<insert title preference>

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#1 by Yorhel
2022-02-11 at 12:33
< report >People who can read Japanese have (rightfully) complained that they'd much rather see Japanese titles in Kana/Kanji rather than romanized, and likewise many people in the English communities have long wondered why the hell we don't display English titles when there's an English localization available. It took a while to materialize, but you can now set your title language preferences in your profile.

The details for this change have been discussed in t12465. This feature required a change in how we collect titles, so the visual novel edit form has been updated to allow for adding titles in multiple languages, both official and from fan-translations. Rather than having a "Title" field for the main display title and an optional "original title" field for the title in its original writing system, the updated form first takes the full official title in whatever writing system it has been published and then provides an additional field for the romanization if that title isn't using the Latin alphabet.

As a consequence of the above, it's not possible anymore to have two titles in the Latin alphabet that only differ in capitalization. This is a hack we sometimes used in order to force our own capitalization rules on Japanese titles when the official capitalization didn't seem to make much sense. I'm getting rid of that rule: when romanizing titles from other scripts, we obviously still use our own capitalization guidelines, but for official titles that are already in the Latin alphabet, we're now going to stick with whatever capitalization is used by the publisher - assuming they have a consistent and official capitalization, of course.

There's a few other gotcha's and limitations to keep in mind:
- Visual novel entries need to be updated with all titles first, so it may take a few days/weeks before your "show me English titles!" preference will really take effect.
- The language tags embedded in the HTML are not correctly updated when you change your language preferences, which may result in your browser rendering titles with incorrect fonts. I hope to fix this in the (near) future.
- Some visual novel listings have a filter based on the first character of a title, these filters don't work well if you've selected to display titles in a non-Latin alphabet. May get fixed at some point, once I figure out how.
- This feature currently only applies to visual novel entries; releases, staff, producers, characters and whatnot still use the old "Main title" / "original title" system. I hope to update those in the future as well.
- The default display title is the title associated with the language that the game has originally been written in. There are a few odd visual novels that have never been published their original language but only in their translated form, or where the translation was released before the original script. In the former case, we don't really know the official title, so we'll to have to assume it's the same as the localization. In the latter case, we'll have to accept that the main entry's title will be from a later, non-initial release. Neither is ideal, but such is life. Perhaps this can be fixed in the future, if we find a nice way to handle such cases.
- The new database schema will cause a lot of SQL queries to break. I'll provide a temporary workaround to keep them working, but queries that are still being used should be updated to refer to the new 'vn_titles' table or the 'vnt' view.
- This feature required large-ish changes to the code, I'm pretty sure there's a few bugs left. Let me know if something is broken.


(Also, sorry for the several minutes downtime. I thought I was waiting for a database backup to finish but I forgot to actually press enter)
#2 by NaioHoras
2022-02-11 at 13:18
< report >d2.15 so we officially abolized the capitalization rule, huh... Ninius will have a fun time reverting her edits.

some suggestions though, I think you should set the tooltip to show romanized title when we set original title as preference. sometime I forgot how to pronounce a Kanji so I want to see how it pronounced, and it will be easier to moderate VN title without opening the game page.

also, is it possible to have different fonts for each language scripts when they are the main title? it's hard to see the Japanese scripts in the current font.Last modified on 2022-02-11 at 13:23
#3 by Yorhel
2022-02-11 at 13:22
< report >
I think you should set the tooltip to show romanized title when we set original title as preference
That'll happen if you set the "Alternative title" to "Original title" and check the romanized option.
(Which was not available immediately after I uploaded the feature, but I fixed that soon after)

is it possible to have different fonts for each language scripts when they are the main title.
Yes, this will be possible once I fix the HTML language tags.
#4 by gambs
2022-02-11 at 13:23
< report >First of all, let me say thank you because this is a great feature.

