Heavy-handed bans (Gambs and others)

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#1 by freespeechgood
2022-09-19 at 12:52
< report >First I'm going to repost what I said in the senmomo thread at t16804.49:

Am I reading this thread correctly? Gambs unbanned a bunch of people messing with his community because he believes in free speech, you call gambs Stalin despite him doing that (??), and then you ban him from talking because...you love free speech so much?

I can't wrap my head around it as hard as I try. And MULTIPLE VNDB admins were on board with that???

VNDB admins are getting/have been way too trigger happy with bans. Things like "this person is managing a separate community in a way I don't like" or "this person has opinions that make others mad" or even "this guy is a manipulative asshole" should not earn people bans from being able to talk here, it just doesn't make any sense, and makes it seem like VNDB admins are weaponizing their admin powers (ironically what you just accused Gambs of doing).

I of course don't have the full list of banned users, but this seems like a trend to any casual observer. Do people like Moogy also need to be banned? Is he even still banned? 2014 Moogy and 2022 Moogy are different people entirely.

The VNDB forums can't be relevant in any way if all of the VN community figures are banned from talking here. Did you even try talking to Gambs before banning him mostly out of the blue for things he wasn't even doing in that thread? This seems like an arbitrary and emotional decision because he said something that made an admin mad, which I'm sure Gambs is extremely happy about. Everything else aside, you're playing exactly into his very manipulative hands.
#2 by asaki
2022-09-19 at 13:34
< report >Go kiss his rear end or something if you've been simping him for some reasons.

Seriously speaking, you may as well check their posts before made the conclusion, and no he's not the only figure who can lead the VN community. Also he didn't need to unbanned bunch of people if he didn't banned those bunch of people in the first place.

PS - Whether he's been manipulating VNDB mods or not, I'll leave what action that they should take to the mods later should we see his manipulation is in working.Last modified on 2022-09-19 at 13:44
#3 by freespeechgood
2022-09-19 at 13:45
< report >He *is* a VN community figure whether you like it or not. And he should be entitled to do his stuff the way he wants, especially on his own forum that he's managing

Honestly it just seems like many people are trying to bully him into changing his opinions on localization and things like that
#4 by asaki
2022-09-19 at 13:51
< report >Nekonyan *is* a legitimate VN localization company whether he like it or not. And they should be entitled to do their stuff the way they wants, except he banned several person beforehand just because they support Nekonyan and forcing his opinion on how Nekonyan is a terrorist and stuffs (Including false accusation on how they'll kill him).

Also no, nobody would bother to bully him in order to change his opinion on localization. So go back to Reddit and praise him until your finger is bleeding.Last modified on 2022-09-23 at 12:06
#5 by freespeechgood
2022-09-19 at 13:54
< report >This thread is about gambs and supposedly many others being banned from VNDB forums, what gambs thinks of NekoNyan is entirely irrelevant, and he should be allowed to have those opinions. Even if he's "forcing his opinions" on others somewhere else entirely, why should that lead to a VNDB forum ban?
#6 by qx
2022-09-19 at 13:55
< report >Hello gambs (?). So your evidence for the claim that "VNDB admins are getting/have been way too trigger happy with bans" is

1) Moogy (banned 2014)
2) gambs (banned 2022)

I'm no statistician, but that doesn't seem very convincing to me. Meanwhile the case against gambs seems much more convincing.

Regarding the ban itself, I don't really have an opinion. His absence is pleasant enough, his presence might have illuminated the stupidity of his own actions with more clarity. Both have their pros and cons I guess.
#7 by freespeechgood
2022-09-19 at 13:57
< report >I have no idea if VNDB admins are banning randomuser1234, I only know about the high profile bans, but they are concerning enough

Especially since both Gambs and Moogy know Japanese, they are often extremely valuable sources of info. The forums are obviously worse off without them as far as information about VNs goes
#8 by asaki
2022-09-19 at 14:05
< report >What should we do? Is that mean we can never know the info about new VNs whenever it has new info? Is that mean we can only rely on Google Translate (ie MTL) which usually provided bad translation? Is that mean Jisho is not very helpful? So what should we do now that we did get those two members who know Japanese very well getting banned? Oh no, VNDB will enter the era of darkness now that we don't have any members who know Japanese unbanned.Last modified on 2022-09-23 at 12:08
#9 by Yorhel
2022-09-19 at 14:07
< report >Not commenting on the Gambs ban for now, haven't updated myself on that yet (and to be honest, not particularly motivated to do so either, never liked his antics), but I can address some other points in this thread.

Is he even still banned? 2014 Moogy and 2022 Moogy are different people entirely.
Moogy hasn't been banned for quite a while now. His ban back then was totally justified, though.

The VNDB forums can't be relevant in any way if all of the VN community figures are banned from talking here.
Not sure how that matters. The VNDB forums are neither a free speech area (I hate those), nor even really a central hub for VN community discussions. It's primarily a place to discuss information about VNs - to supplement the database.
#10 by hubb2001
2022-09-19 at 14:12
< report >So is anyone going to point out the account was made directly after the ban, and given the name is probably gambs himself trying to stir up drama over his ban? There are rules for ban evasion aren't there?
#11 by freespeechgood
2022-09-19 at 14:17
< report >Thank you for the response Yorhel.

