Candidates for deletion

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#4026 by beliar
2021-09-10 at 22:01
< report >The few digital comics I have tried were still programs. You are now crossing into a different media entirely. A comparison could be made if, say, you had a digital comic, but when you launch it, it tells you to take the paper book on your desk and read it. In Kagikko L-only, you are launching a program, which says "Okay, let's watch a movie, instead of playing a game. Ain't it fun?".

VNs are still a subgenre of video games (even though some people would like to deny that). When you go outside of the realm of video games, whatever the thing you are watching is, it cannot be in good faith called a visual novel.
#4027 by historyeraser
2021-09-10 at 22:04
< report >
VNs are still a subgenre of video games
How do you think that?
#4028 by mrkew
2021-09-10 at 22:12
< report >It's from 1st person perspective of the protagonist entirely, like a VN, not like a movie.
The way to "play" is to read the unvoiced lines and listen to voiced lines, like a VN, not like a movie.
#4029 by beliar
2021-09-10 at 22:49
< report >
How do you think that?
Ummm, that's the actual definition of a VN.

"A visual novel, often abbreviated as VN, is an interactive fiction video game genre". - Wikipedia
"A visual novel can be seen as a combination of a novel and a computer game: they're computer games with a large text based storyline and only little interaction of the player." - VNDB

The way to "play" is to read the unvoiced lines and listen to voiced lines, like a VN, not like a movie.
VNs are not only about the function, but also about the structure. In order to be a visual novel, it must be a program. If you can launch the title while avoiding the program (HTML file), then the title does not carry the structure of a VN. MP4 is not a program but a container multimedia file. It simply cannot be called a VN by itself.
#4030 by eacil
2021-09-10 at 23:05
< report >We recently had a debate about VN being or not games lol.
Beliar, you should really read link which is a link provided by... I let you guess who.
I myself am in the "VN are not games, they can if they want though" faction.
Sorry to be such a pita. :D
#4031 by mrkew
2021-09-10 at 23:05
< report >Any VN uses containers in formats like .xp3, .dat, .mjo, or whatever else. The files in there are split into tachie, text, cg, and such, but all of it is accessible and can be all combined without running the game.
The main thing you should focus on is how a media is consumed. The primary way to consume movies to not reading. That's how VNs are consumed. And that's how this is consumed.
#4032 by historyeraser
2021-09-10 at 23:22
< report >
they're computer games with a large text based storyline and only little interaction of the player.
I wouldn't trust this description since we allow hybrids.

VNs are not only about the function, but also about the structure. In order to be a visual novel, it must be a program. If you can launch the title while avoiding the program (HTML file), then the title does not carry the structure of a VN. MP4 is not a program but a container multimedia file. It simply cannot be called a VN by itself.
Then would you consider something like Homestuck to be a VN? The presentation is not that different from say, Give It Time.

(FYI, I don't really know or care about Kagikko L-only, and I'm not trying to argue for it's inclusion/exclusion, I'm just asking this as more of a general question)Last modified on 2021-09-10 at 23:24
#4033 by beliar
2021-09-10 at 23:36
< report >
The primary way to consume movies to not reading.
Although you can read. Silent films with intertitles are a thing, foreign films with subtitles are a thing, or you can simply run the subtitles all the time if you are hard of hearing. A simple thing is - text can be a part of the movie format. In fact, I cannot discard the possibility that there are experimental movies with lots of text on screen.

The movie in question just so happens to have text as part of its presentation.

Then would you consider something like Homestuck to be a VN?
Actually yes, I would. It's composed of an image, an accompanying text, and a function to advance to the next screen. It seems to be a VN both in structure and in function.
#4034 by historyeraser
2021-09-10 at 23:40
< report >Can you delete Homestuck Visual Novel then? It's a page for a specific release. I'll make a new page for Homestuck proper.Last modified on 2021-09-10 at 23:40
#4035 by beliar
2021-09-10 at 23:46
< report >Not sure I understand. Why cannot you add a new release, and edit the main VN entry as needed? From the beginning it seems to be the same VN, only the current version adds music and is probably an unofficial build, though I didn't delve deeper to find out.
#4036 by historyeraser
2021-09-10 at 23:47
< report >I had a brainfart for a moment there. I'll do just that.
#4037 by mrkew
2021-09-11 at 00:09
< report >You know full well why I wrote primary in that post. It was specifically to avoid that answer. Yes, you can have subtitles on for a movie if you don't understand the language or if you're deaf. They are not mandatory. Unlike the display of text in a VN, which always combines the audiovisual experience with reading the lines.
Any movie you can find in a regular cinema, a person who understands the language can experience it without reading any of the characters' lines. That's not the case for VNs, which at the very least have unvoiced narration and usually unvoiced MC. You have to read, otherwise you will only understand half of the thing. It's like listening to just one of the sides of a phone conversation.
The only major difference I've noticed between this format and the standard VN format is the forced automode and lack of settings, neither of which is a dealbreaker.
#4038 by yorhel
2021-09-12 at 06:26
< report >Just gave Kagikko L-only a quick try. While movies are not visual novels, this is certainly more than just a collection of video files; it does have a visual novel-like UI and it tries pretty hard to be one, some UI elements change depending on the scene even. That this is HTML+MP4 is not really relevant, i.e. would you have considered this a VN if it were entirely implemented in Ren'Py with a custom video encoding that can't be viewed outside of the game?

