Stop changing the VN length ffs

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#1 by hayashi
2020-06-28 at 06:59
All of my Japanese friends finished it within 20-25 hours. To the guy who kept changing the length to long, I don't know if you can't read Japanese or uses machine translation. Get out and stop.
#2 by naiohoras
2020-06-28 at 07:21
the guy just ignored your attempt of discussion lol

anyway, you may want to bring it to your personal discussion regarding edit like this for the next time. there's a "msg user" button beside the revision title to do that.Last modified on 2020-06-28 at 07:23
#3 by kiru
2020-06-28 at 07:57
And this is why you just measure the script size. In normal VNs like this, it's a much better way to get a length.
Or, you know, do it like EGS, gamefaqs and literally EVERYTHING ELSE and make it a vote thing.
#4 by asaki
2020-06-28 at 08:12
I have two suggestion for you

1. As a proud Japanese and that you always tell us to learn Japanese, next time you should write it using Japanese because it can help us to learn it. Unless of course you didn't want us to learn it in the first place.
2. I recommend you to read Wagahigh, and after that you should edit the length because so far it's still undetermined (Currently it's Long, although I brlieve that Medium may make more sense).Last modified on 2020-07-02 at 04:41
#5 by hayashi
2020-06-28 at 08:27
@asaki
1. Sure 2. I am already at my 170 Vns completed mark and SOL school moege just don't interest me anymore, infact the last one I read of those genre was like my 50-60 VN? I just can't handle how boring and repetitive those things are. Tho I will be reading こなたよりかなたまで next after my exams.
#6 by phantomjs
2020-06-28 at 08:53
All of my Japanese friends finished it within 20-25 hours. To the guy who kept changing the length to long, I don't know if you can't read Japanese or uses machine translation. Get out and stop.


Just want to make a point that just because you and your friends finished it within this length doesn't mean most others will (or should). What's the point of your post? That your friends' playtime mean it is an absolute fact? This proofs otherwise.

Or, you know, do it like EGS, gamefaqs and literally EVERYTHING ELSE and make it a vote thing.

Absolute agrees with this (and I believe I speak for a lot of people too), particularly to avoid situations like the one in this thread and to present more accurate data for Visual Novels' length, although changing the vote system to one similar to EGS may prove to be rather troublesome. Perhaps a voting system for each of the 4 length choices will be easier to implement and will also achieve the same aim.

Edited: Link
#1

I make a humble request to you and anyone using EGS's votes to present a VN's length as an unarguable fact, please stopLast modified on 2020-06-28 at 09:10
#7 by mrkew
2020-06-28 at 11:54
#1
You and your "Japanese friends" should realize VNs are not just reading, but also listening. Stop skipping voices.
Here's an objective fact for you: extracting the voice files lets you know that the total length of all voiced lines is 31 hours and 19 minutes. So you read all the unvoiced dialogue and narration in -9 hours. That's extremely impressive. Dumbass.
#8 by harleyquin
2020-06-28 at 12:31
You and your "Japanese friends" should realize VNs are not just reading, but also listening. Stop skipping voices.
Here's an objective fact for you: extracting the voice files lets you know that the total length of all voiced lines is 31 hours and 19 minutes. So you read all the unvoiced dialogue and narration in -9 hours. That's extremely impressive. Dumbass.

Who named you master and god for determining the universal standard for how long a game is rated on this database?

link

Length:
Very rough estimate of the time required to finish all endings of the visual novel. To determine the length of a game, it's often better to ignore this time indication and instead compare it with other games you've played. It's all relative, after all.

Voice line length is 31 hours and 19 minutes. That's a borderline case as far as this database is concerned with its arbitrary choice of 30hours for long novels.

You might have OCD and want to extract every last second of audio to have your money's worth for what you paid (or not). Most if not all Japanese players on EGS don't care for that since they read and understand each line in the game much faster than the audio lines.

If you're not interested in sex scenes and can read to the end much faster than the moans and sounds of copulation have run the course, don't be surprised to see that 31 hour 19 minute mark get shaved down to less than 30 hours of audio heard. This takes into account native readers who aren't reliant on getting a machine tool running as their crutch.

