Just why?

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#1 by flvbycjctnheheh
2021-11-17 at 02:18
< report >So this game has been split into four episodes on vndb, just like it has been released, with the first one being the lowest ranked, and the fourth one having a whooping rating above 8,5 and a very impressive review (as far as I remember). And now they were merged into one entry, which has inherited the terrible ratings of the first introductory episode, despite the fact that every other one is great. Just why? Phantom Trigger still has multiple volumes, the same as 9-Nine, there was literally no reason to merge this, at least not so late. Imagine merging 9-Nine with the first episode which has the lowest ratings. Or merging the top-rated MLA with ML Extra. It's just not something you should do so late after the initial release. Or at least you should have created a new entry, instead of merging the whole story with the lowest-rated introductory episode that basically serves as this series' Extra. Now everything who relies on ratings like me will think that this is series is trash not worth anyone's time, which isn't exactly the case.Last modified on 2021-11-21 at 07:27
#2 by Ezezin
2021-11-17 at 02:42
< report >Start reading from t2108.4153 until t2108.4373 (close to 220 posts about muv-luv)Last modified on 2021-11-17 at 02:44
#3 by flvbycjctnheheh
2021-11-17 at 07:44
< report >@2 I've read it now. So basically Photonflowers was split into many parts and Day After fused into one. Doesn't change the fact that it's ridiculous to do this so late when all entries have already received a bunch of votes and even reviews. It's even worse that the fused version already has a shit rating. The decision was made not based on what would be the best for potential readers, but just to follow old guidelines waaaaay too late. Heck, Photonflowers was released many years ago. In the end, it was a very strange decision and I don't agree with it, but who cares.

Let's just leave this post here, so that people knew that TDA isn't shit, only the first episode which was rated separately before the change. The TDA03 was rated almost as high as MLA.

And now that I checked it seems that the same thing happened to Chronicles. Despite the fact that they were separate entries for YEARS and have gotten thousands of votes. There's just no way to justify something like this. Now people will never learn that those vns are worth reading, but instead, they'll find worthless 2-hour-long side stories if they check the MLA page, lol.

It's one of the cases when "better never than too late".Last modified on 2021-11-17 at 10:40
#4 by Substance21
2021-11-17 at 11:17
< report >I agree. The votes should be refreshed atleast.

What's even more annoying is that it's done by people who didn't even read them.
#5 by Dailymonogatari
2021-11-17 at 18:12
< report >Why is the lowest-rated entry now being used to represent the entire series? If you going to delete the other entries, you should delete ALL OF THEM, and create a new page, instead of misleading people's votes. For reference, 00 was rated 7.31 and it is now used to represent the entire series, 03 was rate 8.96 and was deleted.
#6 by Altarius
2021-11-17 at 19:17
< report >Can't understand for what all these rantings. I vote 7 for a novel if I really liked it and, more importantly, care nothing for its rating.
You sound as if "too low rating" will scare away new readers, but you've already completed the novels. So whats your complain?
Also, haven't read muv-luv, because I am out of its target age, but KimiNozo was a real trash.
#7 by flvbycjctnheheh
2021-11-18 at 03:35
< report >@6 Obviously too low of a rating will scare away new readers. It's the whole point of ratings - to help people understand if a story is worth their time. There're some people who don't rely on ratings, but they are the minority. I myself never read anything below 7.5 in rating unless it's a prequel to something better. I haven't read The Day After yet, but it was on my wishlist because 03 had a high rating.

