When should a remake be a separate entry?

Posted in

#1 by vdz
2021-05-15 at 18:54
< report >Yesterday, the Switch remakes of Famicom Tantei Club 1 & 2 were released. While - as far as I know - the story has not been changed, everything else has, with the simple Famicom graphics and audio replaced by high-res animated sprites and CGs and full voice acting. I haven't played the originals so I don't know to what extent the gameplay was changed, but from the screenshots I can already tell the 'examine' function where you can click stuff in the background to get a description/comment on it is either new in the remake or not as extensive in the originals (there's a whole lot of stuff you can examine in the background that simply isn't depicted in the Famicom versions). With how different the remake is to the original, I imagine at least players would rate the two very differently. I imagine some of the technical tags would also differ between the original and the remake.

Famicom Tantei Club (Switch) is currently a Release in the original game's VN entry, while games like Ever17 (new Ever17) and Tsukihime -A piece of blue glass moon- (Tsukihime remake) have separate entries. At the same time, the Yu-No remake is only a Release on Kono Yo no Hate de Koi o Utau Shoujo YU-NO, as is the Doukyuusei remake (Doukyuusei).

So when should a remake be a separate entry, and when should it be a Release on the original's entry? d2 specifies when an original new game should be added, but it doesn't clarify when something should be considered a separate game.
#2 by beliar
2021-05-15 at 19:44
< report >The key is to determine if the new release is a remaster or a remake. A remaster simply provides a new shiny coat of paint to the game (new graphics, new soundtrack, voice acting, but the story is kept the same and there are non-significant differences to the gameplay). We keep such releases together with the old ones. Like the aforementioned Yu-No that is story-wise identical to the old version, and basically contains only the 'improved' (or 'downgraded' as far as I'm concerned) graphics.

A proper remake makes significant changes to the story, and that is what usually end up separated from the old versions. So, if the new Famicom Tantei Club doesn't make significant changes to the story, it shouldn't be a separate release.

Though admittedly, 'significant changes to the story' is treated somewhat in a lax manner as far as romance games are concerned, because if we split releases into a new Vn entry every time the game gets a new girl route added to it, the db would end up flooded with hard to parse entries.
#3 by vdz
2021-05-15 at 20:03
< report >
Though admittedly, 'significant changes to the story' is treated somewhat in a lax manner as far as romance games are concerned, because if we split releases into a new Vn entry every time the game gets a new girl route added to it, the db would end up flooded with hard to parse entries.

It's not just romance VNs, though; Dies irae for example also had major additions (apparently half the routes weren't even present in the original release) and r3228 implies the whole script has been rewritten at some point. Then there's the matter of episodic releases like Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, especially when episodes were added past the original planned ones (e.g. the PS2 version (r1679) has three new episodes). It would be nice if some explicit standards for this would be added to the guidelines.Last modified on 2021-05-15 at 20:05
#4 by beliar
2021-05-15 at 20:14
< report >I wouldn't be against splitting Dies irae, if I was sure there are major differences between the original 2007 releases, and the 2009 re-release.

The situation with Higurashi no Naku Koro ni is somewhat of a shitshow, as new episodes were tacked onto the original releases like tumors with every new console iteration. Every split I can imagine will make the series even more confusing, but sure, if you can provide a reasonable idea how to do that without making it worse, I would be all for it.
#5 by iwannarategames
2021-05-15 at 20:29
< report >I asked about this particular game myself.

If the remake has a different script, then all traces of it should be removed from the wiki since it will probably not have uninterrupted reading segments due to it having to be faithful to the original presumably.
#6 by vdz
2021-05-15 at 20:52
< report >
it will probably not have uninterrupted reading segments due to it having to be faithful to the original presumably.
Most of it is indeed in traditional Japanese adventure-style, where you make a choice, get a couple lines of dialogue (and sometimes protagonist thoughts), then go back to a choice menu. There are however occasional moments of longer uninterrupted reading when plot events occur or particularly long explanations are given, though they're still nowhere near e.g. Kyokugen Dasshutsu 9-Jikan 9-Nin 9 no Tobira's VN sequences in length.

then all traces of it should be removed from the wiki
Should it? Melty Blood has Releases for all Melty Blood games, even though d15 explicitly notes that the later ones are not VNs (and implies that's okay for Releases as long as they're for proper VN entries).
#7 by vario
2021-05-16 at 05:57
< report >
if you can provide a reasonable idea how to do that without making it worse

I think it might be better with these entries

1. Higurashi no Naku Koro ni (1-4 ch)
2. Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai (5-8 ch)
3. Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Rei (extra stories, doesn't contain main chapters afaik)
4. Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Matsuri (page for console editions marked as an alternative ver.)

Matsuri was the first console port so I think it'd be fine to keep its name as a title. Later ports (Kizuna, Sui and Hou) will be there as releases. Since this page is an "alternative version", there is no need to add every original chapter to releases like r59848 does for example. Release note with a list of chapters is more than enough.

Higurashi Hou and Hou+ (PC ver.) should stay as releases for 1-8 chapters and Rei since they are simple rereleases containing all previous chapters with a few short extra stories (again, release note with a list will be enough).

This way vndb can separate lots of console releases into a different page and each page's release list will look simplier.
#8 by sup-chan
2021-05-20 at 11:15
< report >Having remakes/remasters with separate entries is personally a no brainer and should've been expanded a long, long time ago on this website. The line gets a bit more blurry with bundles (like what people are arguing with Higurashi/Umineko or the different releases of DI, for example), but stuff like Famicom Detective Club should really have different entries.

Every single other game database has this feature for remakes and remasters because they understand that the experience that you get from the original game to something like this (for example) is entirely different, not only because of the updated art and resolution, but thanks to the QoL features and easier to understand/navigate menus.

There should be no arguments against this. Simply separate the releases with something like this:

1 - Famicom Detective Club: The Missing Heir
2 - Famicom Detective Club: The Missing Heir (2021)

And it's golden.Last modified on 2021-05-20 at 11:17

Reply

You must be logged in to reply to this thread.