Stop changing the VN length ffs

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#26 by harleyquin
2020-06-28 at 16:31
If it's not as drastic, how'd OP get from estimated 35h down to 22h? The estimate of speedreaders is pointless for anyone else.

It's still an estimate, which is the whole point. No one except you is asking for a definite measurement of visual novel length based on audio size.

So you're arguing Estimate (audio size) >> Estimate (speedreaders, skip of audio files). That's your opinion, that's not what the database sets as its ground rules and trying to gaslight everyone into thinking otherwise isn't building any consensus on what length for this novel should be.

I said earlier I was happy with the entry staying locked precisely because there's not going to be any consensus. Workaround as suggested earlier is for the database to allow votes on length, which is probably not happening anytime soon.
#27 by mrkew
2020-06-28 at 16:35
Look at this this video. Would you say it's 10 hours long? What if I told you that you can watch it at 1.5x speed while not missing anything and while comprehending the whole thing. Would it make the video 6.66 hours long? Of course not.
A song is not shorter because you can read the lyrics on your own faster.
A manga is not shorter because you only read the bubbles while completely ignoring the art.
And a VN is not shorter because you skip voices.Last modified on 2020-06-28 at 16:37
#28 by kiru
2020-06-28 at 16:41
Just a note about post #7. I highly doubt this game has 31 hours of voiced lines. The average VN has half of that. This game'd need to be so long, there'd no argument about medium or long, but most people would put it to very long without much of a thought.

You'd first need a good way to even measure audio length. There's no guarantee that the files don't have a ton of "nothing" afterwards for weird technical reasons, or your program uses the wrong bitrate or whatever. It's just way too far removed from what's realistic.

That said, the idea of this db's time was an average number. You slow? You can take a LOT longer. You fast? You'll be faster. For your average VN 1kb=1 minute is a pretty good figure, that's fairly easy. There's more to it though, as sometimes recycling happens (people will skip that) and so on.
#29 by harleyquin
2020-06-28 at 16:59
Visual novels are a combination of text, voices, music, art. Do you understand that? Not just text. If you want text, go read a novel. Someone skipping through a VN is not a good indication of the length. It's the same as CTRLing through parts which bore you and then claiming it's short.

Using your own words, visual novels aren't audio books. If you want audio measured to the precise second, there are many available which give you length and pure audio with no text to follow and skip ahead.

You've already been challenged regarding your "objective fact the audio files are 31+ hours long", so it's not so objective that others can question the veracity of your claim.

Based on link, quite frankly I'm really sceptical. User does not read novels without machine help and the initial claim isn't even put forward with any level of confidence. 7-9 hours per heroine route?! You're looking at very long rather than long with that estimation.Last modified on 2020-06-28 at 17:01
#30 by mrkew
2020-06-28 at 17:07
Lmao, challenged by whom? Someone who hasn't extracted the audio files? It takes literally 2 minutes to do it and check it. Yet you try to say that the length of the files THE GAME USES is wrong. You simply need to go to similar threads and you'll see #28 is a speedreader too.
#31 by harleyquin
2020-06-28 at 17:13
It takes literally 2 minutes to do it and check it.

