Are the H-scenes important for this one?

Locked

Posted in

#1 by uselessguy
2021-01-12 at 19:01
< report >TitleLast modified on 2021-01-23 at 19:47
#2 by paragonias
2021-01-12 at 19:05
< report >No.
#3 by uselessguy
2021-01-12 at 19:17
< report >Pure fanservice? Gonna go for the remake then
tyLast modified on 2021-01-12 at 19:18
#4 by sovapex
2021-01-22 at 00:58
< report >I can't think of any VN aside from Song of Saya where the H scenes could be considered 'important'. It's almost always fanservice.
#5 by mutsuki
2021-01-22 at 01:17
< report >I can think of a few games where H-scenes have something that could be considered important, and it usually boils down to one of three things:
1: something important to the rest of the not-H plot is said by someone
2: something important is explained (different to 1 because in 2 it's only useful for the reader, 1 is for important for the plot)
3: something happens (someone walks in, something which has a lasting effect happens during sex etc.)

how important they are is usually debatable. for the most part types 1 and 2 could be placed somewhere else and type 3 could usually be substituted.Last modified on 2021-01-22 at 01:19
#6 by hansfranz77
2021-01-22 at 02:56
< report >I would still argue to this day the way they were done and explained in Fate/Stay Night was important to the plot and made far more sense then the censored bs we have nowadays. But you get shit for saying this on the net all the time. There are a fair few vns that do this, honestly. I recently played Tsujidou-san no Jun'ai Road and where it does do a fair amount of fan service scenes, there is also at least one scene per heroine that is relevant to the plot and affects the other girls in a direct way. Even a game like Kimi to Kanojo to Kanojo no Koi. which has some awful shit in it and lacks any impact on its endings, imo. Does have those scenes to further the "message" in it.

So yeah i hate the argument #4 tried to make here and i see it far too often on the net and rarely, if ever is there any back up to these kinds of claims given.Last modified on 2021-01-22 at 03:24
#7 by taiketsu
2021-01-22 at 05:19
< report >just for the arguments sake the only "important" h-scene would be with Yuzuha
bc she will give birth to Kuon which is an important character in the sequel but otherwise yeah.
You could also say bc there are no h-scene that our MC as king never touched a woman and had no concubine but yeah.
#8 by sovapex
2021-01-22 at 08:36
< report >#6 What argument, that H scenes are -almost always- fanservice? That's not an argument, that's a claim. And it's not a contentious one, evidenced by your fairly weak rebuttal. Unless the H scenes you're stumbling across don't have a bunch of lines that clearly exist to arouse the reader, which I almost never see.
Also, what evidence would you even accept that would substantiate that claim? A compilation of all the VN H scenes in existence with an analytical reading? It's not a deflection or a rebuttal, but you could easily take any message you find in said scenes and put them elsewhere.

Dunno why what I said stung you so. It's not like I advocated for getting rid of all H scenes, in fact, I enjoy them.Last modified on 2021-01-22 at 08:45
#9 by mrkew
2021-01-22 at 10:06
< report >#8 Big words for someone hiding their list.
#10 by sovapex
2021-01-22 at 11:32
< report >#9 Was that supposed to be an insult or something? Why would you want to look what VNs I've played? Guess you can't attack me on anything substantial, so you gotta... what, attack my tastes? Pretty cringe, my dude, not gonna lie. Honestly didn't realize I'd piss people off for pointing out H scenes typically don't progress the plot, but I guess this site is frequented by fragile people.Last modified on 2021-01-22 at 11:43
#11 by mrkew
2021-01-22 at 11:53
< report >People would easily point out the importance of H-scenes in VNs that you read.
#12 by ffthewinner
2021-01-22 at 12:55
< report >#4: The amane scenes in Grisaia no Kajitsu are important to the plot. The rest of the heroines' scenes not so much, but hers definitely.
#13 by hikagura
2021-01-22 at 13:06
< report >No, apart from 2, which are made you clear anyways in some way. Go with the steam ver, is very good
#14 by fallenguru
2021-01-22 at 13:18
< report >How bad is the script censorship apart from the H proper?
#15 by hansfranz77
2021-01-23 at 03:11
< report >
Dunno why what I said stung you so.
You mean aside form making sweeping generalizations and not substantiating your claims?
Now after #9 pointed it out i also looked at your profile and thought its a dummy account. But before i did that i even gave you plenty of examples to work with to have a discussion and you gave me nothing.

It's not like I advocated for getting rid of all H scenes, in fact, I enjoy them.
This might be the case for you, but you post in a public forum and you know what is happening to this industry for years now.
Case in point this game is an example of remaking something and cutting the adult content out. If you post in the way you did it's inviting discussion.
Which you did not even try to have, instead you deflected and started to play the victim as you got called out.

