Reporting MTL releases

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#251 by sonicokyu
2022-05-14 at 23:18
< report >Only the Japanese-Spanish ""translations"" by that group's leader are edited MTL, the rest are just fine or mediocre.

Amaterasu doesn't seem like the same, and while bad, their mistakes are not the same as the one pointed out for TnS (English traced words and structure in what's supossedly translated from japanese and lying about the source of the language)
#252 by Daniale28
2022-05-14 at 23:26
< report >"C;H NoAH was marked as MTL because it was proven that the common route was machine-translated from the English translation" Well, that's another thing. It was already proven they DID MTLd stuff (not even from japanese?) and for games that are easier (?) then say, Muramasa, TnS. So there's no reason to think TnS is not an edited MTL (also i guess the same can be said about Totono and sayonara o oshiete, but I haven't played those games. I just assume it with those two because of what im seeing in TnS and what was already proven with Chaos;Head, plus someone in here just said that they can't even do english-spanish correctly?)Last modified on 2022-05-14 at 23:27
#253 by Ezezin
2022-05-14 at 23:31
< report >
I personally don't think showing a line and saying "it sounds like MTL" is enough.
And that's something I tend to do when labeling a release as MTL; otherwise I would have edited Yu Huyao de Tongju Shenghuo the moment I finished playing it.

But, again, I'm not convinced that this is not MTL or edited MTL. Those egregious "mistakes" + the almost confirmed lack of the translator's knowledge in Japanese and that he doesn't read or play what he translates tells me another story.
#254 by Daniale28
2022-05-14 at 23:43
< report >link Another "saviour-sama"Last modified on 2022-05-14 at 23:52
#255 by Ezezin
2022-05-14 at 23:45
< report >Yes Daniale28, I saw it the first time, no need to repeat the same thing.Last modified on 2022-05-15 at 07:13
#256 by tester
2022-07-30 at 18:45
< report >(Ones who speak Spanish, do not skip the last line, as I need you help now).

I have doubts about Shark Riders English translation being a partially edited MTL, as I have found some phrasing and such quite strange (or maybe I have just imagined it?) I decided to check my doubts with some phrases and...

Original line:
Aunque lográs que el tiburón emerja con un salto, no tenés forma de saber el momento preciso en el que diste el tirón.
English line:
Although you can make the shark emerge with a jump, you have no way of knowing the precise moment in which you gave the jerk.
Google Translate line:
Although you can make the shark emerge with a jump, you have no way of knowing the precise moment you gave the pull.

Original line:
Todavía vas por el tres cuando la boca enorme de Daana Koo emerge con violencia del agua engulliendo la cabeza de gorila para después cerrarse con violencia sobre tu cuello.
English line:
You are still going for three when Daana Koo’s huge mouth violently emerges from the water, first engulfing the gorilla head and then closing violently around your neck.
Google Translate line:
You still go through the three when Daana Koo's huge mouth emerges with water violence by climbing gorilla's head and then closing violently over your neck.

Original line:
El que se largó a llorar porque pensaste que me moría fuiste vos, Kunakuna.
English line:
The one who started crying because you thought I was dying was you, Kunakuna.
Google Translate line:
The one who started crying because you thought you were dying was you, Kunakuna.

Original line:
Mirás alrededor. Distinguís un bulto flotando a cierta distancia. ¿Podrá ser uno de los torsos de gorila?
English line:
You look around. You can make out a bulge floating some distance away. Could it be one of the gorilla torsos?
Google Translate line:
You look around. You distinguish a lump floating a certain distance. Can it be one of Gorilla's torsos?

Original line:
Te dejás caer al agua y te apurás en atar los torsos inflados de gorila a las costillas clavadas al costado de Daana Koo.
English line:
You drop into the water and rush to tie the inflated gorilla torsos to the ribs nailed to the sides of Danaa Koo.
Google Translate line:
You drop into the water and you hurry to tie the gorilla inflated torsos to the ribs nailed to the side of Daana Koo.

Original line:
Sentís cómo la cabeza de gorila se hace cada vez más liviana mientras los corazones sanguinolentos que la rellenaban se hunden en el mar.
English line:
You feel how the gorilla head grows lighter and lighter as the bloody hearts that filled it moments before sink into the sea.
Google Translate line:
You feel how gorilla's head becomes more light while the bloodstream that filled it sink into the sea.

Therefore I am writing here for Spanish-speaking people to ask: is this really (partially) edited MTL? Can I flag it as such? The file with translation and original lines is here.Last modified on 2022-07-30 at 18:50
#257 by shukumeiteki1
2022-07-30 at 19:04
< report >Translating from spanish > english and viseversa in google will give you extremely accurate results since the translation has become almost perfect (yes yes there are mistakes but still)

for example I'm going to create a random sentence then translate it to english and after that I will use google:

El niño corría por el campo y de repente algo lo asustó. <--- my sentence.
The boy was running through the field when suddenly something scared him. <--- my translation without checking google.
The boy was running through the field and suddenly something startled him. <---- google translation. lmao.