2 minutes to extract audio files which you can then claim are 31 hours long?
Prove it. If all you're doing is extracting data and running the output to see what the length is in Windows Media Player or whatever, then it's not the objective proof you claim it is. Not to mention many games encrypt their audio files so extraction is a non-option for your preferred method of estimating length.
I agree with #28 as there are pauses in dialogue which add up to the total file size. If there's repetition of dialogue in the audio for whatever reason, it's file bloat which distorts the length.Last modified on 2020-06-28 at 17:16
#32 by fuukanou
2020-06-28 at 17:21
edit: never mindLast modified on 2020-06-28 at 17:21
#33 by mrkew
2020-06-28 at 17:29
メアリー, 小夜, あかり, 理沙, 美果子, ゆき, 電話の悪魔, その他 - in this order. The length is of the actual .ogg file which is forcibly played through the script directly in the VN. So the "pause" doesn't matter one single bit, since the VN will not move itself one line forward as long as the voice is not completed. Who would have thought it, that surprisingly, the length of a voice file is indicative of the length of the voice line.
Last but not least, IF voice files are encrypted, it is completely basic engine package, which has been cracked for every engine imaginable. There is not a game you can think of where it is not possible to extract the voice files. You are completely mistaking the difficulty of extracting voice/CG with extraction of the script, which indicates you have no experience in this matter whatsoever.
#34 by harleyquin
2020-06-29 at 00:11
Well done, assuming the length of the voice file is the gospel truth when YOU have completely ignored anything like a dialogue pause or repeated chatter is going to feature in the length anyway. For all your vaunted experience, you aren't going to play through each the audio files yourself and are taking everything at face value.

"Cracked for every engine imaginable".
Spare the gross oversimplification. Games with copy protection need to be cracked first before your magic engine can do its work. Even Doujin games need unpacking, which is more work than most casual players are willing to undertake. Your crusade to impose your will on everyone else doesn't take any prisoners.
#35 by mrkew
2020-06-29 at 01:11
You can run garbro and extract the files of any of the games released last week without cracking them (yeah, the protection is softdenchi, but it really doesn't matter). Is opening a software and clicking a package file too difficult for most people? Probably yes, but those people won't be able to navigate to this site. And again, the dialogue pause will appear in the game. It is intentionally put there by the creators.Last modified on 2020-06-29 at 01:13
#36 by harleyquin
2020-06-29 at 01:53
So dialogue pauses which are effectively bloat are part of the "user experience". Double standards; it gives nothing of value and I don't miss anything if I skip the spoken line which adds nothing to my understanding.

So you deign to speak for everyone who can be bothered to unpack internal files. Good for you, irrelevant to the question at hand. You're expecting every user in vndb to adopt your methodology when it isn't mandatory and doesn't add anything of value beyond stroking your considerable ego.

This thread is meant to reach consensus on the game length. As it stands the entry stays locked because no agreement can be reached. You can use this as your personal soapbox to preach your god-defined method of measuring novel length for as long as you like, it won't unlock the entry nor is anyone compelled to accept unquestioningly anything you have to say.
#37 by mrkew
2020-06-29 at 09:35
You're expecting every user in vndb to adopt your methodology

Wrong. As I said, I have nothing against the length rules. I have a problem with people like you and OP who aggressively try to change the length when they skipped 13 hours of content.
#38 by harleyquin
2020-06-29 at 09:56
You didn't vote on this, so you're just as aggressively defending something you haven't read either.

Your opinion is just as worthless as everyone else since the database isn't as anally retentive as you are on audio length. It's an estimate, so the database wants consensus before the entry is unlocked. That's not happening anytime soon, and the administrators and moderators are happy to sit on the sidelines.
#39 by phantomjs
2020-06-29 at 10:08
This thread is meant to reach consensus on the game length. As it stands the entry stays locked because no agreement can be reached.
The only way this is gonna happen is if the length voting system gets changed. As it stands, the current 4-choices-dropdown box and definition is extremely subjective, the respondents of this thread (mrkew, harleyquin, Diabloryuzaki, and hayashi) are all correct when looking at their perspectives, and leaving it unchanged will inevitably leads to more similar confrontations in the future

mrkew's comments on the audio files length got me thinking, maybe the description can be changed to something like 'roughly how long it takes to get all endings (and /or CGs) in the Visual Novel without skipping through anything', with stuff like audio files (if provided) being a good indicator. This should be a better representation of 'Length' (A.K.A amount of content in the VN) as currently being presented by VNDB (otherwise, should had named it 'User Playtime' or something and made it into a voting system)

Ofc this is just a suggestion, but if nth changes it will lead to more arguments like this and I'm not sure it's in everyone's best interest......Last modified on 2020-06-29 at 10:12


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