..but I guess this site is frequented by fragile people.
Do i even need to point the irony in hiding your list and then calling others fragile out? lolLast modified on 2021-01-23 at 03:28
#16 by sovapex
2021-01-23 at 03:32
< report >#11 Well, unless you account for exactly 50% of all H scenes in the list, you're not going to rebut my very tepid point that you take issue with.

#15 What sweeping generalization? You command the English language fairly well, so I have to assume you know what that means. Saying -most- H scenes are fanservice is not a sweeping generalization in the slightest.
Again, I'd have to ask how exactly I'm supposed to substantiate the claim that most H scenes are fanservice. The fact that you ignore me asking thus proves you, yourself, have no argument.
I gave you nothing for the examples you listed because said examples don't rebut my claim that -----MOST----- VN H scenes are fanservice. It's a ridiculous thing to even try to argue with even if you believe I'm wrong, because it means absolutely nothing in the long run.

Nah, I don't know what's happening to the industry. Nice baseless assumption. I'm currently able to play about 2% of the VNs I actually want to play nowadays and don't have the patience to learn Japanese for the rest. And the ones I do actually want to play usually aren't made all that often, it's usually slice of life waifu trash that gets the focus.
I didn't play the victim at all, I just think it's odd how you obviously got so triggered by so tepid a remark. I also don't think it's inviting discussion, it's just a fairly objective observation that anyone who's consumed a decent number of VNs, and is void of an agenda, would make.

You do need to point that out, actually, because you're assuming my reason for hiding the list is that I'm somehow embarassed by what I like and don't like, it sounds like. Which I'm not, I actually don't even remember hiding the list. I guess this is the topic most of you people use to joust with your e-egos, so sure, I'll unhide it.

But yeah, do go ahead and outline what exactly you'd accept as evidence. I'm actually curious to hear, because you certainly care enough about this topic that you don't mind looking like an overgrown child about it.

p.s. No idea how to unhide my list and honestly IDGAF enough to please your curiosity.Last modified on 2021-01-23 at 03:52
#17 by mrkew
2021-01-23 at 08:25
< report >You are backpedaling already from "almost always" to "most".
#18 by silvercover
2021-01-23 at 10:12
< report >in regards to the topic of "is fanservice really important to show", you could say that for everything really. you don't have to show an action scene, you don't have to show gore, you don't have to show a drama scene, etc. pretty much anything if you really want can just be condensed to statements if you want.
#19 by mrkew
2021-01-23 at 10:27
< report >That's not the topic at all. The argument is whether they are fanservice in the first place. You are making the same assumption as #4.
#20 by mondblut
2021-01-23 at 11:22
< report >I agree that the h-scenes were not story or relationship relevant at all and weren't even acknowledged later in the game, as if they never happened. There is one sex scene though which has implications for the sequels. But it is enough for it to be implied.

But what is also worth noting that the harem sex in the original may hurt the impact/genuineness of the actual main romance for you if that's what you're looking for in a VN/eroge. So if you are not into harem routes you'd maybe want to play the All Ages version anyway.Last modified on 2021-01-23 at 11:48
#21 by hansfranz77
2021-01-23 at 15:14
< report >
Nah, I don't know what's happening to the industry. Nice baseless assumption.

If that is really the case you honestly should've never commented in the first place let alone in a game thread you seem to have nothing of value to add to or even engage in helpful discussion at all.

You do need to point that out, actually, because you're assuming my reason for hiding the list is that I'm somehow embarassed by what I like and don't like, it sounds like.

No, that is never something i said in the first place, the only one that jumped to this conclusion was you yourself. I only listed stuff i played some recent others not as examples for games that contradict what you said and you didn't have a single example yourself and still felt the need to speak like you played hundreds upon hundreds of vns already. That is why i was pointing out that you had and still have nothing to show for yourself. And that is and was the problem. You argue something and bring not a single argument to the table. Instead seem hellbent on taking everything personal and the wrong way, hiding behind semantics, deflecting etc. Which i find hilarious so thanks for the entertainment, i guess. :D

If you have interest and bring arguments in the future we can have a discussion next time, but in the meantime. To be perfectly honest continuing this further is a waste of boths our time, so i stop here.Last modified on 2021-01-23 at 15:34
#22 by sovapex
2021-01-23 at 16:46
< report >#17 Yes, I'm backpeddling by downsizing the already HUGE amount of VNs and H Scenes to a lesser, but still massive number. 'most' and 'almost always' are two terms that vary in quantification depending on what you're talking about, but fine, lets push it to 90% why don't we.
Also, do you not think it's kind of sad that you're throwing out a couple of nitpicks and playing support due to your obviously supreme lack of confidence in having this argument yourself? Hansfranz isn't doing much better, since he's slaloming everything I say, but being his second is pretty sad.