The biggest issue that would disqualify it, in my opinion, is forced automode. But we don't have a rule against that (yet) and we have other entries in the database that would also fail that criteria. If we stick to the current guidelines, I'd say Kagikko L-only can be in the DB.

Now for some definitional pedantry :)

VNs are still a subgenre of video games
Despite agreeing with the article I linked ways back that said VNs are not "games" and should not be considered as such, from a purely definitional point of view I'd say that a "video game" is "interactive software created for the purpose of entertainment" (most game databases take a less liberal view of course, you'll get tons of crap otherwise) and by that definition I do considerer "visual novels" to be a subgenre of video games. But this is where definitions and categories deviate from common use of the terms.Last modified on 2021-09-12 at 07:00
#4039 by kumiko1
2021-09-12 at 07:10
< report >If Homestuck is allowed can I also add manga published online in a similar format? With images, accompanying text with narration, and you click to progress to the next page.
#4040 by historyeraser
2021-09-13 at 03:40
< report >MSPA Reader is a dupe of MSPA Reader
#4041 by giraty
2021-09-14 at 05:13
< report >BanG Dream! Girls Band Party! while I understand is full of stories, it's at the core a rhythm and gacha game and indeed best experienced with reading the stories. However if this is the case, then in my opinion, all other gacha games with stories like Princess Connect, D4DJ, Project Sekai, Imas, and a lot others should be here as well. The game breaks the one of many rules, e.g. "The storytelling segments should continue uninterrupted for a significant amount of time." Most stories are separated in parts which usually lasted from 5-10 minutes per part. Feel free to discussLast modified on 2021-09-14 at 05:14
#4042 by aresia
2021-09-14 at 05:46
< report >I didn't even realize Bandori is included here... Also, another realization. Eiyuu*Senki's stories are also seperated by parts.Last modified on 2021-09-14 at 05:46
#4043 by vario
2021-09-14 at 06:35
< report >Something like Princess Connect barely has any narration. If vndb deletes even games like FGO that have HUGE story chapters, this one is no good. On another hand, something like Uma Musume has more narration, and the text feels a bit more like your usual VN. But I expect some people to argue how you spend more time on the gameplay and not reading (even though we have a bunch of rising sims in the db already).
#4044 by historyeraser
2021-09-14 at 06:38
< report >#4043

No one has attempted to add Uma Musume according to link. If you wanna add it, then add it.
#4045 by butterflygrrl
2021-09-14 at 11:52
< report >#4039 - Homestuck in its original format is slightly more than just an online manga though. It's not just text with narration and clicking to progress. There's a lot of music, animation, minigames (which are direct parts of the story, not just amusing optionals), some weird branching/looping stuff with choices and clicking, a 'save game' function... It's a lot closer to being an online VN.

Now, that's in its ORIGINAL format. I have no idea what's happened with the story since Flash died. I have been told there are special exe versions of homestuck you can download that replicate all the missing sections, which would then look very much like VNs.
#4046 by stealthswor
2021-09-14 at 18:19
< report >#4043

if FGO can't get in there should be no gacha allowed at all really
#4047 by historyeraser
2021-09-14 at 18:27
< report >#4045
I have no idea what's happened with the story since Flash died.
The gameplay was removed and replaced with more images and text. The FMVs are replaced with Youtube embeds.

This new .exe version you mentioned is r82848
#4048 by poudink
2021-09-14 at 18:43
< report >The description claims all of the Flash elements are intact, though.
#4049 by historyeraser
2021-09-14 at 18:47
< report >Yeah, that's the "special exe version".

The one without the flash elements is r82840
#4050 by giraty
2021-09-16 at 04:20
< report >So BanG Dream! Girls Band Party! is qualified enough to stay?