As some feedback: rather than have preferred title language like this, why not extend it and allow users to set their preferred language (including for reading) in general? Then at some point allow for querying and filtering by that

As a Japanese reader, a huge flaw of VNDB is that all releases are grouped onto the same VN, and I can't filter votes for the release or language in which people read. What people think about the English translations of Cross†Channel is useless to me, and makes all of the votes effectively null. I would really prefer to just filter by "Japanese reader only" when displaying votes
#5 by Ezezin
2022-02-11 at 13:26
< report >
I'm getting rid of that rule: when romanizing titles from other scripts, we obviously still use our own capitalization guidelines, but for official titles that are already in the Latin alphabet, we're now going to stick with whatever capitalization is used by the publisher - assuming they have a consistent and official capitalization, of course.
Sorry, I don't quite understand. You mean that if the publisher uses all caps or no caps at all, we must write the titles like that too?
#6 by summer-fog
2022-02-11 at 13:28
< report >Cool, thanks.
#7 by Yorhel
2022-02-11 at 13:31
< report >
You mean that if the publisher uses all caps or no caps at all, we must write the titles like that too?
VN titles now follow the same rules as releases, producers, characters, etc. So yup.
#8 by Ezezin
2022-02-11 at 13:36
< report >
So yup.
ughhh, those edits I did... Well, thanks for the explanation (not that I like the rule change but I can live with that, It's not a big deal and I can see why you decided that.).
#9 by Ezezin
2022-02-11 at 13:49
< report >Another question, if a language has the same title as another one (let's say Spanish using the English title) do we fill that information (mostly copy/paste) or leave it blank?
#10 by Ninius
2022-02-11 at 13:59
< report >Oof. That's all I can say. Maximum oof.
#11 by Ezezin
2022-02-11 at 13:59
< report >And for Chinese titles, do we use simplified or traditional?
#12 by NaioHoras
2022-02-11 at 14:13
< report >
That'll happen if you set the "Alternative title" to "Original title" and check the romanized option.
it still shows you Japanese scipts when you do it on the front page and nothing at all when you hover the VN link from review page though. other places are fine.

one more thing,
when romanizing titles from other scripts, we obviously still use our own capitalization guidelines
I think we should make it clearer what guidelines we use on d5#1 since it's pretty important rule. actually, I think we should apply it for tags and traits as well since we are not pretty consistent with it link. I'm fine with Chicago/MLA/BB where prepositions aren't capitalized.

edit: weird typos and word arrangement -,-Last modified on 2022-02-11 at 14:50
#13 by Marc402
2022-02-11 at 14:16
< report >In some cases a single official release includes two visual novels. Aselia the Eternal includes both Eien no Aselia -The Spirit of Eternity Sword- and Eien no Aselia Expansion -The Spirit of Eternity Sword-, so should the official English title be same for both? It could cause confusion.

Also in some cases like The Devil on G-String the official title includes both english and romaji text (G-senjou no Maou - The Devil on G-String). Should the romaji part be included or excluded in such cases?
#14 by yuanshine
2022-02-11 at 14:28
< report >A lot of Chinese translations have multiple TL groups/releases, each with their own title. Which one should be marked as the "Unofficial title" and which ones should be aliases?
#15 by Mrkew
2022-02-11 at 14:28
< report >I'd like to say I most definitely do not want to see the alternative titles on the top of the VN entry. In the settings I only have "Title language Original language+romanized"
Yet the pages look like this link
#16 by Yorhel
2022-02-11 at 14:47
< report >
if a language has the same title as another one (let's say Spanish using the English title) do we fill that information (mostly copy/paste) or leave it blank?
Not sure about this one yet. I believe the most correct approach is to copy the titles for all languages the VN has been published in, but that can get ugly rather fast.

