Brainstorming release images

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#1 by yorhel
2020-06-15 at 10:35
< report >Being able to add images to release entries, for covers and such, has been a requested feature for as long as I remember, so I was thinking of working on this next. This feature seems easy enough to implement technically, but I can't say I have given it a whole lot of thought in terms of how it ought to be used.

The simple case: For physical releases, we can add a high-resolution scan of the cover and back of the package and perhaps of the media itself.
I don't think we should be scanning/uploading any additional art (physical books, guides, posters, etc).

For digital releases I'm unsure what, if anything, release covers would be useful for. Promotional art? Not all digital releases have "cover-like" art and in some cases it's hard to tell what "cover-like" even is.

Thoughts?
#2 by forever-here
2020-06-15 at 10:55
< report >what about PVs?
#3 by rampaa
2020-06-15 at 11:01
< report >I'm probably going off a tangent here but will "VN" covers still be a thing when release covers become a thing? If it will, will it be selected from among the release covers or can covers that are not linked to any releases be VN covers?

we can add a high-resolution scan of the cover
Does that mean "Images larger than 256x400 will automatically be resized" thingy will be obsolete? If that is the case, yay!Last modified on 2020-06-15 at 11:03
#4 by yorhel
2020-06-15 at 11:45
< report >
what about PVs?
Not happening. I don't have the resources to host video and youtube can die a flaming death for all I care.

@rampaa: I don't think I'll touch the "VN" covers, those aren't even required to be "covers" or anything in the first place. Sometimes it's just a screenshot, and I don't think that's very relevant as release image. I plan to keep release images in full resolution, maybe I'll fix VN covers to support larger resolution too, but that'll be a separate thing.

Hmm, or maybe having this replace the "VN" covers in the long run isn't such bad idea, after all. Needs more thought, in any case.Last modified on 2020-06-15 at 11:50
#5 by naiohoras
2020-06-15 at 12:49
< report >replacing the "VN" covers with release covers isn't a bad idea at all. if you're going to do it then it's probably the best to have an UI that can directly "compare" between releases, like a drop down or something.

one of the reason is, the current VN covers is usually only representing one of the many releases available.
take Mare Mare Mare cover for example. it currently use r6853 as the cover, which include a new route and other bonuses. for people who don't bother to check the release or character sections (or when there are no enough information available), they will immediately think that heroines featured on the cover are heroines that available in *all* releases, which is not true. and as you can guess, they could end up buying the wrong release and regretting his decision for rest of this life...

I don't think we should be scanning/uploading any additional art (physical books, guides, posters, etc).
or maybe we can just take picture of the general goods, not the inside of it?
#6 by eacil
2020-06-15 at 20:44
< report >I would choose the first package cover of the stack to illustrate the VN page.
To prevent hosting the same cover ten times, I would allow the users to input the cover's id or, even better, have a page dedicated to covers like you have for screenshots (where you can link a single image to multiple releases).
I like the little right bottom "tab" when you hover on characters (much better than the previous border). I am surprised it's still not applied to covers but you could add on it what release the cover is coming from.

If you ditch the VN cover (I am all for that), you will be forced to accept digital covers but it's true that their presence is of relative utility as, most of the time, they are just a patchwork of spoilerish CG, or a small image, a banner or a screenshot when it's a steam/itch.io release. Maybe allow a fallback only when there is no package cover available?
#7 by kiru
2020-06-16 at 06:16
< report >Honestly, if there's a package scan: That. If there isn't, we don't need anything. The VN Cover is pretty much the release cover then.
#8 by skorpiondeath
2020-07-13 at 12:23
< report >I like eacil idea he nailed it.

I agree to have a separate tab called "covers" during VN insert/edit where is possibile to see previously uploaded covers and where to upload new ones. Every uploaded cover will have an id that can be used to link it to a particular release. Then we can have a list of the releases of that VN where we can link an id.
I would like the expand the possibility to link a cover to a release in the release insert/edit itself with a field where we can add the cover id.

