How to handle Miotsukushi (and other suggestions)
|#1 by kilicool64|
2021-06-12 at 12:38
|< report >The way Miotsukishi is currently treated here doesn't really make sense. The history of this arc is complicated, but here's how it is.|
It was originally created for Matsuri. Kizuna carried over most of this arc with relatively minor changes, but it also added a large new chunk of content in the middle of it. Sui split this off into a separate arc called Miotsukushi Ura, while renaming the rest to Miotsukushi Omote. But to the best of my knowledge, the actual content of both stayed the same.
However, the descriptions here falsely claim that only Ura originates from Kizuna, while Omote made its debut in Sui. So I'd suggest changing them so that both Ura and Omote are treated as part of Kizuna. Sui's entry should only cover Hajisarashi, the only arc that was newly added there.
Of course, Omote's content mostly originated in the original version of Miotsukushi in Matsuri, but it would probably be confusing if we asked people to only treat the rewritten bits as part of Kizuna.
While I'm at it, Matsuri added more than just the three arcs mentioned in its description. It also featured a common route that various arcs branch off of. From what I've heard, its scenes are mostly taken from existing arcs, but there is some new content as well. So those parts should be associated with Matsuri.
Furthermore, I hear the Hirukowashi included in Kizuna is a largely different scenario than the Hirukowashi found in Rei. I don't know if it even shares any of the original text. So Kizuna should probably cover it.
|#2 by onorub|
2021-06-12 at 18:06
|< report >And this kind of thing is why people were hesitant about giving entries to the console arcs. Maybe u110446 should've given it more thought before suddenly deciding that they NEEDED entries.Last modified on 2021-06-12 at 18:06|
|#3 by beliar|
2021-06-12 at 20:17
|< report >Yeah, this is exactly why I wanted for someone to provide a reasonable plan before implementing it. As it is now, it's no better than the previous solution of putting everything under a single entry. |
Now, will someone undertake the task of untangling the mess that are the console arcs? I personally feel that the least contentious solution would be merging Matsuri/Kizuna into a single entry named something like "console arcs". What do others think?
|#4 by onorub|
2021-06-12 at 22:55
|< report >I'd say it's the best solution. My opinion is that the less entries the better to avoid confusion and the arguments towards making the console arcs separate from vanilla version were pretty sound, specially with the chapters with completely different characters.|
|#5 by danpmss|
2021-06-13 at 04:23
|< report >Given that the Console Arcs have whopping 100+ hours on themselves of completely extra content unrelated to the OG consistent canon and which they also modified, with quite a bit of the script rewritten even in canon arcs (entire chapters omitted, while adding entire extra days and scenarios -even rearranging how characters are first introduced in some cases, as early as Onikakushi-, long and substantial additional TIPs and events leading to timeline "route" branches starting from Sui), I'd say that's most definitely the best way to handle these.|
Also read this regarding Miotsukushi and why they should essentially be separate entries with clear distinctions from one another in their respective console counterparts:
linkLast modified on 2021-06-18 at 12:59
|#6 by Mario3573|
2021-09-02 at 17:47
|< report >Wait why wasn't Sui merged too, this just made it even more confusing. Matsuri/Kizuna/Sui all have new arcs added in their releases, why were only the first 2 merged?|
|#7 by beliar|
2021-09-02 at 18:10
|< report >Oh, I totally agree that Sui should be merged too, though I wanted to gather some opinions. I can merge it, or I can edit its description to remove the mention of "Miotsukushi ". I favour the former, but I wanted to be sure there isn't anything that would prevent me from doing that. Didn't want to mess up.|
|#8 by phantom-zero-12|
2021-09-02 at 18:41
|< report >No real reason not to merge Sui if the other two have already been merged.|
Also the votes on the length of this entry should probably be removed, since they're all still for Matsuri only.Last modified on 2021-09-02 at 18:47
|#9 by selipse|
2021-09-11 at 17:27
|< report >Okay so let me explain myself.|
I started reading Higurashi for the first time last year, through the Switch release. This was a maddening experience as a first timer, due to how the game forces you to read console arcs in a weird order.
I wanted to read arcs in release order instead, and found myself lost as there didn't seem to be any easy to read list of each arc's release in the case of the console-originals. I also found it bizarre that there was no entry for the console arcs here to begin with. And so, I decided to look up what I could and added the entries.
Now, this thread, and this whole change seems to have originated with Miotsukushi's inclusion in Sui, which, I must say, wasn't my doing. I only included Hajisarashi back then. The Miotsukushi Wars started afterwards and I wasn't totally well-informed on the subject so I just let things run free.
Anyways, I must admit I haven't read the console arcs yet and this is the only place I'm getting my Miotsukushi info from, but if I'm getting what OP is saying here, I think you guys are making things unnecessarily confusing. You're only confusing yourselves, in fact.