As you can see I would even change my translation since the first thing I could think of with asustar was scare but google used startle which fits even better I also used "when" when I should have used "and" as google did, then again both are correct imo and today I just can't type xD.

My conclusion is this is not a MTL.

EDIT: the writer is fluent in spanish and english link link just check his tweets.

Also I can't type today REEEEEEEEEELast modified on 2022-07-30 at 19:26
#258 by shukumeiteki1
2022-08-12 at 06:05
< report >I just tagged link as MTL because it is blatantly clear.

link

(even the steam description is clearly a mtl)Last modified on 2022-08-12 at 06:07
#259 by Ileca
2022-08-12 at 06:19
< report >Wonderful steam synopsis.

Have make movie until Cultural festival, if don’t make impress the audience, movie club will be forced to abolish.

Bery understanding, bery feeling.
#260 by NaioHoras
2022-08-12 at 11:56
< report >that steam synopsis... seems to me like a very bad english instead of MTL. MTLs have better grammar than that
#261 by vempele
2022-08-12 at 16:59
< report >...Definitely not an unedited MTL, a machine wouldn't have misspelled "we" as "wwe" at 0:57 on the video.Last modified on 2022-08-12 at 17:01
#262 by usagi
2022-09-01 at 06:29
< report >In my opinion r94892 shouldn't be marked as MTL - whether translator admitted using it or not. Because it's far cry from usual MTL stuff and let's be honest here - without such confession this translation would never be marked as MTL.
This is mere partial MTL at worst. Judging by what translator said - it's typical fantranslation (most of which I believe uses MTL as well) where MTL is used more as a digital dictionary tool rather than the only way to translate. Real MTL is not done for more than a year period. I don't think it's fair to mark translation as MTL just because translator is more honest than other "proper" translators.
Project like this O-SHI-KA-KE Saiminjutsushi ~Toraware no In'yoku Marionette~ should be marked as MTL since they are done just for quick bucks - not translations carefully crafted for year and a half. Amount of efforts put in these projects is incomparable and I believe placing them in the same league is just misinforming vndb users. The main purpose of using MTL is _fast_ translation after all - which definitely wasn't the goal here. I think MTL label's purpose is to filter out "trash" translations from readable ones - and with being extremely pedantic that task will be failed here.
#263 by marvn
2022-09-01 at 07:00
< report >> without such confession this translation would never be marked as MTL
Maybe, but that doesn't make it not MTL.
> typical fantranslation (most of which I believe uses MTL as well)
Projection.
> MTL is used more as a digital dictionary tool
There are, you know, dictionaries out there? To use as dictionaries?
> I think MTL label's purpose is to filter out "trash" translations from readable ones
I think it'd be to label things as MTL.

A dressed up MTL is still MTL, if you turn to MTL because you can't understand what you're reading what's to say the MTLs are better? It is a shame they put in that effort since they could have spent that time... editing an actual translation, or learning Japanese to the point they don't need to MTL, or something.
I MTLed some stuff to read in the past before I started learning Japanese, even had a couple chapters of some shitty web novel I tried "translating" into a google doc I thankfully never shared with anyone. It took a ton of effort to make it readable English, doesn't mean it's any less bad.Last modified on 2022-09-01 at 07:01
#264 by cubky
2022-09-01 at 07:31
< report >
In my opinion r94892 shouldn't be marked as MTL

It should very much be marked as MTL.

And thats not just my opinion, but the actual rules. Though I only found a mention of it in d2. We should really document that flag in d3 as well.Last modified on 2022-09-01 at 07:37
#265 by HataVNI
2022-09-01 at 08:33
< report >I talked to the guy too and he also confirmed it to be MTL to me. However, it seems to be another difficult case like Amayui Castle Master where the MTLness is actually below the surface and not visible by badly written text. Maybe in DeepL's age we will encounter more of such projects and it's honestly worrying me a little.
#266 by sonicokyu
2022-09-11 at 04:51
< report >Regarding r95295 there's proofs of it being at least MTLd in a few parts, yet the translators haven't given any proof that debunks the accusations.

Another thing is that the group already has reputation by MTLing Muv luv and some nukiges, the Fate Empire of Dirt TL is apparently not an MTL but it was done by someone that's not in the group anyways.

Also this comment (r95295.11) seems unnecesary to me and I don't understand who are those "bad guys" he's talking about?

