Candidates for deletion

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#4326 by 4digitmen
2021-11-15 at 01:05
< report >#4325

Frankly none of these answer my questions at all, given:
1. The aesthetics of the Higurashi entries are *great* aren't they? They're in the same boat, and Higurashi is frankly the one that needs it more than 9-nine does. It's even more bloated with rereleases.
2. Some of these arcs are connected and some aren't. They were all merged into one entry and don't constitute the same storyline, and fit right in to the subject being spoken of before, where the Chronicles side stories got their own entries. Some of the arcs under this entry are that exact thing, so if the same treatment was given, they too should have their own entries on the website.
#4327 by myougaunzen
2021-11-15 at 01:07
< report >@4322 , @4324

higurashi is as it is because of how it was released, and no they shouldn't be split.

episodes 1-4 was released over 2 years as partial releases with each new one including all previous arcs in the same game/exe, with the 4th being the complete entry which is Higurashi no Naku Koro ni

Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai was also the same thing again over 2 years

Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Rei and Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Hou are for new arcs as well as being standalone games added in a fandisc and bonus disk from hou collection.

so if you play them on pc you have 4 exes,
one for 1-4, one for kai, one for rei, and one for hou

if you play on console you have extra arcs in those entries, a massive amount of content, usually extra routes only count as infomation for releases, but in this case it was decided that it warranted a individual entry in Higurashi no Naku Koro ni: Console Arcs because of the large amount of content.

umineko is similar except it doesnt have any extra console arcs iirc

in the case of muv luv this does not apply
since people seem to be confused about why there is being splits made, it is because we don't want to have the same content covered twice in vn entries.

the day after isnt something new, it is exactly the same as the main content in chronicles 01. just chronicles 01 also had like 2 other stories, and the silly beta human form nukige thing.

so the day after steam release should have been a release of chronicles since it is the release format.

Photonflowers and Photonmelodies should never have been allowed because they have zero new vn content, therefor they should have been releases for each of the other things they took content from.

age is just dumb and create compilations compiled from previous compilations by mixing and matching with zero new content.
hence the spliting for easier voting

if they even had one new thing added you could have had an entry for Photonmelodies or w/e with the description this entry is for the new content in Photonmelodies

the reason for these splits are entirely for convienience of the english readers so they can vote for what they read instead of for only paritially of what the vn page would have been.

also just so you know if you already have Photonmelodies etc on your list it stays there even if it gets deleted. I'm the one who loses because my preferred way of having chronicles 1-4 as entries for my votes because they are getting changed names to the day after.

9-nine is a series of short complete games which are sequels to each other. just because they got a release at the end which has all of them doesn't change this, they are still seperate games.

unlike higurashi where 1,2,3,5,6,7 initial releases were partial releases before the final first release of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni and Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai

same reason baldr sky dive 1,2 are seperate vns, even though you can combine them, they were originally not a partial release, even if a sequel was planned.

it all comes down to release format alot of the time, although some exceptions are made for convienience (like muvluv atm)

otherwise by that argument we would be combining entire series together just becasue they continue from each other.

imagine rance 1-10 all as on entry or the re;lord series, basically all of them end on cliffhangers and are continued in next but that doesnt stop them being complete games.
#4328 by 4digitmen
2021-11-15 at 01:19
< report >#4327

This would all be valid reasoning... if not for the fact that the "larger, and frankly, more important" mod reasoning on the 9-nine subject is aesthetics. So, if this is really why, then I shouldn't have to say that the Higurashi entries are a dumpster fire and should be split for aesthetic purposes.

And no, the argument wouldn't combine sequels. Rance 1-10 didn't get any big release compiling them all together or something. Although if we really were to take the argument a step further then both White Album 2 chapters would be merged. That's a more apt example.
#4329 by Ileca
2021-11-15 at 01:21
< report >OH LOOK AT THAT, Atonement/贖罪 was apparently first released in the 2006-05 issue of Tech Gian! SO MUCH FOR THE INFORMED MUV-LUV FANS. link
Two years before Ayu Mayu Alternative!

OH LOOK AT THAT, Succession/継承 was apparently first released in the 2006-06 issue of Dengeki Hime! SO MUCH FOR THE INFORMED MUV-LUV FANS. link
Two years before Ayu Mayu Alternative!

