Advancing Search

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#101 by Yuupan
2021-08-15 at 22:59
< report >Now that we have a more precise playtime of each VN, is it possible to change the lenght search to reflect that? At the moment, when searching a VN by lenght we can just choose between the old very short, short, medium, long, and very long category, but it would be really helpful if we could search like the realese date with a "≥", ">" , "≤", "<" and the playtime.
#102 by Ileca
2021-10-20 at 04:36
< report >Taking this query as an example, is there a way to put everything under an AND umbrella to search for a parallel character aka this > link, without having to rebuild the whole query? It can be a bit annoying as it can take time to rebuild a query.
Edit: you could allow to move the root AND to the left to create a new AND at its right that would serve as an umbrella for the current query, allowing us to create a new branch.

Also, I don't know if it will be used a lot but I thought disabling part of a query could be useful for debugging. Taking my last query as an example, I get zero results. I was surprised so I wondered if maybe I did something wrong. However, the only way to check if I am right is to remove the second AND, check if the left branch is working, fix it eventually, then rebuild the second AND branch. Disabling a node and everything that is as its right could be helpful for debugging a query for those who are used to make complex queries. Just a thought.Last modified on 2021-10-20 at 04:42
#103 by Ezezin
2021-10-20 at 06:49
< report >Do you mean something like this?: link
#104 by Ileca
2021-10-20 at 06:56
< report >Nope, you must start with link and reach link. You can't move the root AND/OR.
#105 by Yorhel
2021-10-21 at 09:13
< report >
is there a way to put everything under an AND umbrella
Fixed the ↳ button to now also work on the root node.

Also, I don't know if it will be used a lot but I thought disabling part of a query could be useful for debugging.
I had the idea to implement some sort of copy-paste function for parts of the query tree, but it's... tricky.
Temporarily disabling a branch can already kind of be done with an ugly hack: move it into an OR subbranch and add a filter that always matches.
#106 by Ileca
2021-10-21 at 09:42
< report >Nice.
#107 by Ileca
2021-11-01 at 21:51
< report >Can't find a way to filter amateur works. Filter VN where a release is linked to a producer who is neither an "amateur group" nor an "individual" (official releases that is).
#108 by vulkandrache
2021-11-02 at 13:33
< report >I do not understand this "new" search function at all.
Just came to the site because i wanted to check something.
All i wanted was to sort VN that have "incest romance" but do not have "no sexual content".

With the old system that was a few clicks and done.
Now i have some weird tetris symbol infront of the tag?
Including one and excluding another does not want to work at all?
Seems to me im expected to learn half a programming language to use that search function.Last modified on 2021-11-02 at 13:34
#109 by cubky
2021-11-02 at 17:54
< report >#108 Its not rocket science: link
#110 by Ileca
2021-11-02 at 19:27
< report >Ngl the new search is not noob friendly. I, myself, had a hard time figuring out how to exclude tags. It's not intuitive to have to invert to exclude.
Also, those Greek symbols are impenetrable and not helpful at all. If you ask me what ∃ or ∀ mean tomorrow, I will be unable to answer.
I remember when members linked some little complex queries and I was unable to reproduce. I felt pretty dumb.

Edit: why not use exclude instead of invert and EXC/INV:, ALL:, ANY: instead of those symbols?Last modified on 2021-11-02 at 19:37
#111 by vulkandrache
2021-11-02 at 21:29
< report >Well, after way too much time fiddling around i can reproduce that outcome.
But i still have no idea why or how i would go about searching for more complex combinations.

It looks like these tetris blocks are maths related?
What are they doing in a search? Why not use words that everyone can understand?

No, its not rocket science. But its way more complicated than it needs to be.
#112 by Mrkew
2021-11-02 at 22:04
< report >Remember when you complained in math class that you'll never need this stuff in real life? Well, you need it now.
#113 by Ileca
2021-11-02 at 22:40
< report >No, I don't remember because, despite having followed a scientific curriculum until 18, I have never encountered any of those three symbols.
Do you have other arguments other than being an elitist dipshit who even tries to gatekeep a search engine from people with no access to education? Can't say "learn Japanese" enough everyday?

