Committee of Zero translation is censored

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#1 by neetgod
2022-12-04 at 14:11
< report >I noticed this while reading about their translation.
Here is what they said on their website. Note how if you go to the website now you wont find the part that says :
"However, this absurdity doesn’t quite ring home as well with an English audience—we’ve had pregnant men officially recognized as such ever since 2002, 6–7 years before the game takes place."

link to the archive of the original version: link
link to the archive of the edited version: link

"Let’s start off with our first change, the Manchild incident. In this case, a man has his stomach torn open, has a fetus stuffed inside, and then is stitched back together. In the original Japanese, this is rendered as just that, 妊娠男, which literally means “pregnant man.” However, this absurdity doesn’t quite ring home as well with an English audience—we’ve had pregnant men officially recognized as such ever since 2002, 6–7 years before the game takes place. The other goal that this name seeks to accomplish is that it turns this horrifying, grisly murder into a show of absurdity, with the victims being reduced to simply a reductive, silly description—one that would surely humiliate the male victim had they somehow lived. We then came up with two alternatives: “Mpreg,” and “Manchild,” but ultimately, “Manchild” won over as the one that covered the most bases. After all, what @channeler wouldn’t be familiar with that insult? This insult (made up of “man” and “child” representing the two victims) is also quite often used against university students, which is what the male victim was."

I just wanted to let people know because i know alot of people care about localization and stuff like that.

(MOD EDIT: unlinking your board as you can subscribe to a thread without doing that)Last modified on 2023-01-30 at 22:23
#2 by sehaze
2022-12-04 at 14:18
< report >How is that censorship???
#3 by Marc402
2022-12-04 at 14:39
< report >This was already noticed almost two months ago, I'm looking forward to the fan patch that unfucks the CoZ patch that unfucks the official TL orz
#4 by paragonias
2022-12-04 at 14:40
< report >>"neetgod" gets triggered and cries "censorship" over seeing the word "manchild"
>account created today, just to start this thread

Also, grow up.
#5 by poyayaaan69
2022-12-04 at 14:47
< report >lol "officially" as if @chan would accept that. Clear as day its because of their political views. Welp they're free to translate however they want but I just won't be reading it.

Also what about the series term consistency they care so much about? It certainly was called pregnant man in chaos child. But well I guess they would have to go back and change that too lmao.
#6 by merlin1710
2022-12-04 at 15:36
< report >Thanks for the heads up!
This is retarded, I'm not touching this visual novel or their patch now.
I'm glad I didn't buy C;H during the last steam sale, I dodged a bullet.
#7 by enorovan
2022-12-04 at 18:57
< report >I love how you're making it politicized yourselves when it's uh really not that deep. Also just to see your argument collapse, our translation contains r-bombs and some sussy jokes so it's just funny to see that you think we're censoring the game after also technically reestablishing a slur in ROBOTICS;NOTES ELITE for accuracy's sake.

Also since you talk about censorship I think it's quite funny to put that on us when we're literally uncensoring the game to put it back to X360 standards. And as mentioned with R;NE, the official localizations tend to silently erase things that could be considered bad taste. Not us. Actually that's how R;NE got a Teen rating.

We just had to change some of the other cases names because they meant nothing in English, and felt like doing a pass over all of them, freshening the terminology and making it self consistent.

And also if you actually cared you'd know the names have been propagated to the C;C patch for months at this point.

Lastly, if that line was removed iirc it's because the person who wrote the post didn't really get edited over, and it got removed as it wasn't really an argument that mattered in our choice.

So yeah all in all you're really overreacting and putting words into our mouths while also acting very triggered. I think it's pretty funny what's happening when, yeah, we are actively uncensoring these games. R;NE had slurs, sexual and sexist stuff cut from the original TL? We added it back. NoAH had 11 scripts censored, losing almost a thousand lines and all the assets that come with them? We're adding them back. Now you may disagree with our translation style—which is one where we try to strike a middle ground between fans who let everything in romaji and pros who overlocalize sometimes—and that's fine. Just not worth overreacting over.

Next time please do your DD, though.

EDIT: Gonna specify that the names needed changing because the official ones coming from C;C weren't made with NoAH, C;HLCC, C;CLCC and Memoirs of a Certain Wrong-sider in mind, the latter two doing additional puns on the C;C cases almost no one knows about.Last modified on 2022-12-04 at 19:05
#8 by periah250
2022-12-04 at 20:48
< report >this is censorship? its just a name difference. manchild, pregnant man, either would fit the murder case.
#9 by poyayaaan69
2022-12-05 at 06:11
< report >#7 seems to me they edited it cuz they realized the new tl completely took out the concept of death lol. Also the fact that mpreg or whatever was even considered is a joke.