Also lol at "muv-luv's target age". A good story can be enjoyed by a person of any age, as long as they're old enough for 18+ content (though let's be honest, most boys start watching porn waaaay before eighteen). In terms of story MLA and your favorite Baldr Sky are very similar and have the same "target audience".Last modified on 2021-11-18 at 03:36
#8 by Altarius
2021-11-18 at 09:05
< report >@7 Not quite so. After kiminozo, I blacklisted Age, and especially these scenario writers. I am full of prejudices, yes, but I can't believe these guys can write some serious story after all absurdity and forced drama of kiminozo. Sorry.
And again, "too low rating" wont scare away readers. Just see at Muv-Luv. For your standards, it has the bottom-level rating, but still no one complains about it. If you are a fan of this series, you will give a try every other muv-luv novel, regardless of ratings and reviews. And if one has no personal opinion and is easily suggestible by scores from unknown (and most likely incompetent) people... This is just lamentable.Last modified on 2021-11-18 at 09:11
#9 by flvbycjctnheheh
2021-11-18 at 10:05
< report >@8 Have you missed "unless it's a prequel to something better' part? The whole point of ratings is for people to know beforehand how high is the chance that they will like the story. It's just mathematically true that the higher is the rating the higher is this chance for an average person. I would never read the original Muv-Luv if I didn't know that it's a prequel to Alternative which is literally the highest-rated game on vndb.

I loved MLA but I won't read any other game in the franchise unless it either has a rating above 7.5 or a highly rated sequel. Again, this is the whole point of this system. You should be pretty dumb to be unable to comprehend this. If 90% of people loved something then just mathematically there's a 90% chance that a person from the same target audience will love it as well. It's not about being swayed by the opinions of other people—it can happen only AFTER reading something, not before.

Unless you are mentally very different from others (most likely due to some psychological issues), then your taste would be close to that of other people. Well duh. This is why so many people use imdb, metacritic, and vndb isn't an exception. This site's value would be way less without the rating system.Last modified on 2021-11-18 at 10:11
#10 by cubky
2021-11-18 at 10:14
< report >
Unless you are mentally very different from others (most likely due to some psychological issues), then your taste would be close to that of other people.

lmao, glad I finally got to know the reason why a lot of games I hated are rated so high on vndb. Turns out I had a mental disorder all along, thanks!
#11 by flvbycjctnheheh
2021-11-18 at 10:22
< report >@10 If you hate 90% of what 90% love then it's very likely that there's something wrong with you. Obviously, there's a certain margin for the difference in tastes. Don't try to feel too special, dude. I've checked your ratings and while some of them are lower than normal, the vast majority of them align with the ratings. So this rule works even for you. Pretty much everything you've rated above 8 has the majority of votes above 8. Let's take something random like link. You literally rated it the same as most voters.

The same could be said about Altarius. With two exceptions, all games he loved were rated highly by the general public. One of those exceptions is Gore Screaming Show, which could probably tell you about his preferences. In general, though, bitter and depressed people rate everything lower than average. It's a psychological issue, so yeah. It doesn't mean that you're a psycho or should be in an asylum. But it's strange to pretend to be completely normal when you are full of hate and negative emotions to the point it even affects your perception of fiction.

Why would anyone waste their precious time on something other people dislike when he can waste it on something most others love? It just doesn't make sense. If most people love pizza but hate raw meat, you'd be stupid to try the latter instead of the former. You can't know before actually trying, but there are too many things to try to just go about it randomly. It's way wiser to rely on other people's experiences instead of thinking of yourself as "oh so special".Last modified on 2021-11-18 at 10:30
#12 by Ezezin
2021-11-18 at 10:41
< report >Sorry, I had to intervene after reading
mathematically true that the higher is the rating the higher is this chance for an average person.
So, would you read Shingeki no Kyojin: Wall Sina, Goodbye or Euphoria?
You are missing good visual novels just because the weren't "good enough" to other people like The Letter or Juniper's Knot.
You can't say that you don't like something before having a taste.

Another thing, I hate Muv-Luv Alternative and Umineko no Naku Koro ni, but loved Amairo Chocolata; but according to your "people's likes based on rating" it should be the inverse. This is why I started to not give game votes any importance.
I'm glad I gave Star Apprentice: Magical Murder Mystery a try, even if it had two 1 in votes, it was really good. A shame I couldn't play further because of system requirements being higher than my laptop.

