| #1 by Yorhel 2023-01-31 at 10:30 | < report >This is one of those topics that keep coming up, so here's me sharing a few idle thoughts. There's two goals: - Better VN <-> external media relations; i.e. list which games/novels/manga/anime etc are related to a VN and how they relate. We already kind of have this for anime relations, but that's still pretty incomplete. - Better VN <-> VN relations. The current implementation requires editing individual VN entries and that doesn't provide a very clear view of the overall picture. Common pitfalls here include edit histories polluted with Multi's reverse relation edits and people adding indirect relations because the listing on the VN page looks incomplete. Related posts: t14405, t12755.86 and I'm sure there's a lot more I forgot to note down. There's a solution floating in my head that, if we can work this out properly, should achieve both goals. The solution is two-fold: 1. Add a seperate database entry type for "external media" with just the following fields: - Title (how many titles are we bothering with? full internationalization as we have for VN/releases or just stick with a single generic "display title"?) - Media type: anime (/cartoon?) / game / novel / light novel / manga (/ manhwa/comic?) / live-action. - Links to other databases; lots of possibilities here, can always be extended later on. - Further information - if we want - should be fetched from other databases. 2. Add a separate database entry type for relation graphs. Yes, this means getting rid of the "related visual novels" listing in the VN edit form. Instead we'll have a separate page where you can list all VNs that are related to each other and also link to external media entries in a single form. This has the advantage of (hopefully) giving a better overview while editing and would allow for specifying relations between the external media as well. There's a challenge in implementing (2) in a way that isn't a ridiculous mess for large graphs, but it might be doable. |
| #2 by ff80c38 2023-01-31 at 11:42 | < report >I like the general idea of adding "external media" as their own entries/pages and "linking" to them. That way it's possible to add specific VN-related information to external media that's just not possible to do with only links to external services (or maybe cluttering VN release notes/descriptions with text that definitely does not belong there). That approach kind of reminds me how VGMdb just recently updated the functionality of product pages. They only listed the album releases related to that game/anime/etc. but now staff information can also be added among other tidbits. Speaking of which, they have dedicated "franchise/series" entries on top of product entries, which would correspond to our VN relations. Is it useful to include something like that for VNDB? That is, not only linking VNs together by always manually connecting two of them but assigning them to the same series, franchise, universe or whatever we have. For example, Steins;Gate would be assigned to the [Steins;Gate] series page and also the [Science Adventure] franchise page. This has the benefit that there is always a connection from S;G to any other VN in the same series and franchise which hopefully reduces edit wars. Not so great is that this connection is different to "sequel/prequel/interquel/same setting/shares characters" and might lose that information. Not sure how we best parse these relations except doing it manually between VNs and creating "hubs" for linking if it becomes too large or important not to add. It's just an idea and certainly not perfect but I do like some parts of it. For example one could group VNs graphically sort of like Venn diagrams based on external media/series/franchise/etc which I imagine could look nice for a low number of nodes and groups. |
| #3 by sakurakoi 2023-01-31 at 12:01 | < report > ridiculous mess for large graphs It's not a large graph if it ain't messy! I'm speaking from my recent Rimworld modding experience: Even the modded research tree view was one huge mess and the nodes had far more simple relations (many technologies rarely require two other, at most).Seriously though, for #1, we got the 'Links' field semi-recently to pull data from other sites which can be expanded on and shifted to the 'Related Anime' field (which should be renamed for 'Related Media'. To allow for more human interaction, until referencing the other dbs is completed and then just in case, we could allow dummy pages on here which at least tell 'related novel/non-vn game/manga/media exists' and what they are called+release date. It's also always worth noting what is actually the source material and what the adaption. In regards to #2, those multiverses do indeed need a page one can modify directly and apply filters to when looking at it. Like listing only direct prequels, sequels w/ and w/o fandiscs, only shared characters as well as sorting by release date would be the most used filters, I'd guess. Alternative Versions would meanwhile be next to their earlier version. One could also only view 'unofficial'-ly related VNs of whatever universe. |
