|#1 by lmceachern|
2021-09-20 at 01:51
|< report >Do you know if which country does Nekonyan come from?Last modified on 2021-09-20 at 01:55|
|#2 by periah250|
2021-09-20 at 18:39
|< report >Its German based.|
This is the ceo's name
|#3 by paragonias|
2021-09-20 at 19:12
|< report >Not sure why anyone would ever think it's American tbh.|
But yes, it's a German company.
Their HQ isn't too far from where I live actually lol.
|#4 by janpri|
2021-09-21 at 17:01
|< report >Wonder why does German company translate stuff to EnglishLast modified on 2021-09-21 at 17:01|
|#5 by vninfohata|
2021-09-21 at 17:02
|< report >Nekonyan is on paper a German company based in Osnabrück, basically it is run from Akerou's bathroom.Last modified on 2021-09-21 at 17:02|
|#6 by periah250|
2021-09-21 at 17:48
|< report >#4 because english is the most spoken language in the world. a ton of native speakers and then there are people all over the world who learned it as a second language.|
|#7 by kei-tr|
2021-09-21 at 20:55
|< report >No no, #4, that's the wrong question. Question is here: Wonder why does German company Americanizes their releases heavily, to the point of it feels like protagonist (and other characters as well) acts and talks like Americans (some people defines that in a translation a Japanese person acting and talking like an American person as "reads more naturally", but I couldn't comprehend how is that possible)? Also, Japan uses metric system, don't change that to imperial system arbitrarily! And for god's sake, even though translator forcibly tries to put on him one, protagonist absolutely doesn't wear a "I LOVE NY" t-shirt!|
I used to think they cater American readers this much because they seem to think every English reader in the world are from America and other English readers doesn't even exist but according to this American readers only about half of European readers. And you know what, even if you are American you might still not prefer heavily Americanized products, I am sure there are at least few people like that exist over there.
That's why I thought they are an American company too but it seems they are not even American company. Don't know if I should say lol or sigh.Last modified on 2021-09-22 at 01:55
|#8 by vninfohata|
2021-09-24 at 11:14
|< report >@7 So you rather have Germanized characters? I can't wait for Saki from Making Lovers to talk about Lederhosen, Bratwurst and making memes about the Berlin Airport.|
|#9 by antherus|
2021-09-24 at 14:37
|< report >A certain amount of localization is necessary. Yes, it can be done to excess, but fundamentally one has to expect a few changes at least.|
For instance, a joke told in Japanese might be absolutely hilarious to them. Translated directly to English, it would just have Westerners scratching their heads. This isn't because Westerners are stupid. It's simply the fact that while the joke flows perfectly in Japanese, it's stilted and awkward in Engilsh. While the joke probably kills over there, it's also dependent upon the reader to have a certain level of cultural knowledge that foreigners probably lack.
So localization comes in. This is where the translator tries to capture the SPIRIT of the original text (joke, in this instance). While it's not a word for word translation, it at least tries to get the intent across while making it relatable.
While I'm all for learning more about Japan, its language and its culture, sometimes people just want to be entertained. And that's okay.
|#10 by vninfohata|
2021-09-24 at 15:15
|< report >@9 I am extremely sure that the japanese jokes and puns that sometimes are used in eroge are more funny to the average westerner who is desperately trying to understand it than to the Japanese who encounters such puns ubiquitously since middle school.|
|#11 by antherus|
2021-09-24 at 15:50
|< report >Why are you extremely sure about that? What I'm describing isn't conjecture. It's a pretty well-known fact.|
While there might be some anecdotal evidence of what you describe, by and large much of the nuance of Japanese language is lost in translation, and vice versa. In fact, that's kinda why the expression exists in the first place.
My post stands on its own merits.
P.S. I think if someone was desperately trying to understand Japanese language and culture, they wouldn't be reading a localized version of a VN in the first place.Last modified on 2021-09-24 at 15:51
|#12 by vninfohata|
2021-09-24 at 16:34
|< report >@11 Those who tend to complain about these things tend to believe that via localized games they can experience Japanese culture and hence they are outraged by every single piece of "localization" in them.|
|#13 by antherus|
2021-09-24 at 19:02
|< report >Okay, I can agree with that.|
|#14 by nyarly|
2021-09-24 at 20:17
|< report >Well, kei-tr does have a point. It's best seen with the measurements. Most places such translated VNs would be read in, it's just that America, for whatever reasons, tries to cling to imperial. So, doing such conversions makes no sense... unless you desperately try to pander to Americans.|
|#15 by antherus|
2021-09-24 at 20:24
|< report >Yes, because God forbid they use a system that the reader will understand.|
It sounds like you're simply condemning Americans for still using Imperial, which says a lot more about you than it does about localization.
Personally, I'm fine with both, as while I am American, I'm quite familiar with metric as well. However, the same cannot be said for all readers. And given the fact that America accounts for a substantial portion of NekoNyan's target audience, the decision makes sense.
|#16 by kei-tr|
2021-09-25 at 17:38
|< report >|
given the fact that America accounts for a substantial portion of NekoNyan's target audience
Well, that's the point isn't it? If that substantial portion you speak of was more than half of all English readers than I could understand it. It still would piss me off, since original uses metric system, but at least I could understand it. But that's far from reality, according to link I provided above, North American readers are barely half of European readers, which barely makes them 1/3 of English readers and that's not even counting English readers in rest of the world. Plus, this assumes all American readers prefers heavily Americanized products, like Nekonyan provides.
