A VN Play Time Voting Thing

Posted in

#176 by hansfranz77
2021-08-24 at 19:22
< report >#174
I really do not understand the whole register as a service thing, so forgive me. But i can tell you i never did that and i use gtt now since the playtime update vndb got (three weeks, right)? So i doubt i still would have to do anything at this point.
I'm not exactly sure if gtt doesn't maybe have a few bugs if you let a vn playing in the background with counting interactive times and idle times as separate, but aside form that it is a damn useful tool, at least for me. I did also use mt for a day, but it came across as far too overblown for just counting game times.

And as for the autostart problem you apparently have, you do know you can just put any program link into the windows folder and configure programs that way manually, right? Hell you can even put .bat files and other things in there and they should work the very same way. I'm on windows 10, so maybe it is not exactly the same folder path for other windows versions, but there you go: Path C:\Users\username\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\StartupLast modified on 2021-08-24 at 19:38
#177 by Ileca
2021-08-24 at 19:46
< report >I know that but iirc on W7 it is just starting the software as a regular user when on the desktop, prompting you with UAC. I do not stay while my computer is starting because it takes too much time, meaning the UAC is discarded after a while.
Just tested on W10 and no prompt. The process was just discarded.
If you tell me to disable UAC then I will answer that this is pretty dumb and dangerous.
It makes sense that you shouldn't be able to run as admin a software using this method. The methods I know are to use the task scheduler and create a shortcut with elevated rights. If MT doesn't need admin rights, I am sure this software shouldn't need it. Too many software require that for no good reason. Really annoying.

Edit: I also remember another downside: it only records dates of first and last session. When I forget to launch it, it's impossible to find the last time you played a game if you made the mistake of starting the game since then even for a second. I am in this situation rn and this is so annoying.
The gameplay statistics are freaking ridiculous as it shows you only the amount of time waste, no discrimination. Completely useless.Last modified on 2021-08-24 at 19:57
#178 by marvn
2021-08-29 at 06:35
< report >Bringing attention to #161 again, I hope something for script size/length information can be added. It'd be some very concrete and useful information about releases.
#179 by Yorhel
2021-08-29 at 07:36
< report >@marvn: Script size has been discussed a few times before. Its usefulness does not weigh up to the downsides, so it's not likely to be added. Search the forums if you want a more detailed answer.
#180 by marvn
2021-08-29 at 09:47
< report >Ah, that's unfortunate. Though looking at the reasoning I think that this information can be contributed while still being imperfect.
File size and encoding: yeah, definitely can be inconsistent. But jpdb already has a list of some titles with character counts and line counts, I think it's definitely useful information. Word counts would be less objective since text parsing isn't so clear-cut.
To keep consistency you could set some guidelines on what information to include and how to calculate it and such.
Repeated text: imo just don't count it.
What did you mean 'ratio between text/instructions' though?
Anyway I don't think it should be used to determine a read time number or anything, just that it'd be useful information to have.
#181 by fallenguru
2021-08-29 at 16:25
< report >@179 Consistent or not, script size comes up again and again, even in official communication.

Having people vote on the length has been discussed before, and shot down. Obviously you re-evaluated the reasons against that. ;-) It was worth a shot.
#182 by diabloryuzaki
2021-08-30 at 00:00
< report >"Repeated text: imo just don't count it."

it seems like i don't understand this part correctly, what did you mean by "repeated text"? did you mean for characters repeat what they have been said or think before? for example like Suisou Ginka no Istoria?
#183 by Ileca
2021-08-30 at 01:17
< report >Repeated text as identical text on different locations, specifically text you can ctrl through because you already read it, though not plain bad writing like Liar-soft's redundant sequences.
#184 by hinoe
2021-08-30 at 03:09
< report >@yorhel Please see question ref. transition in #158.
#185 by Yorhel
2021-08-30 at 04:57
< report >@hinoe: I haven't worked out the details of a transition yet, but I don't plan to throw away the existing old lengths if there aren't any votes. Maybe convert them into a vote that'll get auto-removed if someone else votes, maybe keep it as a separate field, dunno.
#186 by Ileca
2021-08-30 at 06:08
< report >I don't see what's the problem with the current setup. Old lengths are still shown when there is no votes. "The original length will eventually be removed" probably refers to when every old length will be replaced by votes. However, I am sure this will never happen. The old system allowed us to select a very rough length by comparing VN with each others. Meaning that even if you spent 100 hours deciphering a VN with low language proficiency, you could still estimate the length by experience, because other VN you spent 100 hours on were all marked as 30-50H. Now, this is impossible because you can't deduce a reasonable precise length.
Many oldge will never get a single vote because of that.