| #4 by vario 2023-01-31 at 14:04 | < report >I also like the idea of having separate entries for external media. I'd add that it might be useful to keep the staff section for them as well since sometimes VN writers/artists/etc end up working on soshage, anime, and other adaptations. I find this kind of information useful personally. |
| #5 by Mrkew 2023-01-31 at 14:24 | < report >External media having their own entries is the one thing that should never happen. It's vndb, not everythingdb. |
| #6 by Yorhel 2023-01-31 at 14:48 | < report > dedicated "franchise/series" entries on top of product entries, which would correspond to our VN relations Yeah, something I've considered for a loooong time but never really got to. In a sense, relation graphs as separate database entries could be considered "franchise" entries; though it's missing a bunch of fields one might normally add to a franchise. I imagine a graph entry would have a title + description + list of all entries in the graph and their relation.might be useful to keep the staff section for them as well Waaaaay out of scope, not happening.External media having their own entries is the one thing that should never happen. Unless we can find a database we can fetch all "external media" from, as we currently do with anime, managing them as separate entries is the simplest and cleanest way to handle the relations. Such a complete database does not seem to exist. |
| #7 by Mrkew 2023-01-31 at 15:14 | < report > Such a complete database does not seem to exist. But you don't need to use a singular source for it. It will be clean and simple just from it being sorted by type (LN, game, manga, etc.). The link could lead to its official website, to a game store, LNDB or whatever. |
| #8 by Ezezin 2023-01-31 at 15:24 | < report >Since last year I kinda had the same idea you had, but a little different. I've even worked out the different fields and even the guidelines :D Anyway, my aproach for "other media" is: - Title: Multiple languages. - Media: Video games | animated series (including anime movies and OVA) | live-action | light novels | novels/books (including web novels, fairy tales, poems, short stories and other written media) | manga/comics (including web comics) - Image: 300x500, 300x600, 256x300 or whatever resolution fits better. - Description field with BBcode formatting. - Related series: [Series ID/Series title] [x]official (see second point) - Links: Wikidata (Yes, I know people over here hates Wikidata, but it's useful and it's just one field which barely needs editing) or a "links field" (which in practice is just an empty free form field with BBcode formating allowed). For the second point I was thinking in having a "series"/"franchise" entry and move the relation graphs to it, with the following fields: - Title: Only a single title. No need for multiple ones - Aliases (Separated with a newline) - Description: With BBcode formating - Wikidata (we only need Wikipedia and probably a couple of other links) - VN relation: [VN ID/VN title] is a [sequel | prequel | alternative version | fandisk | ... ] of [VN ID/VN title] [x]official (However it should check if both VN entries are already linked to this entry, otherwise error message) - Media relation: [VN ID/VN title] is a [sequel | prequel | alternative version | fandisk | ... ] of [Media ID/Media title] [x]official (However it should check if the VN and media entries are already linked to this entry, otherwise error message) - Below this shows a list of linked VN and Media to the related series/franchise (something like the list of VNs in a producer entry). In VN entries, remove the relation fields, move the relations graph to the series/franchise entry and add a new field: - Related series: [Series ID/Series title] [x]official Edit: Alternatively, if it's too much work, you can keep the relation graph and relation field to VN entries, removing the "same series" from the relations (this would be handled by the series/franchise entry). This way the graphs will be smaller with space for more relations.Last modified on 2023-01-31 at 16:08 |
| #9 by rampaa 2023-01-31 at 17:46 | < report > Title (how many titles are we bothering with? full internationalization as we have for VN/releases or just stick with a single generic "display title"?) At the very least, I'd expect it to store the original title and its romanized form.Media type: anime (/cartoon?) / game / novel / light novel / manga (/ manhwa/comic?) / live-action. If we are going to have separate categories for novels and light novels, I'd appreciate it if we could have a separate category for web novels as well. |