You said "certain amount of localization is necessary" above. While I agree, in case of English it's very hard thing to do. Because Americans doesn't own the English language and they are much less than half of all English reading community. Which is why it's very hard to localize a not locally spoken language. Yes, you can target a specific country to localize anyway but that's gonna leave bad taste for rest of English readers and makes some of things hard to understand for them. Which, isn't point of localizations are make easier to understand these things for all English readers (in my case I can't understand imperial system for the life of me and I had to use a converter each time when I see such units)?
Then what they should do? Keep these things to minimum, only use when necessary. Which means use only when there are untranslatable lines or jokes etc. If you have to change something then target majority instead of minority, and don't convert metric system to imperial system, even more reason for this if you consider original uses metric system. Don't translate something easily translatable as "plain t-shirt" or "drab t-shirt" or "unstylish t-shirt" to "I LOVE NY t-shirt". Don't use swearing words almost like punctuation marks, American teenagers might be talking like that but it weirds me out because people doesn't talk like that here and it weirds me out much more because I know Japanese doesn't talk like that either.
Unfortunately Nekonyan usually goes way waaaay too overboard with these things.Last modified on 2021-09-25 at 18:07
|#17 by funnerific|
2021-09-25 at 18:09
|< report >God forbid you translate comedy with the intent of making the player laugh.|
|#18 by kei-tr|
2021-09-25 at 18:28
|< report >Making reader laugh and telling stories is author's job, not the translator's. Translator's job is, surprisingly, just translating. I want to read a product provided by author, not a rewritten product by some random dude just trying too hard to be funny. I can't even understand half of those jokes even though I am English reader because they target somebody else.|
P.S. please don't start with "learn Japanese!"Last modified on 2021-09-25 at 18:42
|#19 by cubky|
2021-09-25 at 18:36
|< report >I guess you are stuck with playing EOVNs then|
|#20 by ecchihieronymus|
2021-09-25 at 18:41
|< report >Nope, the translator's job is to convey the author's intent as closely as possible, while still creating a readable piece of writing. If the author wants the reader to laugh reading passage x, then the translator has to write a joke for that passage. Sometimes they're pretty close, sometimes not. Jokes are the hardest parts about translations, you won't always get everyone to laugh.|
|#21 by vninfohata|
2021-09-25 at 19:30
|< report >To make you understand it with simpler words. "Original has a joke" -> Translator has to come up with a similar joke that has the same feeling but is not the same thing word for word translated. Whether the joke hits its mark or not is neither the translator's nor the author's domain. Jokes hit different for different people due to different cultural and educational backgrounds and you cannot accomodate for all of them.|
The only thing that is important is that there is a joke told where a joke is supposed to be and that it doesn't break character necessarily. But even then, there is also the - to me - questionable practice of substituting a joke at another place in the text simply so the conversation has its joke quota fulfilled. That's all facets of translation theory, so read some books.
Sometimes though, breaking character is the whole point of a joke so it can work as one too.Last modified on 2021-09-25 at 19:32
|#22 by omikron|
2021-09-25 at 19:48
|< report >@18|
You don't like - don't read it. Simple.
As mentioned above - some things cannot be translated word for word because it wouldn't make any sense to those not speaking/understanding the Japanese language.
Therefore, a way has to be found to fill the gap in that section when it is translated. Ain't that so?
I for one am European, and prefer to have the translation being made in a way for me to understand it and not having question marks all over my head because it was translated word for word.
What else can be said?Last modified on 2021-09-25 at 19:49
|#23 by kei-tr|
2021-09-25 at 20:08
|< report >Ugh, enough, enough, I already regret what I wrote #18, that was just my personal perspective, don't gang up on me guys. I know what you guys trying to say, I read same things millions of times after all. But you guys are completely disregarding what I wrote at #16, which is my main point I am trying to get across. I already said its ok to use liberties when there are untranslatable jokes and lines. Problem is going way beyond that.Last modified on 2021-09-25 at 20:15|
|#24 by omikron|
2021-09-25 at 21:43
|< report >It wasn't my intention to sound harsh or to gang up on you. I guess, however, that you know that there are more than enough people out there who simply complain about so many things but keep on doing exactly what they complain about. It is like they want to keep on eg. reading stories that they dislike just to be able to complain about them. That kind of behaviour seems very sad to me. Not saying you are one of those, but it could easily be understood that way due to the large numbers of people doing just that. I hope you get what I mean.|
Everyone has a different taste, and that is good. If you feel that way about NekoNyan, that is totally fine. Others might feel differently, as do I.
Just don't try to turn a personal opinion into a general perspective, is all I'm trying to say.
|#25 by aresia|
2021-09-26 at 13:16
|< report >Forget about the joke problems, the main point of this thread is that this German-based publisher is not translating Japanese to English, but Japanese into American.|