What Separates a Dating Sim from a VN?

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#1 by sonic-nancy-fan
2020-10-23 at 19:10
< report >Hello. I am really confused about the requirements for a dating sim game to be added. The category says "While VN's with dating sim elements are allowed in the database, dating sims with brief VN elements are not."

What constitutes brief? Many dating sims are short, so the stat-raising is about 50/50 with the VN story segments, so do they not count? The confusion is that some of the games included feel like they're on that 50/50 margin but are allowed, like Dandelion ~Neoege Buneun Baram~ is hours of stat-raising, and I'd argue the stat-raising takes more time than the VN elements. It certainly took me more hours of stat-raising than there were actual VN scenes, though the company itself does call it a visual novel and otome game. However, the wiki has no Pacthesis games, a very prominently known indie dating sim creator whose games are no more stat-raising than Dandelion (when you take into account play time differences).

I'd love to add some dating sims to the site that I consider VN's, but I am having a really hard time telling what would and would not be allowed on VNDB. Can anybody give some thoughts on what makes one dating sim allowed over another? The only rule I've seen is to have more VN in it than stat-raising, but I see plenty of VN's on VNDB that don't follow that (I know because I've played them), so I'm lost. Any thoughts are appreciated.Last modified on 2020-10-23 at 19:19
#2 by butterflygrrl
2020-10-23 at 22:07
< report >A lot of it comes down to who's interested enough in a game to add it, and who's interested enough in a game to complain about its addition. Anyone can add anything, even things that blatantly don't belong; they only get deleted if someone else notices it and raises a fuss about it and the mods step in. Sometimes there's an argument about it. Some games people still vehemently disagree about whether they should be here or not.

Otome games are often under-represented on this DB, because fewer of the hardcore users care enough about them to submit them. Many phone games get added but often go forever with no tags and no votes, because no one's really interested. So a game not being here doesn't necessarily mean that it was ruled against. It may mean no one cared enough to add it in the first place.

I remember the pacthesis games existing but I never played them so I don't have an opinion on them myself. I don't think anyone's ever tried to post them here. And if they did, without this thread existing to make people nitpick, I doubt anyone would notice or care. Big fights about whether games do or don't belong here usually only get kicked up when a game is popular.

As for some personal vague guidelines for what makes something worth including here...

Is there narration, or only dialog?
Is there a story, or does it just go on and on with nothing changing except your stats going up?
How long does it take after starting the game before you get to any talky bits? Are the talky bits usually just describing new activities you can do or new locations you've unlocked to date at? Are there long passages of just talking, or are they always quick and then you get back to the game? Would people who were completely disinterested in the talking parts still be able to play the game?
Are endings almost entirely determined by your stats, or are endings based around your story choices?

so with some stat-sim games, you're mostly just doing activities and there's a few lines of text at the end summing up how the week went, and then you turn right around and start the next week. That's not much of a vn.

with other sims, you do a bunch of activities, then you go into the weekend and a bunch of story stuff happens, then after you've caught up on the story you input your next week's activities. That's much more a VN-sim.Last modified on 2020-10-23 at 22:17
#3 by beliar
2020-10-23 at 22:39
< report >Butterflygrrl has pretty much nailed it. I don't think I have anything to add to her explanation.
#4 by sonic-nancy-fan
2020-10-23 at 23:04
< report >That's a really good explanation! It seems like in the end, even with some of the things you suggested, it's still largely up to the discretion of whoever makes the page I guess. Thank you for your general guidelines, and thanks to all who responded to the thread.

In general with otome dating sims, they tend to go:
-initial scenes with VN-dialogue
-map screen where you pick who to talk to, go buy stuff if you want, go to bed to get health back (health lets you talk to the characters again)
-each time you talk to a person, it's VN-like dialogue
-often the guys have scenes that are totally VN-like
-endings are usually based on a combination of the choices you pick and the stats because the choices cause affection point increases
-narration is usually just the thoughts of the MC if that counts. Seldom do I see third-person narrations

So with all of that, I think the ones I'm thinking of anyway would probably count.Last modified on 2020-10-23 at 23:05

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