| #10 by beliar 2023-01-31 at 19:37 | < report >I think it will be nice to have a short separate page for each instance of "other media" related to a visual novel. I mostly agree with EZZ proposal regarding that: * Title: Original, romanisation, and aliases * Image * Media. I think we could at first select the main genre, like video game, movie, TV/streaming show, literature, other. And after we select any of those, it opens another drop-down menu with more explicit categories. Not sure "video games" would need any sub-categories, so it could be an outlier with no drop-down menu. Movie: Anime, cartoon (non-anime), live-action TV/streaming show: Anime, cartoon (non-anime), live-action Literature: Novel, light novel, short story, web-novel, manga, comic (non-manga)... Other: Audio drama... Cannot think of anything else to go here, but I'm sure there is something I'm not currently thinking about. * Description * Relation to visual novels (however you are gonna solve that issue) * Links: I think "official site" should have its own field, plus it would be a good idea if VNDB could also recognize and fetch some prevalent DB links, like it does now with stores. My thoughts: Wikipedia (like EZZ said, it's a useful site for generic info) ANIDB (anime), like it does now MAL (anime, manga) IMDB (movies) IGDB (games) Goodreads (literature) (The one problem is that GR is incredibly silly, and attributes a new page for each edition of the book, the same as if we had separate VN entries for each release entry. There is no way to link to a book - you link to a specific edition. Might be hard/impossible to implement) etc. Not sure about the existence of other DBs, especially in regards to manga/anime. --- Regarding your second point, I don't have much to offer regarding the implementation currently, but I want to point out that the current framework is too rigid to be properly utilized. The biggest problem is you can only apply a single relation between two VNs. For example, when a VN is set in a shared universe with another Vn and they also share characters, I only ever use the "same setting" relation, as in my opinion "same setting" should always supersede "shares characters", if both of them apply. However, I have noticed that some users prefer to use "shares characters" as the main relation instead. However, neither of those views should be considered wrong, and in fact, this can easily be fixed by allowing the application of both relations between two VNs where applicable. The same can be said about VNs where they are technically a prequel and a sequel, but a sequel is actually just a "soft reboot (requel)". Unless you think it would be prudent to create a new "Requel" relation, an application of Prequel-Sequel relation, and an Alternative Version relation between two Vns should be possible. What I want to say, is that a binary relation between Vns is just too rigid to work properly, and should be relaxed, so that multiple connections could be made between the same VNs. |
| #11 by vario 2023-01-31 at 20:22 | < report > Not sure "video games" would need any sub-categories There should be a separation between soshage and other games in my opinion |
| #12 by vario 2023-01-31 at 20:28 | < report > Waaaaay out of scope, not happening I'll clarify that I meant the same old fields like scenario, character design, etc., so you can add someone like Nasu to something like FGO. Without adding anything new. But if this is also hard to implement then okay. |
| #13 by Yorhel 2023-02-02 at 10:30 | < report >I'm loving Ez' ideas in #8, I think we can work that out into something usable. For the external media links I was planning a similar system to what we have for releases, i.e. just allow a whole bunch of links to be added. However it should check if both VN entries are already linked to this entry, otherwise error message) Minor point: If the franchise/series entry already has a list of all VNs/media associated with it, then there's no need to add a field to VNs/media entries that points back to the franchise; That link will obviously still be visible from the VN/media pages, but there's no need to manually add it.Alternatively, if it's too much work, you can keep the relation graph and relation field to VN entries No, no, if it means getting rid of the VN relations stuff I'd be more than happy to spend some extra time making sure the full relations can be captured within franchise/series entries (we need to stick with a name...).