You say its not that deep but i sincerely doubt anyone's stupid enough to believe that. The other tls are *fine*, even. Its just this one thats downright stupid. Even if they went with "unbirthed" or smth it would be somewhat fine. But its clear you just wanna push ur worldview and call anyone who disagrees a manchild lmao.

Doesn't matter what ur adding back if you just wanna push crazy stuff like "the internet was accepting of trans ppl in 2009" like lmao doesn't take a genius to see thats a reach.
#10 by enorovan
2022-12-05 at 06:52
< report >Throughout this thread you've been the only one pushing your worldview, so that's a kinda odd.

Also you're saying this is basically a conspiracy and again putting words into our mouths.

You also simply didn't address half of the points that clearly show we don't have any scaaary secret endgoals so yeah, seems pretty dishonest and broken-recordy tbh. Again, it's fine not to like the changes, it's not to grasp at straws. I was there to see the reasoning in the channels, you were not.
#11 by poyayaaan69
2022-12-05 at 10:34
< report >I actually did tho. Feelins mutual lol

Do enlighten me to this reasoning btw cuz the website only shows a lack of it
#12 by neetgod
2022-12-05 at 10:35
< report >#10
throughout this thread you've been the only one pushing your worldview, so that's a kinda odd.
You are the only one that has done that.

Also you're saying this is basically a conspiracy and again putting words into our mouths.
Once again projecting. You have an agenda and it was pointed out.
seems pretty dishonest and broken-recordy tbh.
Projecting once again.
Again, it's fine not to like the changes, it's not to grasp at straws. I was there to see the reasoning in the channels, you were not.
You were not there and it was not progressive.Last modified on 2022-12-05 at 10:41
#13 by enorovan
2022-12-05 at 15:03
< report >My only agenda here was to see how nonsensical you were going to get and since you have fallen to "no u" and making up shit/denying verifiable fact, I think I'll just leave it up to others intelligence to see you're acting triggered on baseless stuff.

It's particularly funny when I know we've handled the TL in the most unpoliticized/unsugarcoaty way possible, not that saying that will make the vocal 1% of nolifers that need strawmen to breathe until they find a new one related to a game they also know jack about, will change their opinions.Last modified on 2022-12-05 at 15:05
#14 by chrisglink
2023-01-27 at 03:46
< report >Hello! I actually wrote the post in which we explained our reasoning behind changing the case names.

We have a variety of other reasons as to why we changed the names, and in regards to Manchild/Pregnant Man specifically, only one of the reasons wasn't included in the initial draft, i.e., the name's status as a pun. This is one of the most important reasons behind why it was changed. As for why it wasn't included... well, it's as simple as I just forgot. It's a silly reason, but it's the truth—it was a long post, so it just got lost in the process.

So no, the "pregnant men not being that absurd to an English audience" was never our primary reasoning—it was always intended to be a supporting point. If it were just that point alone, we would not have changed the name at all—it wouldn't even be the only name we didn't change.

After we found that the sub-point was distracting from the primary reasoning behind the change, we edited it out of the post, and let the other points speak for themselves. That, and I actually misread the information surrounding the first officially recognized pregnant man, Thomas Beatie; I put in the post that we have "recognized pregnant men as such ever since 2002," but that was actually when Beatie received his gender reassignment surgery, not when he gave birth. That was in 2008.

This is why there are two drafts of the post—it is not because we're backpedalling or trying to disguise an agenda.

With that being said, I feel like you and a few others might be experiencing a bit of tunnel vision, as our goal with these name changes was, quite literally, to make them more offensive, because that's what the Japanese is. The SciADV series is home to plenty of offensive content—content we have quite literally restored after it was censored or not translated properly in previous entries.

So no, we're not censoring anything. Quite the opposite. But if you're so unbelievably transphobic that you ignore all other forms of reason the moment you see an inkling of support for trans people, we don't want you using our patch anyway.

Hope this was helpful.
#15 by rampaa
2023-01-27 at 15:26
< report >
the name's status as a pun. This is one of the most important reasons behind why it was changed
Yet it seems so flimsy. Let's have a look at it:

But beyond the literal meaning, it’s also a pun.
Citation needed.

妊娠 (“ninshin”) is the Japanese word for pregnancy, and two words can be found within that: “nin” and “shi.”
This is blatantly false. Pretty sure the two "words" that can be found in ninshin are nin and shin. Show me where 娠 is read as shi as opposed to shin, pretty please.

On their own, these words can mean person (人), and death (死) respectively. If you shuffle those two characters around, you get 死人 (“shinin”), the Japanese word for corpse
You dropped a sound when it inconvenienced your argument, cherry-picked the spellings you wanted and shuffled them to show that there's somehow a double-meaning in place. Now please show me something of substance that actually shows this is the intended effect and not some mental gymnastics on your part.