Edit: this is clearly a basic engineer mistake where the engineer forgot that he was not designing a system for engineers.Last modified on 2021-11-02 at 22:43
#114 by Mrkew
2021-11-02 at 22:43
< report >People with no access to education wouldn't be able to read this sentence.
#115 by masturbator
2021-11-02 at 22:43
< report >the symbols do indeed seem to be math related vulkandrache (#111) but they are not greek symbols like Ileca says (#110)
you can read more about them at link and link
on a side note i wouldnt be surprised if someone on this site saw ∃ and mistook it for the katakana character
#116 by Ileca
2021-11-02 at 22:50
< report >Masturbator, I said Greek symbols to further my point that nobody knows what those symbols mean. >.>
It was about time someone rioted. :D

People with no access to education wouldn't be able to read this sentence.
I guess missing the point on purpose in your head was a smart retort. I beg to differ.
#117 by Mrkew
2021-11-02 at 23:12
< report >You're getting mad over nothing when the reply wasn't even at you. Just because you forgot it doesn't mean you didn't learn it. I learned it in a slavic shithole during early highschool. I highly doubt your imperalist western country doesn't have simple logic in general education.
edit: proof from frog textboox link (TL note: collège is from age 11-15)Last modified on 2021-11-02 at 23:30
#118 by cubky
2021-11-03 at 06:24
< report >Yup, simple logic is part of elementary education here as well.
But that does not even matter. The search system only uses logical quantifiers for the summary of a filter. The detailed look has "all" and "any", which change the used quantifier. If you cannot make the connection, then I am afraid the problem is not with the search system but somewhere closer to you.
Same for negation. You could argue that "invert" is not obvious, but I cannot relate. It was very obvious to me what the option does the first time I saw the new search system.
#119 by Yorhel
2021-11-03 at 08:58
< report >
Filter VN where a release is linked to a producer who is neither an "amateur group" nor an "individual" (official releases that is).
I'll fix a nested producers filter later.

The new advanced search does have a learning curve, sure, but I don't understand the complaints about the symbols. I don't expect you to know the symbols in order to use the search. As cubky mentioned, their meaning is not crucial to understanding how the search works, they're easily inferred and I could have used egyptian hieroglyphs to the same effect. Just so happened that there existed math symbols with the proper meaning, so might as well use that.

(But math education over here is a bad joke. I wasn't taught predicate logic until I entered university)
#120 by Ileca
2021-11-04 at 09:13
< report >The issue is that you have to infer them.
It becomes a problem if you want to reproduce with the help of a screenshot or a link to a prebuilt query. It happened to me at the beginning and I already had enough figuring out how to search what I wanted without having to figure out what those symbols meant and what triggered them.
I don't understand why you prefer something abstruse over something self-explanatory. Mind you, I mastered the search function so I don't care in the end if you replace those symbols or not. I am just thinking about people who are not computer literate or slow or whatever you want to call them. To me, a good interface is something that makes a process as painless as possible and that caters as much as possible to the lowest common denominator.
But, hey, let them struggle with how to exclude tags because it's called "invert" for some reason.
#121 by Yorhel
2021-11-10 at 12:16
< report >
Filter VN where a release is linked to a producer who is neither an "amateur group" nor an "individual" (official releases that is).
Think this fixes it.
#122 by Ileca
2021-11-10 at 20:39
< report >Nice. Now I can be weirded out by some games being from companies when they definitely looks like amateur jobs.
#123 by Jazz957
2021-11-10 at 21:01
< report >It's tricky because some companies sell their games as "doujin" (like Infini Brain with Lilith/Black Lilith or Amenonuboko with Appetite/Apadash) and some doujin circles (like Orcsoft or Dieselmine) are actually owned by a company.Last modified on 2021-11-10 at 21:06
#124 by Ileca
2021-11-10 at 21:33
< report >Uh? Appetite/Apadash spam isn't sold as doujinge. Same with Lilith stuff. I check getchu to see if it's doujin or not.
For Orcsoft and Dieselmine, I agree. If you can prove they are registered companies, you should be able to edit them. I understand why Orcsoft wants its doujin status. They use stock BCG and probably music too. It's not intuitive unless you have played their games.

Anyway, I was more talking about non JVN where it's hard to make the distinction between company and amateur group because the indie genre equals self publishing most of the time.
#125 by Jazz957
2021-11-10 at 22:38
< report >I think it may only be the download versions that get distributed that way. Lilith stuff is only in the doujin section of DLsite for example. DMM sells it on both the doujin and commercial sides.Last modified on 2021-11-10 at 22:42