* Media. I think we could at first select the main genre, like video game, movie, TV/streaming show, literature, other Proposed tiered system looks good to me. Possibly with a few adjustments but we can work that out later (like where does an OVA go?)multiple connections could be made between the same VNs. I suppose this could be implemented as well.I'll clarify that I meant the same old fields like scenario, character design, etc., so you can add someone like Nasu to something like FGO. I understood what you meant, but I don't want this information in the database even if it were easy to implement. It's not at all relevant to visual novels. Well, okay, indirectly perhaps, but having external media at all is already indirect enough for me.One thing that we could support is having a single VN in multiple series/franchises, that way we can have a separate franchise for Memories Off and for the SciAdv series, which are currently tangled into a single enormous relation graph together with nearly 700 other VNs. But we can still somehow link them together, though I'm not quite sure what the overarching relations between different franchises should look like; A "MAGES universe" franchise that only relates the main VNs together? Perhaps a system to allow for direct relations between franchise entries? EDIT: And then there's VNs like Ever17 CrossOver Impression, which should prolly just be included in multiple franchises.Last modified on 2023-02-02 at 12:28 |
| #14 by Ezezin 2023-02-02 at 14:04 | < report > I'm not quite sure what the overarching relations between different franchises should look like Sub-franchise, sub-series... minor series and major series? parent/child franchises? I don't know how this thing is called.In theory, should work very similar to tags and traits: linking a VN to a sub franchise will automatically be part of the parent one. Also this allows for linking multiple sub-franchises in one parent, a sub-franchise with two or more parents or even having a sub-franchise in a sub-franchise. With this there is no need to link a VN to a minor series and a major series at the same time. Why do you think I asked for a tagmod account in the beta site? ;) If you like, we could even have a "Primary parent franchise", a unapplicable franchise, meta franchises... All of them useless, I know. Why would we need a unapplicable franchise in the first place? I'm just stating the possibilities if the situation arises. Side note: If you think this could be useful (I dunno how), unapplicable check box should be editable only by mods. Anyway, the edit form: Parent series: [series ID/series name] multiple franchises Ohh, yes, that too. 👍Last modified on 2023-02-02 at 14:37 |
| #15 by beliar 2023-02-02 at 20:34 | < report > Possibly with a few adjustments but we can work that out later (like where does an OVA go?) I think it's quite easy to decide. An OVA that only has a single episode should go under "movie", and the one that has a few eps should be treated as a limited series and go under "TV/streaming" (or possibly the category could be named "series/show" instead, as I can imagine direct to DVD/BD limited shows).That said, when it comes to external media, many adaptations do not directly adapt the material, but are very loose interpretations, sometimes only taking the main gist of the original material and the characters, but taking their own spin on the plot. I think in such cases we need additional relations, like "based on" or something similar, in order to correctly portray how the work relates to the original.Last modified on 2023-02-02 at 20:36 |
| #16 by Ezezin 2023-02-03 at 03:00 | < report >What about Youtubers, Vtubers and streamers? Should we add them as related media or have their own franchises/series too? Personally, I don't think so, but I know there are people who cares (sometimes a bit too much) about them, with small communities creating fan-fiction and VNs around them.Last modified on 2023-02-03 at 03:05 |
| #17 by dostedt⭐ 2023-02-19 at 21:15 | < report > What about Vtubers? I know there are people who cares (sometimes a bit too much) about them Guilty as charged. While I am not sure how this is ultimately going to be implemented, I would like to throw my hat in for Ezezin's suggestion as making Vtuber related media part of this. As ultimately the guy who convinced the mods to sort the vtuber tag and traits out, it is my duty to vouch for anything related to Vtubing on here. |
| #18 by myou 2023-02-20 at 04:59 | < report >Apologies if the following comments from me are arriving inconveniently late. My personal opinion is that the "other media" entry could afford to be even more small-scale than what was proposed in #8. I feel like the concept behind Ezezin's use of the word "other" instead of "external" may be a sense of resignation to having entries for works on VNDB that are not VNs (or VN-like exceptions). But the word "external" could still make more sense if the foundation of these entries was still an external source. Here's an example of an alternative model that would be in line with that (my database terms may be off): "External media" data model: Unique key: The combination of 2 values, medium/DB choice x [partial] link to DB entry = I chose databases which are user-editable (so users can add the work if it doesn't exist yet), reasonably accurate, and have an API. = I'm aware this doesn't account for all theoretically possible mediums. However, I believe that if VNDB had a policy to not create external media entries solely for the