In other words, the Japanese title is both saying is “pregnant man” and “male corpse.” The literal translation “Pregnant Man” simply fails to convey the existence of a double-meaning.
Even if there really is a double-meaning (which I'm not convinced of) why would manchild fare better against the literal translation in this case? It does not resemble either of those meanings, at all.

No matter what we put, we needed to make sure it conveyed that same tone; a literal description simply wouldn’t cut it.
In your mind, does manchild convey the same connotation or the meaning? A literal translation would at least actually capture the obvious trait of the said victim (e.g. "a man has his stomach torn open, has a fetus stuffed inside, and then is stitched back together").Last modified on 2023-01-27 at 16:00
#16 by chrisglink
2023-01-27 at 20:07
< report >Dropping one sound that can be dropped/isn't very stressed in casual speech is more than reasonable. I've been present in the community for a long time, and have seen multiple readers come to the conclusion that it's shuffled around--and this was far before name discussions were on the table. Me personally, I had it pointed out to me rather than me realizing it, but I was new to JP back when I first read Noah 3ish years ago. Saying it's blatantly false isn't quite fair in my eyes. A stretch? Maybe, but I don't personally think so.

The rest of your post I can answer by simply saying--we believe it is trying to accomplish something different than what Pregnant Man achieves. The entirety of the post talks about how important Chaos;'s exploration of internet culture and the desensitization of those who refuse to remind themselves that these are real people and real murders. Even if these themes weren't obvious, Memoirs, an LN for Chaos;Child, states what I just said about desensitization almost verbatim.

If the other case names were very plain descriptions of the murders with no joke or offensive content? Then the name would not have been changed. But it is *trying* to offend--to reduce these real people to mere objects of ridicule and laughter. Translation here should be trying to render this, and if going literal--i.e., just describing the case--does not carry across that feeling, it shouldn't be translated literally.

You're more than able to disagree with the choice we made, but this wasn't a change we made just because we felt like it'd be funny or more culturally sensitive or something. It was changed to better reflect the themes of the game.Last modified on 2023-01-27 at 22:24
#17 by ilovegambs
2023-02-07 at 17:07
< report >like multiple have said including myself, avoid the translation unless you'd want to support a cult and risk brain damage. Serious brain damage.
#18 by Jazz957
2023-02-07 at 17:12
< report >I wouldn't take someone named "ilovegambs" seriously.
#19 by Ileca
2023-02-07 at 17:23
< report >It's the latest crusade by that fuckhead on reddit. (1) (2) So much work to be hated by the users of his own sub. When you think it can't be worse, he always finds a way lol.Last modified on 2023-02-07 at 17:26
#20 by vaclio
2023-02-07 at 17:23
< report >#17 Sure whatever you say gambs
#21 by asaki
2023-02-07 at 18:02
< report >#17 Well I didn't mind to support a cult as long as it didn't bring much harm to the world, and whatever serious brain damage that I got from reading the CoZ translation is surely won't be as bad as when I read the drama about this on Reddit. That said, thanks for the warning and have fun act as someone with serious brain damage.
#22 by Draconyan
2023-02-07 at 22:17
< report >@16: Did readers really think of ninshin as a pun on nin and "shi"(?)?? Even if they differ by just one mora, the words are still different enough that I can't think of it possibly being a pun, not even by a stretch. It's not even a case of "casual speech". Not to mention, even the "nin" (妊) part is written differently from the word for "person" (人).
#23 by nemesis2005
2023-02-08 at 03:11
< report >While I don't particularly care about the patch either way as I read in Japanese, it's obvious that the team working on this have a poor grasp of the language if they really think that it's a pun.
Dropping one sound that can be dropped/isn't very stressed in casual speech is more than reasonable.
WTF does that even mean? You think you can just drop random ん in casual speech, lol?
Try removing the ん and changing: 女房が妊娠しました to 女房がにしした and see if anyone understands you.

Also, 妊娠男 is proper Japanese while 死人男 is very unnatural Japanese. If it was a かな pun, it would be written in kana to emphasize it, and kanji pun doesn't make any sense as those characters are nowhere near similar. So yes, it is blatantly false. You are asking for the devil's proof. The onus is on the claimer to prove that something exist or we'd all be believing in unicorns.Last modified on 2023-02-08 at 03:13
#24 by JayDee
2023-02-08 at 04:01
< report >I didn't read TOO much into this stuff. So in summary, both the original TL (Inc using cut version) and the CoZ TL is bad?? This sorta sucks...
#25 by JackDBS
2023-02-08 at 04:02
< report >Weebs when one word of the translation is different from the "literal" translation (machine translation)

It's a fine localization. Nothing was changed. It's not "censorship".