Outdated screenshots

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#1 by nekoinemo
2022-07-10 at 21:53
< report >What's the policy on screenshots to games that are in active development? And i don't mean append discs and stuff like this. The screenshots for this game are from early 1.x.x version, game is currently in 3.x.x (with beta of 4.x.x being distributed with it). A lot has changed - all of the art is redone, in the same style, but with lot more detail, UI is completely different, interaction during H is no longer menu based, there are multiple brand new systems that didn't exist in 1.x. Hell, game is generously making use of Live2D now.

Should screenshots be updated? And if so - how? Appended to the same entry? Replaced? Added to a new entry? What complicates matter is that while 1.x and 2.x are no longer sold (DMM and DLSite don't work that way - you can only download the latest version) - people online are still actively using the 1.9.2 and 2.5.2, the final revisions of respective versions, along with the current 3.x.x one.

Edit: apparently formatting didn't like the classic v + number to denote versionLast modified on 2022-07-11 at 14:08
#2 by beliar
2022-07-10 at 23:25
< report >I don't know anything about the game, but should it even be marked as 'complete' if it is being constantly updated? Usually, for WIP games, if there are changes that make the previous screens inaccurate, they should be replaced.

That said, is this even a WIP game, or was it completed, and then the dev decided to go further and make changes to the product? Maybe the game needs a few different release entries to correspond to the earliest complete build, and the latest build. Then different screens could be assigned to different entries. I'm just spitballing here.
#3 by phantomjs
2022-07-10 at 23:37
< report >#2
Not exactly relevant to the thread, but shouldn't this thread be inside the VNDB forums instead of the Visual Novel forums?
#4 by nekoinemo
2022-07-11 at 13:59
< report >The game was "completed" feature-wise in 1.0.0, but apparently dev is passionate and the game keeps basically printing money, so they keep adding new post-release content and overhauling it, all these years later. And my concern with just replacing old screenshots is that those breaking changes (like new H-interaction system or abundance of Live2D) are changes made in major versions: 1.x, 2.x, 3.x - and each of those are still in active circulation among fans, so replaced screenshots might not represent those editions of the game well
#5 by Mrkew
2022-07-11 at 15:03
< report >I'd say newer is always better. People can at least see what's different between their outdated version and the current one, so they are likely to update if they like what they see.
#6 by shinytentacool
2022-07-11 at 15:17
< report >I liked the original artwork better. I'd keep 5 old ones and add 5 new
#7 by beliar
2022-07-11 at 15:35
< report >I'd say that if a game has changed significantly, someone needs to create a new release entry for the latest version, listing the changes. In that case, some new screens can be attributed to that entry. I'll leave that task for someone who is more familiar with the game.
#8 by nekoinemo
2022-07-14 at 18:19
< report >By "entry" do you mean a new db entry, or a new "release" for this one? Hmm... There is already one for the Legacy (a collection of 1.x versions that are sold for nostalgia's sake), so it might be best to move current ones to there... But that's just for the original release, not translations (and that still completely excludes the 2.x versions)
#9 by beliar
2022-07-14 at 19:10
< report >I meant the release, but you are right. The Legacy entry is already here, however it's a collection that was released later than the initial release. If we consider the date 2015-10-27 to be of the initial release, mayhap yet another release for the latest version needs to be created. The notes claim the latest version was released in 2020/11/6. Mayhap this version needs its own release. After that you can add a few newer pics linking them to this release.
#10 by Ileca
2022-07-15 at 00:13
< report >This entry is a mess.

A new release should only be created if the base content received a significant update. Meaning that if the latest version is just bugfixes and minor additions here and there, it shouldn't be a new release.
You talk about major versions receiving "breaking changes". I think those are the ones that should be added, with a note explaining those "breaking changes". The last release... v3 (you use the raw bbcode to prevent a vndbid to be expanded into a link ;) ) should have a note about the latest update, like any other ongoing project, minus update of the date like it's considered as an extension of its base "breaking change" release.

In fact, I am not sure I see the point of keeping Legacy. It's a digital bundle of old versions. What's the point? To me, it's just a duplicate of r43805.

On the other hand, what's the difference between r44225 and r68732. It was made by the same guys. Shouldn't we consider them the same?
Edit: one is uncensored and the other is not. That's enough to keep them separated imo.

I deleted r72277 btw.

Edit: reading the go*gle doc, I am not surprised to see that my initial impression of Ray-K after reading the following on pixiv:
DON'T use my work as your SNS icon,
DON'T make and upload an video that use my artwork,
DON'T upload my art work to SNS.
I HATE to see that.
is that the guy is an asshole.Last modified on 2022-07-15 at 05:48
#11 by nekoinemo
2022-07-18 at 12:03
< report >For the legacy, i think it's because it's the version that is being sold. Kinda like most "AAA" VN's here have a separate "first print edition" entry despite it usually not having anything different to a regular edition, other than the box art.
#12 by xiandora
2022-07-28 at 08:05
< report >#10
While I haven't done a lot of research - mostly skimming the surface at some point - I got the idea that Ray-K is.. special, for lack of better words. He's hardly the first nor the last artist to lean more towards the extreme side when it comes to his work, and if I'm not thinking of a different artist I also think he was rather xenophobic - don't trust me on that one. Regardless, his workflow, focus and even his artwork also stands out from what I've seen.

iirc he has a bit of a cult following outside of his Teaching Feeling crowd, but it feels like most people know him for that title.

As for the original topic, I'd agree with the "Release+Screenshots attributed to said release" - emphasizing that a game needs a significant update before a new release is added. I don't know the full details of how much has changed since 1.X vs 3.X, but I know of a few features present when I played it which weren't there in the initial release, on top of a bunch I've heard of but haven't experienced.

I do not however know whether there's enough changes between 2.5.2 vs current release to warrant a new release, but if not then 2.5.2 would likely do for attributing screenshots.. but I'll leave that up to people that have actually played the newer versions to debate.
#13 by nomakewan
2022-08-09 at 10:11
< report >#10
You say that r44225 was made by the same guys, yet I have no idea who "Dekiru Translations" is and yet I'm the one who did the "official" release and was also the one who did all the unofficial patches between 1.22 and 1.9.2. If "Dekiru Translations" is actually what SpaceGodzilla went by back then, then giving them credit for anything beyond version 1.16 of TeachingFeeling is kinda silly since they didn't do anything.

As for the difference between the unofficial patch of 1.9.2 and the "official" release of 1.7.9, it's kind of right there in the title. They're different versions of the game, containing different eroscenes, different censorship, different menus, different features (1.7.9 "official" has a visual savegame system and a better backlog system for example), etc etc etc. We actually wanted to have 1.9.2 be the official version, but Ray-K refused to give us the assets we would've needed to support the new eroscenes so we had to stick with 1.7.9.

As for changes with version 3 over 2.5.2, there are some minor art changes, some random menu changes, and some eroscene variations that weren't there before. The upcoming version 4 is a much larger change, as it's moving to a 16:9 aspect ratio and updating a lot of the UI.

Personally I would only attribute screenshots to the version they're actually tied to. It doesn't make sense attributing screenshots from 1.16 to 1.9.2, or 1.7.9 to 2.5.2, or 2.5.2 to 3.0.19, or whatever. You know what version you're taking screenshots from, so attribute accordingly.Last modified on 2022-08-09 at 10:11


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