sake of *unofficially related VNs* (fanfic), that would eliminate the majority of exceptions. If, say, a VN is about a particular VTuber, I think it would be fine to just allow a link to info about that VTuber somewhere in the description of the VN; this is already what's been done for Jouka no Monshou. If someone feels a responsibility to try to link all VNs in a particular fandom, they could always do so instead with a character entry, with a tag, or with their own personal list of VNs they share with others. But if there's enough demand and moderation is willing to put in the effort, you could potentially try to make a medium choice like "Other -> [Any string]" to account for these, which wouldn't connect to an external API at all, and simply serve to connect VNs to a single entity. List of some viable medium/DB choices -> DB the link has to be for: - Anime (contains CJK works) -> AniDB - Game (international) -> IGDB (I'm not too familiar with it, but I believe it allows users to add new games relatively easily, right?) - Manga (contains CJK works) -> MangaUpdates (yes, it has an API now: link .) - Light Novels (contains some CJK works, albeit a lot are still not there) -> MangaUpdates (or NovelUpdates, but I believe MangaUpdates is a better choice overall. Not familiar with Goodreads, but as a major CJK LN and WN reader, I can confirm that MU and NU are by far the 2 most complete DBs for LNs. I also disagree with rampaa/#9 that LNs and WNs should be distinguished, because most popular WNs are published as LNs eventually anyway such as SAO, and then their further adaptations tend to largely adapt the LN, so the practical worth of denoting that a work was originally a WN is questionable, and fan DBs like MU and NU don't properly differentiate between them... LNDB did, but RIP LNDB.) - Live Action (international) -> IMDB (Note: I don't use IMDB much, so I'm not sure whether there are any better web-based databases for CJK live action series in particular.) - (Non-Light or Western) Novel -> Goodreads? (I don't know much about it, it's just what beliar suggested. Supposedly the API is being "retired".) How to add it: - Under VN -> edit -> General info -> Database relations -> a new section "Add and edit external relations": Specify the medium. VNDB will ask you to enter a URL that corresponds to the DB entry for a work in that medium. VNDB will then interact with the DB's API to retrieve the title. You then click to confirm it's the right one. Then specify 1 or 2 more relations (sequel, side story, etc.). Maybe also allow you to add a line of explanation/additional info about the relation, such as what part of the VN is adapted or which characters are shared, since there's no other place to add useful info about the relation. And allow the user to edit/add other data here too (see below). When the VN edit is finalized, the newly added "external media" entry is add to the DB immediately before the edit itself (and its "external relation" entry) is added. Other data (Added under "Add and edit external relations"): - No image - No point, when the only purpose is to express that a relation exists. Leave the image to the external sites. - No description - No point, when the only purpose is to express that a relation exists. Leave the description to the external sites. - No unique page of its own - Again, no point. And that's also why image and description don't serve a purpose. Though perhaps some kind of relational graph pages could be allowed. - Other useful links (Wikipedia, Official, MAL/AniList, NovelUpdates, etc.) - Maybe buy links as a category treated separately from link (Epic/GOG/Steam just for games alone) - Optional but perhaps ideal: alternative titles (not aliases, since I believe the point of aliases is searchability, and I don't feel that searchability of external media should be facilitated by VNDB... not sure if that is still correct) based on the current flexible standard, if people want that. You could even allow them to change whatever title the API fetched and make a new "original" title. It's just that I suspect that this kind of flexibility could make external media entries complicated enough that they'd need their own unique page to manage them (outside of a VN's edit page), and my goal here was to describe a small-scale effective implementation. How external relations would be displayed: - In the Relations row of a VN's entry, the right td. Next to "unofficial" there'd be the word "external" which would toggle them. The medium would be display next to the relation type. Perhaps the name of the external media would not be a link, to make it less easy to casually mistake external relations for VN relations, but there'd be an external link to AniDB/IGDB/etc next to the name that would be a link. There'd be a button to see more info about the external relation by making a div un-hide, which would show a line with the note that explains more about the relation, followed by a line with related external links. So this is another interpretation of an entry to replace and expand the current external relations, which is geared more toward minimizing metadata associated with the content of the piece of media (like images and descriptions). Just my two cents for the record. |