Anyways, just look at the comments in this page link. Everyone is agreeing on it being MTL.
#267 by sonicokyu
2022-09-11 at 04:55
< report >Also while this isn't the place, it should be added here because it validates the fact they're MTLing for reasons. I heard testimonies of various translators about how the leader of this group (PGJ, not the other Proyectos Misumi group) is notorious for lying and making up stuff about how he knows too much japanese because his father is japanese or something like that? idk

link
linkLast modified on 2022-09-11 at 05:00
#268 by catboy
2022-09-11 at 05:45
< report >Is MTL used for actual machine translations or just poor English, grammar, etc? I genuinely can't tell.
#269 by HataVNI
2022-09-11 at 06:33
< report >If it is bad it is MTL. This is the rule that the VN community uses since the beginning of time.
#270 by shukumeiteki1
2022-09-12 at 01:52
< report >The spanish community for translations is literally a brothel... there is a constant bickering all the time, is hard to tell what is what anymore since there is a perpetual fight between the groups translating and accusing each other...
#271 by oscarotaku1
2022-09-12 at 08:23
< report >link
hello, you only talked about the past of the group that was years ago, but you have no proof that the translation is genuinely MTL, also it is impossible that it is MTL for the different reasons;
1-the patch has many spelling and grammar mistakes
2-automatic translations have a low percentage of spelling errors but its defect is that in most of the dialogs it is not understood and you get lost, also the vn uses the KiriKiri engine, from what I understand, this engine is easy to do automatic translations . but this is not the case.
3-It is also very easy to identify when the translation is MTL, the readers who have downloaded our patch are very grateful, if the translation was MTL, the same readers of our page would have abandoned us and burned or flagged us on Facebook pages.

Recently, on our Facebook page, I made a post where I mentioned that we were being attacked on vndb, MTL marking our patch, and asked readers what they thought about our patch, you can read the comments;

link

Thank You!
#272 by madotsuki-chan
2022-09-13 at 16:16
< report >Well, this is going to be long, I guess... I'm here to talk about Otome Domain (link) too, responding the last post of this disscussion.
Before all of this, I have to say that this is a data base, we don't care about your stupid wars, stolen translations and another irrelevant things. We are talking about A TRANSLATION and HIS QUALITY, nothing more, nothing less.
1 - Yep, it has a lot of grammar and spelling mistakes. There is no a one line good, tbh. All of them have mistakes. It is MTLE.
2 - So you know that it's easy to MTL games on Kirikiri engine, and Otome Domain is on that engine, but 'you didn't use that'. If you don't do MTLs, you should not know that, so I think that specifically that last post and this second part says a lot about your party.
3- Well, I think it was a good idea to ask your readers their opinion about this, but to use that opinion to improve your translations, not for use it as an excuse, like you are doing right now. Btw, this is the most popular website to download visual novels on Spanish, and if you talk about the people on your Facebook, I think this should be seen too. link
A lot of people is saying it is an MTL, so the Spanish vndb member who edited the entry are not the only ones.
4 - I've have to add this. Project Gamer Japonés did more than one MTL before, so I don't think we can just believe that this is not another one, when the translation is from the same people who did that before (Proyectos Misumi are just going to edit the translation).

And if you want proofs, here you have.
First of all, it's not just about having grammar mistakes to "hide" that it's an MTL, it's about being too literal translating, having translation mistakes for don't understand what you are reading/writing and even having the same order that on the Google Translate version. I've just took a random line, take look (and if you want screenshots, tell me how can I shot them here and i'll do it):
Jap: 僕の両親が死んだとき、残された僕の世話をするために、おばあちゃんはメイドの仕事を辞めた。
GT: Cuando mis padres murieron, mi abuela dejó su trabajo como empleada doméstica para cuidarme.
PGJ: Cuando mis padres murieron, mi abuela dejo su trabajo para criarme.
They've just changed the last part, even loosing part of the meaning, cause they don't say what was her job in this case.
Btw, I don't know if some parts are really translated by a person, I just can check Spanish quality and searching on GT, because I don't know Japanese for translate. Meanwhile, I don't think the people who translated this have the necessary level for translate too.
And the last thing; even if they've know some Japanese, not know how to even write in your natal language does not inspire confidence at all.
It's not just a phew mistakes, it's not just about a phew lines translated literally like a machine - this is really unreadable if you know something basic about Spanish.
#273 by anothervnreader
2022-09-13 at 17:38
< report >Why not try to ask the translator himself? This guy link

If he says it's MTL, mark it as is.
If not, I guess the current notes will do.
Jeez, much ado about nothing yo...
#274 by marvn
2022-09-13 at 20:30
< report >Yes mtl releases should not be marked if the (accused) mtler claims it's not mtl, sounds perfect. Nobody could ever lie on the internet.
#275 by anothervnreader
2022-09-13 at 21:38
< report >This case is not obvious, so it's the best one can do, mister judge. Everyone agrees on it having poor grammar tho, even on their fb page, so I see the notes spot-on.Last modified on 2022-09-13 at 21:39