How many of those """tightly tied""" stories were actually released on their own?
I guess it's time to stop listening to Muv-Luv steam fans.
#4330 by myougaunzen
2021-11-15 at 01:57
< report >remember this is the exception not the rule, just because this is being split doesnt mean anything else can or will be unless they warrant it too

its an old game but for example unless D.P.S. , D.P.S. SG , and D.P.S. SG Set 2 have a new release which does something dumb like age and includes story 1 from 2, story 2 from 3, and story 3 from one then it would stay as it is, unless that happens (it wont) then noone will split each of them into three

something similar to Photonmelodies is Kotori Love Ex P , it contains stuff from previous compilation stories but it has no reason to be split. since it also contains original content which the entry is for.

yes the rance example was purposely over the top.
white album 2 you could argue that it could be merged, but as the release schedule as how it was, they should remain separate. they really are entirely different things, even if the first is a massive build up to the second

the thing is, the database has never merged entry together when they get a release containing all unless they were planned that way from the start.

i argued for majikoi A to not be split back when that happened, but ultimately even though it had a final release including 1-5 + and an extra one,
and that went through anyway, which does make sense really

although on that note for the same reason as majikoi A, Walkure Romanze Re:tell should be split, it has even less reason to be the same entry - just append stories for heroines 2 at a time, just like the recent smee fandisks

higurashi was always planned as 1-4,
so ep 1 was a program with chapter 1,
and then ep 2 was that exact same thing with ep 2 appearing after ch1 finished for new players, and for old players they could say they had read ch1 already and skip it.
and that continues up to the completed chapter 4, which as an end result has 1-4 all included in the same game/exe. not to mention if you read 1-8 its very easy to see how 1-4 and 5-8 fit as single works.
chapter releases leading up to a completed release isn't that uncommon

and are is short "chapter-like" games like 9 nine which are complete short games, being direct sequels to each other. these shouldnt be merged unless they are obviously partial releases initially.

same with the day after imo, but that doesnt even have a compiled release yet so its out of the question

reading @4329 shows that Ayu Mayu Alternative! should definately be split.

but for chronicles 1 for example, if Photonflowers and Photonmelodies didnt exist, chronicles 1-4 should still be their own entries, (with the exceptions of extra entries for Chicken Divers, Rain Dancers, which makes the chronicles for everything else)
but with Photonflowers and Photonmelodies making it messy it is still best (probably) to have it completly split into different entrysLast modified on 2021-11-15 at 01:58
#4331 by krtsc
2021-11-15 at 02:18
< report >#4329
Whereas you are so well informed it only took you 7 years to notice photonflowers* exists.Last modified on 2021-11-15 at 02:19
#4332 by Ileca
2021-11-15 at 02:27
< report >Yeah, sure buddy, seven years I am a mod... on a database editable by everybody, such as people like you, about a license I have little interest in (I looked into that three days ago because of two reports). All my fault.
#4333 by krtsc
2021-11-15 at 02:38
< report >I am well aware you have little interest.
#4334 by insayn
2021-11-15 at 04:15
< report >#4329

What are you even adding to the conversation right now? 😭
People didn't double check the dates. That's it. Happens. Anywho that's an issue way past "Steam fans" as that relates to the entire fanbase lol.


My case for Photonflowers is that it adds a comprehensive visual timeline for the games and places them in not only order of relevance, but chronological order and tells you how they all tie in together, unlike the original. So it does add something of value the original didn't have. Photonflowers is just the more serious side of the Muv-Luv Extra content for Alternative, while Photonmelodies is the comedic side of Muv-Luv even amongst the Alternative entries.
So the reason for the split actually makes complete sense. Photonflowers is for tears. Photonmelodies is for cheers. Is the thematic importance of their split enough to merit this version being important? I believe so
At least it's easy to explain the importance of one or another to someone who wants to continue with Muv-Luv after Muv-Luv Alternative.
Photonmelodies does also have (aside from a large collective gallery of CGs) like 90 pieces of background art that are customized for Photonmelodies and aren't attached to the OG game that are actually bonuses to the game play that you unlock by getting to certain scenes.
If they were just random images I'm sure it wouldn't matter, but they're an entire reward system that's treated as unlockables that's customized to Photonmelodies.Last modified on 2021-11-15 at 04:19
#4335 by gambs
2021-11-15 at 06:54
< report >#4334
I don't think any of what you said works as justification for having those entries as VNs rather than releases though. Heck, even some games that add *entirely new routes to VNs* are considered releases rather than separate entries (consider r248). Giving you background art for playing doesn't make it a VN. It's entirely orthogonal in every way.
#4336 by trickzzter
2021-11-15 at 07:04
< report >#4335 I have even better example: Shuffle!

Shuffle! - Original release
Shuffle! on the stage - Two new routes, 18+ content removed
Shuffle! Essence+ - Even more routes, 18+ content restored, the old routes have been expanded

All of these versions are the same VN. And there are tons of such examples.Last modified on 2021-11-15 at 07:05
#4337 by insayn
2021-11-15 at 07:08
< report >#4335 #4336

I don't agree that those are the same VN on an inherent level lol
Those are completely separate games to me.
If you brought those differences to most people, they would 100% be considered different games.
Like if someone were to say P5R and P5 vanilla were the same game, they'd get mobbed lmfao. Or P4 and P4G. That's just kind of obvious that if you change that much it isn't the same game anymore.