| #19 by Ezezin 2023-02-20 at 08:37 | < report >I actually though about just adding more db relations using external sources to VN entries before coming up with my idea in #8, but after some days of thinking I found some problems: - Experience tell me VNDB users don't want to contribute to other databases. I tried to promote Wikidata a bit last year from time to time and all efforts ended up in nothing or rejection. - IGDB has strict policy of not allow any loli content in their website, fan-games not big enough or asset flips/stolen assets (this means some Itch.io and Patreon games are out) and other stuff that they deem inappropriate. There isn't an English "general video game" database or wiki with active users where we we could fetch the data for any game we want. And even if we try to add a new entry, we might find that for one reason or another, some kind of content is not allowed. - Some web-novels, web-comics and a few games comes from tumblr, Patreon (or similar sites), blogs or some website which is not registered in regular databases, and again, people are reluctant to contribute to other sites. - If the relation graph is already a mess with only VN relations, imagine how it will look with external media and more than one relation to the same entry. - The VN relations tab will just get bigger and bloated with more stuff. In some cases, it will remain useless or hard to read if an entry have too many relations. We could ask an implementation to put them in a separate tab, like characters and tags, but I feel that would make them a bit hidden. - We won't solve the problem with how series are handled in the database. It's messy, not helpful, always causing edit warring and confusion. - Gacha games are a special case, and most of them are "official", with several links to several VNs because of some crossover or collaboration event. - Obscure games and VNs are the most affect by this. Most of them won't have a proper link unless someone decides to contribute in another database. - Hard to add new relations or modifying the existing ones without making a mess in old VN entries and the relations graph. if VNDB had a policy to not create external media entries solely for the sake of *unofficially related VNs* Unofficial VNs should have the same treatment as official productions. While it's true that some of them are based on some weird very specific stuff, there are others based on the same work and shouldn't be a problem to link them with the same media.I'm aware that all these points can be solved by some fixes and changes here and there, but most of them will require a lot of restructuring of VN entries to acomodate for all changes and solutions and explaining why this VN has a game linked but this other VN not. I feel like the concept behind Ezezin's use of the word "other" instead of "external" may be a sense of resignation Heh... Not really. It was just the name I though at the moment, no hidden meaning behind it. ;)I don't mind if we don't have a media entry, and I agree is out of scope and it's not our job to document that stuff, but I'm against in adding more relations to VN entries. Not only because it will look messy, but because I believe such information is not related to VNs but instead in how they are linked in their own franchise or series, and I think such information should be in a separate entry, even if we abandon simplicity to better capture those relations.Last modified on 2023-02-20 at 08:42 |
| #20 by rampaa 2023-02-20 at 10:20 | < report > I also disagree with rampaa/#9 that LNs and WNs should be distinguished, because most popular WNs are published as LNs eventually anyway such as SAO, and then their further adaptations tend to largely adapt the LN How is this relevant though? A WN is not an LN. We shouldn't link both link and link as LNs. And not all WNs become LNs, see VNs made by SEACOXX. |
| #21 by myou 2023-02-20 at 21:06 | < report > How is this relevant though? A WN is not an LN. We shouldn't link both link and link as LNs. And not all WNs become LNs, see VNs made by SEACOXX. Yeah, it's clear that not all WNs are LNs. But in the model I described, which associates "external media" with entries in a database that house both WNs and LNs anyway, there was no useful reason to separate WN from LN. A LN adaptation of a WN is often just the WN with illustrations slapped onto it and an extra round of edits. You would end up with double the entries for WNs that've been adapted into LNs, like Re:Zero Death or Kiss and the KonoSuba VNs. I don't consider the line between light novel, web novel, and novel to be particularly fundamental