#21 I like how you snipe one or two things and ignore the meat of what I'm saying, then accuse me of ducking an argument. I have asked twice now for you to outline what you'd accept as evidence so I can make an argument from my claim, but instead you are continuously running away like a pussy because you realize there was never an argument to be had on this issue.
You're not even being subtle about your dishonesty either. Instead you'd rather focus on some dumb shit that means nothing, like the VN List. You can act like the bigger man all you like, but you and your pillow biter were the ones who turned this into ad-hom first. So are you really a mature person looking for a discussion, or were you just butthurt that someone didn't have the same point of view as yourself?

Oh you stop here, nice, good job wasting both of our times on account of your cowardice.Last modified on 2021-01-23 at 16:47
#23 by hansfranz77
2021-01-23 at 17:30
< report >
I have asked twice now for you to outline what you'd accept as evidence so I can make an argument from my claim, but instead you are continuously running away like a pussy because you realize there was never an argument to be had on this issue.

I honestly have to wonder if you could be some special person at this point? Do you know how to argue in the first place? Why not give examples of any game you played. Like i did. You still have not done it!
It's.. just amazing how much hot air your every post blows without any substance starting form post 4# you made. And you did it again. This is why i do not want to waste any more time on my weekend with this. Despite this fact you come back with more of nothing all the time today. lol

you are continuously running away like a pussy because you realize there was never an argument to be had on this issue.
Honestly if it makes you feel better give yourself a pat on the back and think this way.

You made a fool out of yourself and that is all there ever was to it. Form the moment you decided to post into a thread of a game you had no idea about and even admitted you have no idea what you are talking about in the first place.
That also was the moment i stopped taking your crap seriously, so gg. I gave you plenty to work with and all you did is wasting both our time, so yeah i do not consider dragging this on fruther without any actual examples or arguments.
Beyond "it's so because i say so" worth while. I guess you "win" against the strawman you built for yourself.

Edit:
Also, do you not think it's kind of sad that you're throwing out a couple of nitpicks and playing support due to your obviously supreme lack of confidence in having this argument yourself?
Just read back and found this gem.. i honestly wonder if you want to become a meme with shit like this?!
I just can not stop laughing considering the fact that this is all your posts here in this thread boil down to. Pure comedy gold.. thank you!Last modified on 2021-01-23 at 18:11
#24 by sovapex
2021-01-23 at 18:09
< report >#23 You want examples? Fine. Cartagra and its sequels. Not a single H scene had to happen in those VNs, and there was a whole tonne of them, even a bunch of silly guro scenes. You can add Hanachirasu, Haruko Maniax, Zanmatasei Demonbane, Sakuranomori Dreamers to that list.
So, I gotta ask now that I've given you the examples you've only now asked for, --what does me posting these examples prove?-- What progress has this made toward proving the claim that the vast majority of H scenes are fanservice? I'll answer for you, since you'll probably ignore this: None. Because these examples only account for a very small amount of VNs ands H scenes in general, when my original claim was on ALL H scenes across ALL VNs. Why did you even ask for this? Answer: Because you're flailing in the dark, pretending to be some sophisticated intellectual when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
I've been asking this entire time for what you would consider evidence for my point, and you've only now decided to tell me. I don't really see how you can take this stance with that in mind. The whole reason I'm asking you is, as I've said many times, the only goddamn way to prove what I've said is to have a compilation of all H scenes with an analysis of each.

I admitted I had no idea what I was talking about when it came to the VN industry, but guess what, I didn't say anything about the VN industry. You're attempting to take that and conflate it to my stance on H scenes, which is slimy and dishonest as hell. But we knew that about you already.
On the contrary, this is the only moment you ever took me seriously because you finally gave me the inch I have been asking for since you started replying to me.

Alright, I've put in too much energy responding to you, so unless you've got something to say about my first couple of paragraphs, I'm just gonna bounce and do something more productive with this limited time we have on earth.Last modified on 2021-01-23 at 18:17
#25 by beliar
2021-01-23 at 18:15
< report >Okay, guys. I think you lot need to take a chill pill and do something more productive with your time. Go watch how your neighbour's house is burning or something equally fun.

Just because you feel that someone is wrong on the internet, doesn't mean you have to continue responding, because if this continues I'll lock the thread.Last modified on 2021-01-23 at 18:15