These comments also contradict #4330 so I feel these guidelines need to be more set in stone because it almost feels like picking and choosing.Last modified on 2021-11-15 at 07:10
#4338 by historyeraser
2021-11-15 at 07:11
< report >That's a shit comparison cuz most of the changes in the Persona rereleases are related to gameplay. Most of the story isn't rewritten.Last modified on 2021-11-15 at 07:14
#4339 by insayn
2021-11-15 at 07:18
< report >#4338

I just said the literal game play changes in Photons and adds rewards for completion bonuses.
I'm sure you can read just fine.

Photonmelodies also removes a handful of Mini games from Spacetime to the point where it's not even the same game anymore. (volleyball haters winning)
It changes the final scenes of each route.
It removes the h scenes.
It removes the Marimo route completely.Last modified on 2021-11-15 at 07:21
#4340 by historyeraser
2021-11-15 at 07:21
< report >Simply removing some scenes isn't a rewrite by itself. The final scenes of each routes being changed seem to be the only meaningful change as far the db is concerned, but it's still not enough. Gameplay changes do not matter either.Last modified on 2021-11-15 at 07:21
#4341 by insayn
2021-11-15 at 07:24
< report >#4340

Literally adding new games. Removing old games. Changing scenes. Removing routes.

They aren't even the same game anymore wtf. Literally no one would say they are if they actually played them. I've seen playthroughs of the old one and it's completely different once you get to the island and on.

The original Spacetime was considered a noncanon fandisc. (it still is considered noncanon)
The new version is considered a Canon game to the story.

Wiki link:
linkLast modified on 2021-11-15 at 07:34
#4342 by Ezezin
2021-11-15 at 12:35
< report >For the record: A wiki is not a reliable source unless it has an active moderation team or a consistent userbase that checks most changes in articles. Everyone can edit a wiki as long as they create an account and know how to do it.
If I were you, I would use other sources. That wiki only have 4 active users and only 1 is maintaining the pages.

Good to have as reference, but not as a source.Last modified on 2021-11-15 at 12:38
#4343 by insayn
2021-11-15 at 12:38
< report >#4342

If you care to prove it incorrect then go ahead and do so (Which you won't be able to do because the game is explicit about this).

Once you load the old Shimmering game you'll see from the beginning it's a non-canon fandisc because the game itself says it. The new game is an official sequel. The wiki can tell you exactly where.

Here's the old Altered Fable wiki with the non-canon inclusion. You can open the game and check it for yourself. Check trivia and use it for confirmation because my words and the wiki aren't enough to convince you. The game will talk for itself.:

linkLast modified on 2021-11-15 at 12:51
#4344 by desmondkun
2021-11-15 at 12:53
< report >I have played both versions of shimmering shards and I can confirm that the old one is non-canon. Old one is a fandisc and the new one is a canon sequelLast modified on 2021-11-15 at 12:54
#4345 by 4digitmen
2021-11-15 at 15:38
< report >#4330
> higurashi was always planned as 1-4,
It wasn't. Himatsubushi wasn't planned, it was just something Ryuukishi decided he would do.

Originally, the series was supposed to move onto Meakashi (and thus Answer Arcs) after Tatarigoroshi. There's direct evidence of this in Tatarigoroshi's post-story discussion corner (I forgot what it's called), where instead of Himatsubushi being referenced as the next chapter it's Meakashi. Himatsubushi was supposed to be an extra thing not included into the main arcs.

And, honestly, Higurashi reads like it was unplanned as hell anyway.
#4346 by beliar
2021-11-15 at 15:49
< report >
I have played both versions of shimmering shards and I can confirm that the old one is non-canon.
What exactly are the differences between the two?
#4347 by insayn
2021-11-15 at 17:26
< report >#4346

I previously stated in #4339 the changes.

Considering the fact that there's 9 routes (there were 10), this changes a good 20% of the game when they cut/ added scenes/games/etc.
#4348 by desmondkun
2021-11-15 at 17:29
< report >Holy shit now why would you delete TDA 01??!!! Where tf am I supposed to log that VN now??!! TDA 00-03 should be seperate entries ffsLast modified on 2021-11-15 at 17:32
#4349 by desmondkun
2021-11-15 at 17:39
< report >Please I'm begging for a mod who has actually played all of the stuff including TDA. You CANNOT just combine all TDA entries into one "The Day After". You were saying steam releases are not valid, but even the japanese release was seperate for them. Where tf is the logic in this??!!
#4350 by 4digitmen
2021-11-15 at 17:40
< report >#4348

TDA is one story released in parts, it makes sense that they're merged. Although I'm not sure how Resonance is gonna fit into it in the future. Maybe TDA will forever be a sea of partials.