either, since a light novel is just a light novel because it's part of a "light novel" label; some of the older ones don't even have illustrations. (I think you know this, but it bears repeating for those who don't.)If what you're concerned about is how it's labeled on the UI, there could be an option to set the displayed medium to "light novel". This would also better distinguish between CJK works in a single database that have different terms (like manga, manhwa, and manhua). An alternative would be to just call everything a "Novel". - IGDB has strict policy of not allow any loli content in their website, fan-games not big enough or asset flips/stolen assets (this means some Itch.io and Patreon games are out) and other stuff that they deem inappropriate. You make some good points, and cite cases I didn't think about. Your comments about niche indie works also make sense. Like I said, I'm aware the model didn't account for all theoretically possible mediums.There isn't an English "general video game" database or wiki with active users where we we could fetch the data for any game we want. And even if we try to add a new entry, we might find that for one reason or another, some kind of content is not allowed. The approach you outlined is capable of linking to any work, no matter how small, regardless of whether it's official or unofficial, regardless of whether it's in any database, and regardless of whether it's published or unpublished. That also means it doesn't have a built-in standard of notability though... If the creator of a 5-minute Ren'Py VN also drew 20 separate 1-page webcomics in the same setting, they could then argue that there are 20 different pieces of external media. So I think there are different tradeoffs. Currently, external links only cover anime... so the API-connected model I described at least wouldn't represent a downgrade in coverage of mediums. But yeah, flexibility is understandably valuable to have. I just wanted to present a possible alternative approach. Unofficial VNs should have the same treatment as official productions. While it's true that some of them are based on some weird very specific stuff, there are others based on the same work and shouldn't be a problem to link them with the same media. IMO, there's a qualitative difference in the usefulness of linking to related works that are all official and within the same canon--like a non-VN sequel such as Zero Escape 3--and the usefulness of linking to the original work for a fanfic, since it's probably labeled with the Fanfic tag up-front, it wouldn't surprise me to see the original work cited in the description, and many people would play that fanfic VN because they already know about and have played the original work.Heh... Not really. It was just the name I though at the moment, no hidden meaning behind it. ;) My bad then, I just meant that I liked the connotation of "external" better than "other" because "other" seems like there's less emphasis on trying to make it as external as possible.Edit - Looked it over and decided to rewrite a large part of this post to be more coherent. I need some sleep.Last modified on 2023-02-21 at 07:10 |
| #22 by Lotuscale 2023-03-06 at 09:42 | < report >Sorry to bump, but I have a question. Experience tell me VNDB users don't want to contribute to other databases. I tried to promote Wikidata a bit last year from time to time and all efforts ended up in nothing or rejection. It's a bit... er. >_<For me, it's not that I don't want to contribute to other databases, but I can't do edits on territories which I'm not so familiar with. Here's not Wikipedia, you know. We can't expect many people to consistently yet comprehensively contribute to such a niche topic (vn, anime, ect.). Each sites' editors are sure to have a deeer understanding of territory they familiar with, and using their links are the best way I can come up. Maybe you are an expert on wiki, but I think one's energy is too limited to cover all aspect, especially if they aren't professional wiki-ers. Plus, if the problem is not as simple as adding links to Wikidata, right? Some web-novels, web-comics and a few games comes from tumblr, Patreon (or similar sites), blogs or some website which is not registered in regular databases, and again, people are reluctant to contribute to other sites. How could this be solved by contributing to other sites, though? As far as I know, unless they provide an API, we can't make links to them.Umm, in short, my question is: how could the problems solved if we are willing and able to contribute to other sites? Anyway, huge thanks for your dedication to everything!Last modified on 2023-03-06 at 13:34 |
| #23 by BigLoad 2023-03-07 at 01:32 | < report >I'm going to second the opinion that external media shouldn't exist on VNDB. Visual novels only. The current rules of what constitutes a VN are already too lax as it is. |
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