka story no matter what
#3 by bestkatalyn
2020-05-07 at 22:04
< report >It's also easier to split the plot in 3 parts, instead of tying them into a single story-line. Giving time to shine to each of the 4 shinsou requires a longer, connected story. So it's obvious that writing convenience is a large part of it.

But since only one route actually happens story-wise, once Glenfalth decides to take the stage the importance of the other shinsou is diminished drastically. You kinda forget how they were important in a parallel timeline once they are reduced to minions. At least that's how it felt in my case.

Now suppose the events in their routes would instead lead to the grander events from the final route, but all tied up in a all-in-one storyline. Their actions led to this outcome and their importance cannot be understated like that. I think the story won't be worse in any way, it would be better.

I think that routes make the most sense in heroine-bound VN, where you play for the routes themselves, not for the greater whole. And it's the opposite in protagonist-bound VN like what Light managed to do lately (which is amazing considering the medium).
I don't even know why they need the H-scenes anymore. Don't get me wrong, I like passionate romance but it's kinda ruined when they introduce explicit copulation sounds while their archenemies are plotting. Are there people that played this but wouldn't have had if it had no sexual content? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But I do think routes are important when they are "unique routes", which have almost completely different events, like with Tokyo Babel. There I felt that each route had it's own value and a complete integrated storyline would have been impossible.
#4 by desann
2020-05-14 at 20:30
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One of their achievements is the existence of masei like carnage and period
10 years after shinsou release masei
Iirc Carnage and Period was actually created by Kagutsuchi and Valzelide, and in Adler they just blame Canterbury without knowing it.

the third sphere, sphere bringer, appear
Actually, like, sixth?
Third and fourth are Kagutsuchi and Valzelide who created their spheres in Vendetta's final (apparently they somehow created separate spheres, and it covered only some Takahama interviews and additional story in console version of Trinity - I always thought that Kagutsuchi and Valzelide (and also Helios) have the same sphere and was confused in Ragnarok because of that).
Fifth was Helios in Trinity, and only sixth one is Ashley.


I pretty much like this structure with routes - first routes are like prologue, and with each one you see more and more of the settings and actual plot. I mean, this structure is common in VNs, it's actually one of the strong points of VNs as medium, and Light also did it multiple times in Vendetta, and Dies, and actually almost all of their games, and I feel that Angelica and Cecile routes shown their parts of story and different possibilities quite well.
The most disadvantage here is that if you like heroine of one of the first routes more than true heroine, but well, people have different tastes and you can't have everything (unless you go harem in true route). Actually even here I like Angelica more than Misaki (I think she is my second favorite heroine in Silverio, next to Vendetta herself).


@bestkatalyn You probably will like something like Paradise Lost or Kajiri Kamui Kagura, since they (mostly) follow composition you described with routes are parts of global storyline. But they managed it by having multiple protagonists with their own heroines.

I don't even know why they need the H-scenes anymore. Don't get me wrong, I like passionate romance but it's kinda ruined when they introduce explicit copulation sounds while their archenemies are plotting. Are there people that played this but wouldn't have had if it had no sexual content? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I actually not sure if I would read Ragnarok if it was all-age only. I like VNs as medium because they have H-scenes, unlike anime or ranobe - because it's sort of culmination of romance between characters, and, well, because I do like H-scenes.Last modified on 2020-05-14 at 20:49
#5 by bestkatalyn
2020-05-15 at 13:47
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I actually not sure if I would read Ragnarok if it was all-age only. I like VNs as medium because they have H-scenes, unlike anime or ranobe - because it's sort of culmination of romance between characters, and, well, because I do like H-scenes.

I do understand what you mean, but for me it would have worked much better if the stuff was not explicit. Like show that they did it, but not the whole explicit process.

Well, I can skip them just fine, but there are still 2 problems that remain:
1. It irks me to no end that a good story doesn't sell well if there is no hentai. I can only imagine what the writers think when they realize their story isn't all that interesting to their target audience without the stuff.
Light did try to stray away from this practice by releasing all ages that have more content that their 18+ counterparts (Dies Irae Amantes Amentes and Kajiri Kamui Kagura), like saying "you want our story or you want our hentai?"

2. It difficult (impossible) to recommend it to other people, especially if they are unfamiliar with the VN genre (which is pretty much all of them). Since it's an amazing experience, I would so want to share it with people that I know, but alas most won't take well to this kind of stuff.

So yeah, I am keenly aware that my little problem won't even change something in the medium, but it's still something I would love to see. Yes for mature stories, no for the need of very explicit hentai.Last modified on 2020-05-15 at 13:48
#6 by desann
2020-05-15 at 14:17
< report >
It irks me to no end that a good story doesn't sell well if there is no hentai. I can only imagine what the writers think when they realize their story isn't all that interesting to their target audience without the stuff.
You're saying "hentai" like it's something bad. I don't see any problems here. I would just read book when I want plot only. I would just play nukige if I want hentai only. In story VNs I want both plot and hentai.

Light did try to stray away from this practice by releasing all ages that have more content that their 18+ counterparts (Dies Irae Amantes Amentes and Kajiri Kamui Kagura), like saying "you want our story or you want our hentai?"
That's common practice for console ports (and when those ports ported back to PC). So more like "we can't put H-scenes in console version, so here are some plot additions instead so you won't feel like you didn't get all content". It's generally treated as "different version", not "superior version". For example, both versions of Dies Irae get HD rerelease, and r52327 box contained all 18+ versions.

It difficult (impossible) to recommend it to other people, especially if they are unfamiliar with the VN genre (which is pretty much all of them). Since it's an amazing experience, I would so want to share it with people that I know, but alas most won't take well to this kind of stuff.

So yeah, I am keenly aware that my little problem won't even change something in the medium, but it's still something I would love to see. Yes for mature stories, no for the need of very explicit hentai.
One of the main reasons I started to read VNs was H-scenes, so for me it's essential part of medium.

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