If you would be just a little open-minded you can find hidden gems under all those negative votes. But you will never know if you don't try.Last modified on 2021-11-18 at 10:51
#13 by flvbycjctnheheh
2021-11-18 at 10:59
< report >@12 Nope, I won't read Euphoria. But have you noticed that most people voted 8 for it? I also don't care about missing good visual novels when I haven't read all of the best yet. I hope that you understand the meaning of "mathematically"? It's not my opinion, it's a fact. Just pure math. If you take an average person belonging to the target audience then overall ratings would be predictors of his likes and dislikes. If you have enough time to search for hidden gems among mediocre works, then be my guests. My time is more precious than this. I'd rather play/read/watch the best of the best and the only way to determine this is ratings. There are some highly-rated works that I didn't quite like (though none of them I ever hated, because it's impossible for most people to like an objectively bad work) and it's possible that there are some lowly rated works I would potentially like, but on average this is the right strategy. You can't beat math.

Anyway, just because you don't consider ratings important doesn't mean that everyone else should ignore them. You be you, but many people—if not most—decide if they should read something based on ratings. That's the whole point. Everyone is equal, so if you liked something but everyone else didn't then it's right to listen to them and not to you. And from this point of view, the alterations made to Muv-Luv related games are terrible.Last modified on 2021-11-18 at 11:03
#14 by Altarius
2021-11-18 at 11:07
< report >@11
Gore Screaming Show, which could probably tell you about his preferences
Actually, it is a romance novel. Maybe the most vanilla out of all BlackCyc vns.
And as Ezezin said, you cant know for sure whether some novel is good or just hyped, before you read it by yourself. So, maybe muv-luv is a really masterpiece franchise, but because of my personal experience with its writers I will never give it a try.
#15 by flvbycjctnheheh
2021-11-18 at 11:46
< report >@14 You can know if something is good or not (because guess what, it's determined by the majority of the target audience, not by you), but you can't know if you personally will like it. It's just a probability thing.
#16 by Ezezin
2021-11-18 at 11:53
< report >
It's not my opinion, it's a fact. Just pure math. If you take an average person belonging to the target audience then overall ratings would be predictors of his likes and dislikes.
It's not. It is impossible to calculate what people likes or not with numbers on any given group of study or society. Companies and other organizations already tried that lots of times and always failed.

If it where a fact, companies wouldn't spend thousands and thousands in marketing to make their product more appealing just to reduce the risk of loosing money (and the biggest ones also hires psychologists and specialists in social studies for this reason). This is why a high score it's just there to make a product look more attractive, not because it's good.

And I know this because I'm a IT student with marketing and organization courses. The first thing they teach us is that when dealing with people, probability and math doesn't help. People react with emotions and words, not with numbers or graphs.

Edit: Rant is over, now I'm good. I'll continue to create more Wikidata entries.Last modified on 2021-11-18 at 11:58
#17 by Substance21
2021-11-18 at 12:16
< report >This is pointless, the thing is that the scores are for TDA 00 and NOT for the Entirity of TDA. They should be refreshed or a new page entirely should be made instead Period

Bullshit like "oh but scores don't matter!" are irrelevant. This is a inconsistency in the database and it needs to be fixed.
#18 by flvbycjctnheheh
2021-11-18 at 12:18
< report >@16 Facepalm... I'm not here to teach you basic math, dude. Companies and organizations don't care about what people like, they care about what people BUY. Most people consider SAO as average at best, but it's popular. Most people consider Mushishi or Vivy as masterpieces but they aren't that popular. Popularity and likability aren't the same thing. But ratings are predictors of how much a person would like the work in question—it's not something you can argue against, it's reality.

A high score is about the quality of the work from the perspective of the consumers, not about its sales. Sorry, but I don't want to argue with a person who doesn't understand statistics. A marketing student who doesn't understand that ratings are about if people loved something and not about if they'll buy something? You are terrible at your job.

In fact, as an author who earns with his writing I can tell you that the quality of a story doesn't matter that much at the start, what matters to most people is your blurb and cover. Your idea, the way you describe it, and how good is the cover of your book give you most of the sales...at first. But the rating of your book is both amplifier and predictor of how many of those people will read your next book. And then there's the word of mouth—high-quality works get a fair number of new buyers just because of the good reviews and ratings. It's common sense that a "marketing guru" should understand.