As for Gambs, all he was doing was talking about a VN's translation, and in typical Gambs fashion doing it in a way that made people irrationally angry. Also the mod who banned Gambs made it sound like they were doing it to defend free speech, which is really puzzling and now I am getting mixed signals

Honestly it seemed like Gambs got banned for stuff he wasn't even doing here
#12 by yunari-ah419
2022-09-19 at 14:17
< report >Agree with #10, gambs and subtlety are antonyms.
#13 by freespeechgood
2022-09-19 at 14:19
< report >I want to point out that #6 was made directly before the ban and is almost certainly a hubb2001 alt, trying to stir up drama to get Gambs banned
#14 by hubb2001
2022-09-19 at 14:29
< report >Yup, that posting pattern is 100% gambs, glad to see he still hasn't changed after all these years. Whataboutism the entire way.
#15 by asaki
2022-09-19 at 14:29
< report >*sigh* Finally show up your true color, eh? Well whatever.
#16 by npzmzfg
2022-09-19 at 14:29
< report >Why is it so important that gambs has the ability to post on VNDB? What good would come of it?

It seem to me that his chief contributions were the Sakura no Uta translation project and trolling. But that translation project failed and now trolling seems to his primary goal, here and elsewhere.
#17 by freespeechgood
2022-09-19 at 14:39
< report >He just, by being Gambs, weaseled out a ton of info about a current fan TL project that people had been suspicious of. No one but Gambs was able to do it, and on the VNDB forums he was able to get even more info out of the translators. His value was being proved in the very thread that got him banned
#18 by hubb2001
2022-09-19 at 14:45
< report >He just, by being gambs and using his platform to try and spread lies and harass people, forcing people to try and run damage control. No one but gambs was able to do it because other people have morals and empathy. His value is proven to be negative every interaction he has with the community.

Admit it man, you're just mad someone is restricting your ability to spread harassment and lies places. Just like how you got mad when I banned you off discords I moderate so you sent your followers after me to harass me. You then try and spin it in such a way that you were always the good guy, even though literally anyone who looks at the full interactions you have with people being reasonable proves that you can't be reasoned with.
#19 by asaki
2022-09-19 at 14:51
< report >Now that we have enough fun and this thread is already provided enough of what the 'new user' want (Besides the satisfying answer for him obviously), perhaps the mod should take some action. Like, locking the thread if I may suggest something.
#20 by HataVNI
2022-09-19 at 15:28
< report >I love the attention, but I would not ever want the attention that gambs procured for himself. I just gain my attention by doing cool things now. It is much better and sanity-saving than trying to be the boogieman who is always trying to be right.
#21 by lexer
2022-09-19 at 16:20
< report >
But that translation project failed and now trolling seems to his primary goal, here and elsewhere.

can you point to vndb posts where he has been trolling recently ? Looking at his post history I only see him participating in earnest and nothing wrong.

As far as I see he is only getting banned because some people hate him and his antics in other places. If that's enough to warrant a ban in this place then so be it, but I personally disagree
#22 by qx
2022-09-19 at 16:25
< report >#13 No, gambs (?), I'm not that person (I don't know who that is). Another instance of you making up dumb accusations based on nothing. If your posts in this thread are meant nonironically you must suffer under severe cognitive dissonance, given the extreme censorship you instigate on your own subreddit.
#23 by dubstepkazoo
2022-09-19 at 21:40
< report >
He just, by being Gambs, weaseled out a ton of info about a current fan TL project that people had been suspicious of. No one but Gambs was able to do it

Hi, I'm the leader of that TL project. You're vastly overselling Gambs's uniqueness; anybody could've gotten me to talk about that project. All they had to do was message me to the effect of, "Hey, I see you're the leader of the Senmomo project, but I have some doubts about it. Could you please address issues A, B, C, and D?" This is something that anybody with a keyboard is capable of. Whenever anyone comes to me with sincere concerns, I answer them up-front. People just don't talk to me about this very often.

And his Gambsness in those interactions did not help him. Even if he hadn't admitted to it later, I knew from the beginning that his concerns weren't sincere; as Hubb noted, if it weren't for the fact that he publicly slandered and harassed me in the capacity of the person with sole administrative authority over the largest VN community on the internet, I probably wouldn't have responded to him. I made that post reluctantly, and I agonized over whether to go through with posting it, when I wish I could've talked about this subject with the assurance I was engaging with a good-faith actor who genuinely wanted to see the issue resolved one way or another.

A little common decency goes a long way, but Gambs's language is so inflammatory and emotionally-charged that it turns people against him before they even get to the substance of what he's saying. Of course, that substance usually just makes things even worse.

I have my suspicions that you're a Gambs alt, freespeechgood, but even if you're not, Gambs? Are you reading this? I encourage you to look back at the major threads that have been about you. Your mass unbanning thread from a few days ago. Tauros's resignation thread. Various comment chains in which you display your hatred of Nekonyan. Actually read the points other people made that brought up concrete, specific actions or patterns of actions that you have taken. You deftly avoided commenting on their concerns every time, just like you avoided everything I said yesterday; this time, think about them. Think about why so many people are saying the same things. And think about what you can do to be better.
#24 by moyang
2022-09-19 at 22:05
< report >Free speech doesn't mean you can say anything without consequences; and he had his own.
#25 by AmanoKaze
2022-09-19 at 23:40
< report >Gambs? Community figure head? What in the hell did you smoke to came up with that?
Oh right it's just gambs altLast modified on 2022-09-19 at 23:40