In the end, the length is just an estimate, not a god-given truth which can be used to beat the other party with. I'm happy to see the entry remain locked, since there's zero common ground between either side and there's nothing more to add for a visual novel that's already over two and a half years old from release to this database.
#9 by mrkew
2020-06-28 at 12:39
#8

Voice line length is 31 hours and 19 minutes. That's a borderline case as far as this database is concerned with its arbitrary choice of 30hours for long novels.
There is nothing borderline because that's just the voiced content. The main character has the highest number of lines in most VNs, since he appears in every route prominently, and he is unvoiced. Same for narration. For someone who claims to read fast, you don't have much reading comprehension.

Visual novels are a combination of text, voices, music, art. Do you understand that? Not just text. If you want text, go read a novel. Someone skipping through a VN is not a good indication of the length. It's the same as CTRLing through parts which bore you and then claiming it's short.Last modified on 2020-06-28 at 12:43
#10 by harleyquin
2020-06-28 at 12:49
Visual novels are a combination of text, voices, music, art. Do you understand that? Not just text. If you want text, go read a novel. Someone skipping through a VN is not a good indication of the length. It's the same as CTRLing through parts which bore you and then claiming it's short.

Sorry, who named you the definitive authority on how to classify the length of a visual novel again? Because all I'm READING is someone with an overinflated ego trying to impose his subjective opinion on the rest of the world.

CTRL-skipping a voiced line where you hear a woman scream in sexual ecstasy is banned? Sure, that's your rule. It doesn't apply to me. I'm perfectly entitled to skip voiced lines I'm not interested in hearing. It's not going to shave off so many hours of the experience that I can reclassify a game from 30 hours to 20.

The main character has the highest number of lines in most VNs, since he appears in every route prominently, and he is unvoiced

So? It's pure text. No voices whatsoever. If you can read it in a sentence instead of character by character or waiting for what gets tossed out by a machine tool, you save time. If you're going to claim you take 10 minutes to read a sentence which native readers can finish in 5 and proclaim you're the definitive authority on game length, you can preach in an asylum of your choice.
#11 by mrkew
2020-06-28 at 13:00
#10
Pretty much every post coming from you is full of claims that everyone around you is using MTL. Perhaps you should tone down the projection. It's pretty obvious to anyone who reads your posts.
As for the skipping, yes of course, you are entitled to skip voiced lines. But you are not entitled to apply this shitty reading style to the database which is to be used by everyone. 31 hours of voices; 6 hours by the character with the most voice lines. If I'm generous and say the MC and the narration has the same number of lines, and the reader can read that in 1/3 of the time, that's still +4 hours. So 35 hours of content. That is the base number which is objective. Your speedreading, where you clearly retain not even half of what was written in the novel, is not objective.
#12 by harleyquin
2020-06-28 at 13:09
But you are not entitled to apply this shitty reading style to the database which is to be used by everyone. 31 hours of voices; 6 hours by the character with the most voice lines. If I'm generous and say the MC and the narration has the same number of lines, and the reader can read that in 1/3 of the time, that's still +4 hours. So 35 hours of content. That is the base number which is objective. Your speedreading, where you clearly retain not even half of what was written in the novel, is not objective.

That "shitty reading style" you claim is actually shared by quite a lot of other readers who are native speakers, you tell me to tone down projection when you have no intention of doing the same.

You think because you listen to every line you can remember everything better than everyone else? Sure, congratulations on your photographic memory. I'm human, so am happy to remember most of what I read no matter how fast I did the reading several years down the line. Is it relevant how much I remember from a product after I finish to the length of a novel on this database? Absolutely not, don't even think you can claim that's the case. You've not proven you're the god-given authority on this database or anyone else regarding the definitive judging of the length of a visual novel.

For the record, the user diabloryuzaki can't read any of the JP novels he's voted on without machine help. If enough users on erogamescape quote a reading time of 20-30 hours, that's one estimate that's valid for this website. No one is obliged to take what you have to say about judging the length of visual novels as ironclad truth because it isn't meant to be that way on a database that anyone can edit.Last modified on 2020-06-28 at 13:15
#13 by tahu157
2020-06-28 at 13:12
I didn't realize vn length was such a hotly contested topic.
#14 by gvbn
2020-06-28 at 13:23
The current system needs to be replaced with a user vote based system that averages out different reading speeds and habits, and actually gives an accurate estimate instead of lumping both a 2h VN and a 10h VN in the "short" category despite the latter being 5x as long.
#15 by harleyquin
2020-06-28 at 13:25
he current system needs to be replaced with a user vote based system that averages out different reading speeds and habits, and actually gives an accurate estimate instead of lumping both a 2h VN and a 10h VN in the "short" category despite the latter being 5x as long.