In the end. If scores didn't matter, they wouldn't exist. IMDB wouldn't have this feature and the same goes for vndb. I visit this site to see ratings, first and foremost. And some random people decided to make them irrelevant for this particular visual novel.Last modified on 2021-11-18 at 12:28
#19 by Altarius
2021-11-18 at 12:54
< report >
I haven't read The Day After yet, but it was on my wishlist because 03 had a high rating
So, you need to endure the preceding novels in order to get to the *good* one. It is some sort of Age's tradition, isn't it?
And now the score is just a crappy 7.33, and not a majestic 8.5, so every normal man will just abandon the entire series because no one wants to read some low-rated scribbles. What a terrible situation.Last modified on 2021-11-18 at 12:55
#20 by flvbycjctnheheh
2021-11-18 at 12:59
< report >@19 Split any decent 50+ hours long story into many arcs and the first ones would be at most average rated. It's obvious. When it comes to storytelling, it's basically a rule that you'll use the first half of a book to prepare the ground for the grand finale. Except most books are way shorter than most top-tier visual novels. And yeah, I would have never added this to my wishlist without a high rating of the 03. In comparison, Phantom Trigger still has shit ratings even after many parts are released. It would lose nothing if someone suddenly decided to fuse all separate releases into one.

Your sarcasm is unneeded here. You see, there are people who DO care about ratings, me included. If you don't care then it shouldn't matter to you if the story still has high ratings that reflect its quality. You win nothing, but other people lose.Last modified on 2021-11-18 at 13:01
#21 by kiru
2021-11-18 at 14:52
< report >@20: You are forgetting, that it's not too rare for people not liking something to stop after a while and drop it. It's not too unlikely that the merged ratings are a lot more fair than you'd think.

Or what, you think a 50 hour novel has no ratings from people dropping it after 10 hours?
#22 by Aresia
2021-11-18 at 15:16
< report >Man, Little Buster is so long, but it's also such a slog that I never finished it to this day. Probably won't be anytime soon. But IF I have to give it a rating right now, maybe... 6, being generous. "But wait, it's a a very popular VN that everyone played and liked! Give it an 8 at least." Someone said. But dude, I don't like the beginning, it's mediocre for me. Maybe the climax will be good, I don't know, but it was still ruined for me, so there you go, 6. Dropped though.

Nevermind me, I'm just backing Mr. kiru here.
#23 by Substance21
2021-11-18 at 15:19
< report >@21 the ratings are not merged, the ratings only represent 00.Last modified on 2021-11-18 at 15:19
#24 by flvbycjctnheheh
2021-11-19 at 05:59
< report >@21 No, it's rather rare. I, for example, have never dropped a visual novel without finishing it. I'd argue that it's so rare that its impact is insignificant, but you're the one who should try to prove your point. There's only a small percentage of people who drop something that they've started, there're even studies about this fact. Most people are completionists, at least to some extent, and try to finish every game/show/book they started, even if they don't particularly like it.

In the end, as others have already said, those ratings represent only 00, and it's just a fact that they would be completely different if all entries were merged from the start... except they shouldn't have been ever merged in the first place because each part was released at a different time. It's literally the same as with Phantom Trigger. By your logic ratings for ML-Extra represent ML-Alternative, which is a ridiculous statement to make. Please turn on your brain for a second.

@22 You can give whatever rating you want. This is what ratings exist for. And reviews, for that matter. It doesn't change the fact that you'd be included in those 5-10% of people who dislike the work, while 90-95% still have liked it. I'd even argue that those from 5-10% are the same people who underrate pretty much everything and so they should be ignored by anyone who isn't like this. You have the right to have an opinion, but why would a potential reader assume that he'd agree with 10% of the people and not with 90% of the people? It's just mathematically idiotic. Any rational person would assume that his opinion would align with the majority.

@23 It seems that this "ratings mean nothing" bunch is too dumb to understand this simple logic. As expected from the people who just randomly decide what to read, or at least they think so. While still mostly playing the most popular and highly acclaimed titles without even realizing this, lol.Last modified on 2021-11-19 at 06:08
#25 by kurruchi
2021-11-20 at 08:57
< report >The scores should just be reset, all that merging of scores from 01-03 isn't something I've heard done on this website. Should've just been deleted and remade like the Photon releases