I would also add a tab "Release Covers" or "Covers" near the "main" and "characters" tabs to have a place where is possible to list all the release cover thumbnails with a link to open the image fully in a dialog/frame like we have for screenshots (and maybe to cycle through them too). It would be nice to see under the thumbnail all the VN releases attached to that cover.

I am to ditch for the VN cover too but I personally think that I would like to pay respect to a VN by showing the oldest package cover existing. Another option could be to show the latest cover uploaded.
This brings some options to the table to be honest. Maybe people wanna see english cover first than japanese, digital over package, ramdom cover choosen amongst the uploaded ones, etc...
In the end I'm not sure everyone will be pleased because as usual everyone has is own ideas about it.
So maybe is too much to ask but it could be nice to have some personal filtering choices for covers in the user page, like for example choosen from a drop down menu. Otherwise adding a field to VN to input VN id default cover, but its more for retrocompatibility than anything else and it's kinda meh, and prone to editing wars (which btw are not happening now so why do I even write this since the probability that they should start after this is so low...).Last modified on 2020-07-13 at 12:25
#9 by butterflygrrl
2020-07-13 at 12:55
< report >don't many 'releases' cover multiple platforms and would therefore have multiple cover images within themselves anyway?
#10 by gvbn
2020-07-13 at 13:32
< report >Get rid of the height>width limitation. There are tons of VNs where the box art is in landscape.
#11 by naiohoras
2020-07-13 at 13:45
< report >
Get rid of the height>width limitation.
seconded.
#12 by lotuscale
2020-07-13 at 13:58
< report >@9: I think there won't be any release that has multiple cover images? They should be separated in that case.
#13 by yorhel
2020-07-13 at 14:36
< report >
have a page dedicated to covers like you have for screenshots (where you can link a single image to multiple releases).
The problem with this approach is that it implies one of these two implementations:
1. Release covers are a property of the VN entries, much like screenshots work at the moment. This sucks in that moving/deleting releases also requires editing the VN entry - not a common action, but oft forgotten. It kind-of makes sense to do this for screenshots, as releases can include multiple VNs so that relation is still valuable, and the limit of 10 screens/VN is much easier to enforce with this approach.
2. Release covers are a property of releases. This would be my preferred solution, conceptually simpler and less unexpected surprises when moving releases. But implementing a "covers" tab in VN edit means that this will be a batch-release-edit rather than a VN-edit operation, which will not be intuitive.

To prevent hosting the same cover ten times, I would allow the users to input the cover's id
This, on the other hand, is much easier. In fact sharing images between entries is already possible for current VN covers and character images (but not screenshots because the form doesn't support it at the moment, not a common thing to do anyway).
That said, copying image identifiers around isn't the most intuitive and user-friendly thing to do, quite likely people will be uploading duplicates anyway. Could easily implement duplicate detection, but that will likely only handle pixel-exact duplicates, i.e. a bit fragile.

EDIT: I suppose listing covers from other releases of the same VN entry in the release edit page would solve that problem much more intuitively. Still requires people to edit each release individually, however.

Get rid of the height>width limitation.
Without any resizing, there will not be such a "limitation". This is an issue with the page layout rather than how the uploaded images are processed.

don't many 'releases' cover multiple platforms and would therefore have multiple cover images within themselves anyway?
Separate physical editions for multiple platforms should definitely not have a single release entry. But even then, I do think multiple covers per release should be supported as some releases come with multiple disks and a separate cover for each.Last modified on 2020-07-13 at 14:39
#14 by yorhel
2020-07-13 at 15:18
< report >Actually, if we're limiting this feature to package scans of physical releases, how common is it even that the same cover is used for multiple releases?
And if it's only for physical releases, then surely this isn't going to replace the current VN cover images.

Maybe we should first agree on what release covers are going to be used for before we get to the how, since that does have a significant effect.Last modified on 2020-07-13 at 15:22
#15 by skorpiondeath
2020-07-14 at 18:33
< report >
Release covers are a property of releases
It makes sense now that you mentioned it, and even if I don't expect many realese movements when they happen it could be problematic.

