Offer: Translating MTLs descriptions for Cash!

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#1 by vninfohata
2021-09-08 at 14:42
< report >Hi. I'm Hata and I'm recently on the jop trip and learn a lot of Japanese and also how to translate Japanese. I would offer the vndb staff to retranslate old descriptions of games (mostly of the doujin variety) which have been criminally ruined by the MTL mafia in the past. The MTL mafia biggest offender and long time saboteur kivandopolos is my arch enemy and I long to see game descriptions being replaced and brushed up for more than 3 years now. I'm volunteering to translate them with the knowledge and research I can do, but obviously wouldn't do it for free. I'm proposing that you'd hire me or someone else who knows Japanese well and can translate as an actual position at vndb and pay them a fixed amount when fulfilling a predetermined quota.

We want to make the visual novel database better and more informative for new players and I'm sure there are several people who just want to see their favourite hidden gems being represented well here, but simply lack the skills to translate even if they already do understand the language on a functional level. But here is the kicker, translation is a paid profession when you aren't committing to something illegal so I would demand cash for my services. I hope that is a fair suggestion to make.

TLDR: I'm sick of the bad translated descriptions and misinformation that vndb willfully accepts for lack of a proper method to handle them so I'm proposing to hire capable individuals and recompensate them with money to make the vndb great again.

Also I simply wanna practice translation in context, but not commit to an entire visual novel project which may take me months to years to complete.

(not trolling btw)
#2 by Yorhel
2021-09-08 at 14:47
< report >Go start a patreon.
#3 by vninfohata
2021-09-08 at 14:51
< report >I take this as legitimation to be able to potentially make money off this. You really wouldn't mind?
#4 by Yorhel
2021-09-08 at 14:57
< report >No. I'm of the opinion that everyone who meaningfully contributes to VNDB deserves to be compensated for that. But I don't want to be in the position of deciding who gets paid and who doesn't - that's an invitation to drama - so letting individuals raise their own funds is a "fair" enough approach for me.

("Fair" in that compensation is more tied to marketing efforts than actual productivity or usefulness, but ugh, such is life)
#5 by zakamutt
2021-09-08 at 15:09
< report >Lmao if I actually got paid maybe I'd grind away a bit at this as well
#6 by vninfohata
2021-09-08 at 15:09
< report >Maybe we should give more incentives that fuel the willpower to want to edit the vndb. Like when mods curate edits they could rate in the background by how well done those edits are and you maybe can create some kind of point system. Rankings and maybe badges for veteran editors or forum flairs/colors whatever could go a long way in improving motivation.

I think the time of letting people edit the vndb driven by the lone desire itself to contribute are over. I don't know how long you want to keep this page with web1.0 design philosophies (no embeds of images, links getting autoshortened instead of showing where the hyperlink actually leads at first glance among others) but a genuine rehaul might be due one day. Both in functionality as well as in content the vndb is limiting itself for years now because it aims to be a database foremost and not a social network, but don't we have too many frequent users for it not to be?

Just rambling a bit.Last modified on 2021-09-08 at 15:11
#7 by Yorhel
2021-09-08 at 15:15
< report >Eh, your primary motivation for contributing to the database should always be to want to improve the database. I fear that any sort of points system will distort that motivation and is no doubt subject to gamifying the wrong behavior. Of course, fundraising is also subject to that, but at least it's somewhat democratic.

I see no reason to make vndb more "modern" in terms of social features. This isn't a business, I don't have to chase "user engagement" goals, and I don't think such features will improve the site in a meaningful way.
#8 by vninfohata
2021-09-08 at 15:18
< report >What about being able to compare user profiles? I'm sure some people would want to have a quick way to check their ratings with some of their friends. Maybe we just have a different philosophy to how to create an appeal to people. But that's a given since the VNDB is more "static" never changing content over let's say a review site what I am familiar working with.
#9 by poudink
2021-09-08 at 15:20
< report >People have been and continue to contribute to VNDB with no particular incentive other than simply contributing for years. That's how all wikis work. I don't understand why you think those days are over.
#10 by vninfohata
2021-09-08 at 15:25
< report >People still contribute to the vndb, no doubt but without seeing the actual statistics I believe the amount of edits done have steadily if not drastically decreased. I see lots of new games per month of releases absolutely no one cares for and will keep living on without any contributions made to them for months on end. Like for example this: link
#11 by vninfohata
2021-09-08 at 15:41
< report >Okay, apparently you can compare user profiles with VNStat. I never used that before so I didn't know. :v
#12 by Yorhel
2021-09-08 at 15:56
< report >Rather than the number of contributions decreasing, I think your expectations have instead increased. Half-assed entries and being slow on updates for many VNs has always been the norm. The only stats I have at hand are the ones from last year, I can run some more detailed stats later but I don't expect a significant change.

If you're arguing that we don't have enough contributors for the scope of the site, you may have a point. But then, I'd argue that that applies to pretty much every wiki on every topic; there's always more work to do, after all. If anything I'm amazed how we can have a database of this size, quality and scope on a relative niche topic. As for increasing the number of contributions, I suspect we'd be able to go a long way by making the process more friendly, both in terms of making it easier and making the inevitable reverts be less hurtful... I mean, this isn't the most welcoming community on the 'net. :/
#13 by lucumo
2021-09-08 at 16:34
< report >Hm, either someone got hacked or is high...