+1 to that. It would render threads like these obsolete since each user would simply vote how long it took them. Get enough votes and a reasonable estimate to length can be obtained.

Problem is, I don't know how feasible it is to implement technically. Yorhel might think it's more trouble than it's worth.
#16 by mrkew
2020-06-28 at 15:20
#12
Is this database only for native speakers? No, that's EGS. Either way, the alleged reading style of one group for which you so brazenly speak is still pointless, because it's completely random in what you skip. There is no order, no standards. The content you skipped is still present in the VN and it still counts towards its overall length.
#17 by harleyquin
2020-06-28 at 15:33
Is this database only for native speakers? No, that's EGS. Either way, the alleged reading style of one group for which you so brazenly speak is still pointless, because it's completely random in what you skip. There is no order, no standards. The content you skipped is still present in the VN and it still counts towards its overall length.

Big talk from someone who claims others have reading comprehension troubles when his own comprehension of the database's own rules is just as torrid.

Very rough estimate of the time required to finish all endings of the visual novel.

There is nothing in the above which states we have to listen to every last line of a voiced VN novel before making a judgment on its length. I am not going to grow any wiser spending an extra 15-20 seconds waiting for a voiced line consisting solely of a woman screaming in sexual ecstasy, nor is it going to impair my understanding of what is going on.

Multiply the seconds saved for each line similar to the above, and that's racking up the hours. You claim there's no order nor standards, but this database doesn't ask for that. All that's required is ESTIMATING the length of time to finish all endings. Someone however thinks it's compulsory to have a stopwatch ready and to listen to every last line and read every single character at game auto-speed.
#18 by mrkew
2020-06-28 at 15:39
There is nothing in the above which states we have to listen to every last line of a voiced VN novel before making a judgment on its length
There's nothing which states CTRLing is not allowed either. You could be done with reading in 15 minutes. But common sense dictates that the word finish means actually finish, not skip through.
#19 by bobjr2000
2020-06-28 at 15:39
Just go with estimates doesn't need to be exact as harley says. Honestly most games have a few extra or less hours category put in.
#20 by mrkew
2020-06-28 at 15:48
Yeah, estimate unvoiced lines, but there is nothing to be estimated with voiced lines. There is exact length in each VN, and just the length of voiced lines in this VN is over 30 hours. Simple as that. If you want there to be 2 length numbers, one based on actual length, and one based on speedreading, go ahead and pull out the size of the script and the average char per minute reading speed of an N1 reader.
#21 by harleyquin
2020-06-28 at 16:08
There is exact length in each VN, and just the length of voiced lines in this VN is over 30 hours. Simple as that.

You've made your point about the length of voiced lines on multiple occasions. It doesn't change anything about the estimate for getting all of the endings. No one here is obliged to listen to every second of a game's audio recordings to reach a decision on game length, only you seem to be fixated on that and have gone to great lengths to impose your will on everyone else. Using your own example, of course it's doable to CTRL-skip everything and finish the game. Since you're liable to gross oversimplification, you'd think most of the entries in this database would be 15-20 minutes since that's what you're assuming everyone does. You're not the God of Visual Novels Length Judgment, however deluded you might think you are.

If you think everyone else should follow the rules you go by, start by getting the database rules on length changed. Doubt that's going to be a popular move, considering how the extraction of audio files from visual novels is non-trivial and doesn't fulfil any purpose except satisfying the OCD of a very select minority of database users.Last modified on 2020-06-28 at 16:11
#22 by mrkew
2020-06-28 at 16:16
The rules are fine as they are. Finish means finish, not skip. You disagree, so use EGS.
#23 by harleyquin
2020-06-28 at 16:25
If the rules are fine as they are, stop insisting skipping is taboo for estimating visual novel length.

I don't need to know every last moan and scream from sex scenes if I can read what's being said. It's not stopping me from reaching the ending, nor is the variation in time between skip and non-skip as drastic as you play it up to be.
#24 by ecchihieronymus
2020-06-28 at 16:26
I'm fine with the categories as they are now but I'd either use the script size or avg reading speed approach to determine the length.Last modified on 2020-06-28 at 16:26
#25 by mrkew
2020-06-28 at 16:27
#23
If it's not as drastic, how'd OP get from estimated 35h down to 22h? The estimate of speedreaders is pointless for anyone else.