Oof.
Sorry :(

And for Chinese titles, do we use simplified or traditional?
Ugh, I really need to separate those two. Main challenge is how to update all the existing entries, I'll look into that later.

it still shows you Japanese scipts when you do it on the front page and nothing at all when you hover the VN link from review page though.
Fixed for review-related titles. Let me know if there's more places that need updating.
(The recent edits and edit histories intentionally ignore preferences for now)

should we make it clearer what guidelines we use on d5#1 since it's pretty important rule
Go ahead :)

In some cases a single official release includes two visual novels. Aselia the Eternal includes both Eien no Aselia -The Spirit of Eternity Sword- and Eien no Aselia Expansion -The Spirit of Eternity Sword-
Oof. I'd say don't put the English title on the fandisc. But this is a case I hadn't prepared for. :/

Also in some cases like The Devil on G-String the official title includes both english and romaji text (G-senjou no Maou - The Devil on G-String). Should the romaji part be included or excluded in such cases?
If the official sites and stores consistently include the romaji, I'd consider it part of the title.

A lot of Chinese translations have multiple TL groups/releases, each with their own title.
There's no good answer to this. I put "most commonly used" in the guidelines, but that is obviously up for debate. I might even go for "if there's no clear agreed upon unofficial title, don't add one at all".

I'd like to say I most definitely do not want to see the alternative titles on the top of the VN entry.
That space has always been used to display all titles and aliases, the preferences aren't intended to change that. Perhaps I'll make it easier to use CSS filters to change it, though.
#17 by Mrkew
2022-02-11 at 14:51
< report >
That space has always been used to display all titles and aliases
Not really, because there was a rule which prohibited release titles from being put in the alias field.
#18 by NaioHoras
2022-02-11 at 15:14
< report >v32831.5 text change detection feature is broken.Last modified on 2022-02-11 at 15:24
#19 by freesia
2022-02-11 at 15:15
< report >Thanks for the job first!

As a consequence of the above, it's not possible anymore to have two titles in the Latin alphabet that only differ in capitalization.
If I understand the new rule correctly, release titles such as link and link should be modified to lowercase, shouldn't they? Since there's no longer such rules that we should make any specific change about capitalization.

Changing those titles is such a huge bunch of work that we almost can't manually edit all of them. Is it possible to get them done by u1 using some scripts (hard, though, I think)?

EDIT: fixed some typo.Last modified on 2022-02-11 at 15:17
#20 by lucumo
2022-02-11 at 15:29
< report >So, any way to get rid of this? *click*
I don't care about titles that aren't in the original language.
#21 by NaioHoras
2022-02-11 at 15:40
< report >
Let me know if there's more places that need updating.
(The recent edits and edit histories intentionally ignore preferences for now)
tag link browser.

another one, I know that the original title is always on the top of the title list, but I think it's not enough and might be a bit confusing especially when you apply a language as your preference. (I visited a VN with Japanese title setting turnet on and confused when I see the only screenshots are in Korean. turns out the it was a Korean VN all along). so probably it's a good idea to add either an indicator or write it in the guidelines.Last modified on 2022-02-11 at 15:59
#22 by rampaa
2022-02-11 at 16:06
< report >What to do when there is more than one official title? See: r61639 and r57021
#23 by Ezezin
2022-02-11 at 16:35
< report >I edited Doki Doki Literature Club! according to the Steam release of Doki Doki Literature Club Plus!, but now that I think about it I'm not sure if I edited correctly.
Should those titles be named as "Doki Doki Literature Club Plus!" because those where their first official release in those languages, should I remove them and leave only the first official English release (adding the titles of other languages according to their unofficial translations), or should I leave them like that?

Basically, this is a case of a remake/remaster being officially available in those languages instead of a translation/adaptation of the original work.Last modified on 2022-02-11 at 16:38
#24 by NaioHoras
2022-02-11 at 16:39
< report >that's... certainly really ugly. I'm certainly in "don't copy if it the same as original" faction after seeing that.

either that or add the ability to expand/collapse the title list, somehow.Last modified on 2022-02-11 at 16:44
#25 by Ezezin
2022-02-11 at 16:40
< report >Ughhh... lots of questions about minor cases because there are not guidelines :(

For now I'll change them as "Doki Doki Literature Club Plus!" since that is their first official release in those languages, even if it is a remaster/remake and not the original work.Last modified on 2022-02-11 at 16:52