So this is how it is, right?
- Only Miotsukushi Omote content is in the og release of Matsuri (simply not labeled as such because Ura didn't exist yet to contrast with it)
- Miotsukushi Ura content is new to Kizuna, simply not labeled as such
- Sui finally labeled them and separated them both, and there is nothing new in them there
If we were to go back to the old entries I created, descriptions like this should suffice imo:
- Miotsukushi (only the content later labeled in Sui and on as "Miotsukushi Omote")
- Miotsukushi (only the content later labeled in Sui and on as "Miotsukushi Ura" is new to this release, but it also includes "Omote" content)
In any case, the new combined entry works for what I wanted, I'll just have to make an edit to the description as such to have the easy to read list I was looking for back then:
This entry is only concerned with the original content featured in the console exclusive releases of Higurashi series, known as 'Matsuri', 'Kizuna' and 'Sui':
• Miotsukushi-hen (only the content later labeled in Sui and on as "Miotsukushi Omote")
• Someutsushi-hen (Kizuna 1)
• Kageboushi-hen (Kizuna2)
• Yoigoshi-hen (Kizuna 3)
• Tokihogushi-hen (Kizuna 3)
• Kotohogushi-hen (Kizuna 4)
• Miotsukushi-hen (Kizuna 4; only the content later labeled in Sui and on as "Miotsukushi Ura" is new to this release, but it also includes "Omote" content)
The only point for having separate entries was to have separate votes/scores data, but I guess Kizuna itself is varied enough to make that not really worth it.
|#10 by kilicool64|
2021-09-12 at 01:14
|< report >It's a bit more complicated than that. The Matsuri version of Miotsukushi received various changes when it was turned into Omote. The amount of lines that got altered isn't huge, but some of the changes recontextualize things rather drastically (the whole Rika is Hanyuu twist didn't exist originally). So those would have to be treated as separate arcs, despite a lot of overlapping content.|
There are also confusing matters that currently aren't covered at all. Such as the existence of the common route which has a lot of content that belonged to specific arcs in the PC version, but also some new stuff. Or the Kizuna version of Hirukowashi, which is supposedly fairly different from the PC-exclusive original.
The whole matter is so convoluted that there is probably no perfect way to handle it. I think the current approach of putting all the console arcs into one release is okay (though the phrasing regarding Miotsukushi is a bit misleading), but it still has the issue of not covering other console-specific changes.Last modified on 2021-09-12 at 01:15
|#11 by iikrina|
2021-09-19 at 18:39
|< report >@yotuba I don't like how Miotsukushi has been worded, and you've completely missed out Miotsukushi PS2 ver. It is significantly different from Omote, as the previous poster has said. The way to handle Miotsukushi is very simple:|
Matsuri- Miotsukushi PS2 ver.
Kizuna- Miotsukushi Ura
Sui- Miotsukushi Omote
|#12 by kilicool64|
2021-09-19 at 23:21
|< report >@11 No, that would make even less sense. Miotsukushi Omote was NOT a new addition to Sui. All of its content was already present in Kizuna. Sui is just where Miotsukushi Omote and Ura got split into two separate arcs and got their current names.|
|#13 by iikrina|
2021-09-20 at 02:52
|< report >Well, whatever. I don't know about the history of it so forgive me for that. Tbh I'm just asking for Omote and the PS2 version to be listed as 2 separate arcs.|
|#14 by kei-tr|
2021-11-25 at 22:07
|< report >If I am going to read Miotsukushi Omote should I read Miotsukushi PS2 as well? If so, which one I should read first?|
|#15 by iikrina|
2021-11-25 at 23:22
|< report >They are significantly different at times so I would recommend reading them both. Personally I read the PS2 version before Omote.|
|#16 by kilicool64|
2021-11-26 at 12:17
|< report >I'd go for the PS2 version. Omote really only improves on one aspect of it, and it turns a far more significant aspect of the arc into complete nonsense. One thing worth noting though there is one aspect of the PS2 version (Hanyuu's backstory) that was later moved into Kotohogushi, where it was drastically expanded upon. The reveals in it are no longer fully canon, so don't think too hard about it.|
If you want to see what Omote changes, you can skip through it afterwards. As long as you set skip mode to stop at unread lines, this should allow you to skip all the repeated content. I don't think it's really worth reading the whole arc twice unless you're very patient. Most of it is still the exact same.
Also note that Omote has a massive list of prerequisites. You shouldn't read it before going through the entire Advanced Story (Someutsushi, Kageboushi, Tokihogushi, the new connecting fragments and Miotsukushi Ura). If you care about minor references, you should also read Yoigoshi after Kageboushi.
The PS2 version doesn't really have any real prerequisites aside from the main arcs. It does have some minor references to Tsukiotoshi, though.
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