And if it's only for physical releases, then surely this isn't going to replace the current VN cover images.
I'm ok with keeping a separate entry for the cover image, having the choice amongst release was just an idea, but nothing that should stop you from implementing the rest of it.

Actually, if we're limiting this feature to package scans of physical releases, how common is it even that the same cover is used for multiple releases?
I don't get what's the problem here, maybe it's not common but what to do when that happens?
#16 by yorhel
2020-07-17 at 09:00
< report >
I don't get what's the problem here, maybe it's not common but what to do when that happens?
A matter of editing efficiency: If it's common to have the same image shared by multiple releases, you'll want to have some sort of batch-editing interface. If not, such an interface would be useless.

Another question: Where will people get these "cover" images from? I don't suppose we're going to mandate that everyone should make their own photos/scans, that doesn't seem feasible. Are there common sources that have high-quality scans? What kind of quality requirements are we going to have, anyway?
#17 by zakashi
2020-07-17 at 20:43
< report >
Where will people get these "cover" images from?
I think Erogamescape is a good place.
#18 by yorhel
2020-09-26 at 09:52
< report >Update: I was originally planning to implement this before the reviews feature, but then doubts started to creep in, questions weren't adequately answered and I still don't really know how this will or should be used. Maybe I'll suddenly have the answers in the future and I'll re-start work on this, but implementing release images with the lack of sensible guidelines and letting everyone figure what to use it for feels like it'd invite more trouble than it's worth.
#19 by lucumo
2020-09-26 at 17:09
< report >Seems pretty simple though. Release covers are on the release page, left of the main text (like it's on the VN pages). When you add/edit a release cover, you see the ones that are already uploaded for the VN as thumbnails (like when you edit a VN, you see the current one) and you can select one if that also applies to the release you are adding. If yorhel hadn't got rid of tabs when adding/editing releases (like I campaigned for, with specific mention of possible future addition of content like this), it could have easily been a separate one.
Apart from that, I don't think the website's layout lends itself to adding scans of the backside, sides and a photo of the content. I know a German games database that has all of it (and more) but it's a lot more economical with its space but also doesn't have to deal with staff, votes or screenshots.

And yes, I'm also for a filtering option when it comes to the VN cover (or alternatively really do just use the first physical release cover), just so that I don't have to see abominations like the current one for Higurashi no Naku Koro ni with its awful, absolute generic design.
#20 by skorpiondeath
2020-09-26 at 17:21
< report >I personally agree with lucumo with having the possibility to edit/adding releases in tab. Obviously relase cover should be uploaded on the release page because if moved from a vn the uploaded image should follow the release.
The main cover of the VN can still be ulpoaded separatly like we do today without the hassle to cicle through release covers.Last modified on 2020-09-26 at 17:21
#21 by yorhel
2020-09-26 at 17:36
< report >You guys are too hung up on implementation details, that's not the problem here. I'm more interested in answers to the questions I posed in #16 and #14.
#22 by skorpiondeath
2020-09-26 at 17:48
< report >
Where will people get these "cover" images from?
I don't get what's the problem here... I mean we just search the internet for them. Maybe someone could scan his own phisical release but usually it's easy to find them around the net, and if a release cover is not found we will leave it blank like today.

if we're limiting this feature to package scans of physical releases
Sometime digital releases got covers too or at least they get shared with a picture that identifies that particular release, I don't get why limiting ourselves to phisical ones.
#23 by lucumo
2020-09-26 at 18:24
< report >Yep, it's basically as skorpiondeath says. The covers can usually be found on the net. So that is a non-issue. I don't really deal with digital VNs but digital games tend to have some kind of cover, so I guess it should be the same with VNs in particular.
Don't think a batch-editing interface is necessary. With what I described, a release cover can be added (if it was already uploaded) via editing in less than 10 seconds. And it's not like there are many multiple releases with the same cover. Console ones tend to have their console brand on it for instance.

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