"Like when mods curate edits they could rate in the background by how well done those edits are..." Yeah, because moderators can perfectly judge how "well done" all the edits are.
"Both in functionality as well as in content the vndb is limiting itself for years now because it aims to be a database foremost and not a social network..." ...this coming from some newbie not even registered three years here.

Anyway, there are some things very right here but at the same time also some things rather wrong. Personally, I stopped editing general stuff after certain changes and only kept to VNs I personally care about. Though, after the staff failed to provide some guidelines, despite being directly asked, I stopped even correcting straight up wrong information about those even. So now I stick to Excel documents and just do it for myself basically. (This also has the advantage of not being limited.) The point is: Don't expect the database to be good, there are lots of VNs missing, lots more releases missing and lots of just wrong information which either will be or won't be corrected in the future. Keeping that in mind while using it for what it has is the best way to go.
#14 by jacopo
2021-09-08 at 16:37
< report >I, for one, am immensely grateful VNDB is not trying to be a social network. The old school style is very charming to me
#15 by poudink
2021-09-08 at 17:32
< report >We're getting into very subjective territory here and relatively speaking, I'm very much a newcomer to this site. However, I'm a big fan of the old school style of VNDB and I greatly appreciate many of its features. Compared to similar sites aimed at anime (like anilist, AniDB and MyAnimeList), I find VNDB has many features that I wish those would have, is more aesthetically pleasing and is easier to use.

As far as the social element goes, I'm totally fine with forums like we currently have. The current software is very basic though, lacking in features even when compared to some old school message board software like my favorite Acmlmboard. I don't think changing that should be a priority though, as obviously this is a database/wiki first and a forum second. Having forums at all already goes far beyond what wikis typically have (aka talk pages).

As far as the quality of the database's contents go, I certainly have some complaints. The main issue I have is that the guidelines are quite lacking, which has led to a great amount of inconsistencies in the database, such as the current situation with some episodic VNs having one entry per episode and others having one entry for all episodes. Another example would be how back when I joined and unofficial MTL was still completely banned, the guidelines did not mention that fact at all and I was quite confused about the deletion of multiple releases. I believe they still don't mention that MTL releases have to be reported to t16054 for flagging. There is simply too much ambiguity in the guidelines right now. I'm obviously not asking for anything as big and complex as Wikipedia's guidelines, but definitely something better than what there is right now. Whenever there's a question in t8242 that the guidelines can't answer, I think that's a sign that something has to be clarified.
#16 by vninfohata
2021-09-08 at 17:47
< report >This is devolving into a more meta discussion so I might finalize what I made this thread for. Yes it was some kind of troll post of a spontaneous idea I had but I have already heard from people such as Zakamutt and some other they would be interested in fixing some of the MTL'd descriptions if money were involved. In the wake of this I might indeed setup some kind of "VNDB fixing squad" where we might end up fixing lots of the misrepresented doujin game descriptions while collecting a bit of cash on the sidelines via smth like Patreon or Subscribestar. Look forward to that, though the conception might still take a while as I am really not sure how to actually set up this business idea properly. I'll sleep over it a few nights.

Now you can continue discussing flaws and advantages of the vndb. I definitely appreciate what this site is, but it is clearly flawed in some regards of the process.

Also I don't think VNDB is not a welcoming site. We just give people who are unfamiliar with the users here a bit of tougher love.Last modified on 2021-09-08 at 17:48
#17 by lucumo
2021-09-08 at 18:00
< report >@15: What "many features" has VNDB over AniDB? Personally, I think the latter is pretty much better in every regard. You also have a larger variety of layouts. I'm still using the one from way back then, when I registered (and features implemented way later still work with it). It completely uses the space of my screen, is made for desktops and doesn't presume I'm an eldery person with bad eyesight. Compare that to VNDB...
Also, due to being for videos, it has more possibilities like automating different things. There is a decent number of clients and other software available. There are tons of customization possibilities etc etc
Of course, it has some small lingering issues and more annoying ones which got introduced in the last few years as the website degenerated, unfortunately. Still, it's far ahead of the "competition" that is MAL, Anisearch and so on.
#18 by poudink
2021-09-08 at 18:13
< report >Actually, you may be right. I haven't messed with AniDB nearly as much as its competitors, since I got very quickly tired of the default layout.
#19 by Ileca
2021-09-08 at 20:02
< report >If that's the way it is, I decided to stop contributing until I am paid a fair salary, that is, more than Hata. I refuse to keep contributing if Hata is paid and I am not.

I also want a gold star and every letter of my name be in a different color.
#20 by butterflygrrl
2021-09-09 at 00:23
< report >i am paid in the love and appreciation of my fans
and the teeth-gnashing of my enemies
not that i do anything useful, but since when are usefulness and pay correlated?
#21 by historyeraser
2021-09-09 at 01:16
< report >God, what a shitty idea.
#22 by lucumo
2021-09-09 at 03:52
< report >@18: No clue what the current default layout is but try some different ones. Honestly, in terms of functionality, it completely blows everything else out of the water. And with all of the customization, you can also get rid of the "waifu" bs, for instance, which they added some time ago (and is part of the "degeneracy" that I mentioned).
#23 by Ninigi
2021-09-09 at 03:56
< report >This thread is a whack lol.
#24 by historyeraser
2021-09-09 at 03:57
< report >Hata should be banned for decreasing the IQ level of everyone reading this thread
#25 by zakashi
2021-09-09 at 04:05
< report >LOL, I wouldn't mind doing stuff for free while others are getting paid. When you get paid you start doing things as an obligation, I thought people edited on this as a hobby.