Edit: yeah, you could input those 100 hours as "slow" but this is pretty pointless. It's better to have no vote than a... idk, 75H length for a 40H long VN.Last modified on 2021-08-30 at 06:17
#187 by gambs
2021-09-03 at 02:16
< report >There seems to be a bug with this feature, Tsukihime -A Piece of Blue Glass Moon- says on its page that it has an average playtime of (43h38m from 2 votes) but then link shows that the two votes are 47h1m and 52h, with an average of 49h30m
#188 by Ernovace
2021-09-03 at 02:34
< report >That is because of multipliers for Slow and Fast.
I do not know the exact number though.
#189 by moyang
2021-09-03 at 04:19
< report >Currently it's *0.75 for slow and *1.25 for fast.
#190 by joey1313
2021-09-03 at 04:27
< report >there should be a priority option for people that use a specific application time tracking software such as gameplay time tracker or maniactime, as those times are just so much more reliable than other people "estimating" their time or using steam time.
#191 by adamstan
2021-09-03 at 05:04
< report >Isn't that getting overly paranoid over it? Besides, there's no way to check what actually every player has used, so it's pointless - if you put such condition, then everybody will just say that they used your accepted software to circumvent it :P After all, it's all based on the comments field, which isn't even mandatory.Last modified on 2021-09-03 at 05:04
#192 by joey1313
2021-09-04 at 03:22
< report >I just think that voting times start to lose their meaning when people throw in their terribly inaccurate steam time / estimation of how long it took for them, and it would at least deal with the problem of people being ignorant about how flawed their estimated time is.
#193 by adamstan
2021-09-04 at 05:20
< report >Unless someone lets the VN sit idle in the background for hours, I don't see any problem with Steam's time.

It almost sounds like you couldn't stand that voting results are too different from your own times and wanted to invalidate all votes except the ones that stick to your "correct" methodology :P

Besides, when the game has lots of votes, individual "flaws" don't really matter, because they get averaged out. And if it has few - when you remove them, it's back to the old "estimate" :P

And this time field really doesn't have to be "accurate" - the word "accurate" is meaningless in this case, since there isn't one "correct" time for given VN. That's why it's done by voting in the first place.

Don't be stricter than Kitamikado Misako ;)

And last point - "gamplay time tracker" was horrible and unusable for me - I tried it and uninstalled it almost instantly with big "NOPE!" :P
#194 by Ileca
2021-09-04 at 10:46
< report >Oh god I fucking hate GTT. Between having to remember every time to start the damn thing and... and having to remember to check if the damn thing detected your new game... I just noticed that it didn't record the one I am playing since three days now... NAISU GTT.

Anyway, the sane method is not to trust the overall score but check the specifics, like who voted, when, the comments, etc.
#195 by Ileca
2022-03-01 at 07:52
< report >I propose to replace the ignore mod feature with a private setting. A (manually set) private length vote would not be displayed, the same way ignored votes are. It's like the users themselves would put themselves on ignore (or be set by a mod in case of abuse). The point of this feature would be to allow users to collect all their lengths on vndb even if they know they don't contribute meaningfully to the VN length. To take myself as an example, I don't input lengths for JVN because I spend too much time on them. I see no point in weighing in the average with my x2+ lengths. However, I see a use in gathering all my lengths in one place instead of having only 1/4 of them.

Another proposal in top of the other one would be a complete/incomplete box. I see a use in showing lengths for incomplete VN or freemiums you didn't pay for the extra content. Even if someone only did one route, it's still data. With only incomplete lengths, the old length would be used but the number of votes link would appear.

Ideally, you would have:
public + included + complete
public + excluded + complete
public + excluded + incomplete
private + excluded + complete
private + excluded + incomplete
#196 by Yorhel
2022-03-21 at 10:30
< report >I like having more options for the length votes, but I'm not a fan of complicating the form much further as each checkbox is going to increase the barrier to submission. Or am I the only one who always spends far too long trying to figure out the exact implications whenever I see a checkbox? >.>

Some thoughts on simplifications:
- Add a fourth "Uncounted" option to the reading speed dropdown; Downside is that excluded length votes will not have a speed indication available, but it should be fairly intuitive and they can still show up in the listing. This can replace the mod ignore flag.
- Add a profile setting to make all length votes private?
#197 by Ileca
2022-03-21 at 11:36
< report >1/
What about a new drop down instead that gathers:
-public / public (complete)
-incomplete / public (incomplete)
There is no reason to care about complete/incomplete when it's private.

Or you could manage privacy through labels. Either through the same privacy column or a new one next to the existing one. I like this solution as it would be easy to set a label just to show lengths or use one of the existing ones.
As for incomplete, yes, your uncounted is ok but dirty. If you don't want a checkbox, it's better than nothing and mimic the existing mod feature (the reason why you proposed that :)).
If you don't use two columns for the privacy setting, let private lengths count by default, like votes, and only not count them when using the uncounted option. We don't need to know who is the voter to moderate.

On a side note, the ability to quickly edit lengths, speed and relation in /lengthvotes would be appreciated.
#198 by Yorhel
2022-03-21 at 12:38
< report >Ugh, labels. There's pretty much no integration between length voting and list management. Yes, that should change, but that's a fairly large project. :(

On a side note, the ability to quickly edit lengths, speed and relation in /lengthvotes would be appreciated.
Batch editing interfaces are a major pain in the ass to implement, so... unlikely.


You must be logged in to reply to this thread.