Should it really be here?

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#1 by beliar
2011-10-26 at 19:30
Well, I played and finished the game and I can assure you, that it's not a visual novel in any sense of that term.
It has no narration (dialogue only) and the plot scenes are very short and constantly interrupted by lengthy battles. In essence, this is an RPG that tells its story through an ADV interface. You might try the demo to see for themselves how the story is presented.
#2 by gabezhul
2011-10-26 at 19:37
*sigh* I'm not really sure I'm glad you brought this up since it just reminded me of something that has been killing me: Castle Fantasia 2. The reason? That game has been in the database and has been recognized as a VN all this time but it has NO narration whatsoever, which makes it hard for me to decide what to do with this particular game...
#3 by beliar
2011-10-26 at 19:42
My memory of Fantasia is a bit foggy, but I remember that it had much much longer plot episodes than Planet Stronghold. Here the longest plot episode is probably literally 5 minutes. Maybe even less.
#4 by h4
2014-11-16 at 07:15
I played and finished this some time ago as well. While it certainly leans more toward the RPG side of things, I still think it should be included. Sure the plot is weak & cliche, but so what? That applies to many other VN. With regard to the RPG elements, it can be played at a difficulty level where the combat becomes trivial, so only the story really remains. I hope this deletion is reconsidered.
#5 by beliar
2014-11-16 at 12:50
To be included in this database, a game needs to use the novel narrative consistently for telling its story. Examples include describing visuals, events, character actions or thoughts.
No narration.
This storytelling needs to be uninterrupted* for a significant length
The game is constantly interrupted by battle sequences. Sure, you can set the battles to easy, but that's not the point. The battles are the main feature of this game. Paper thin plot is only the background for them.
This is my opinion. Unless other moderators disagree with me, I vote for leaving it deleted.
#6 by tyciol
2015-03-22 at 14:48
Perhaps we could at least see it covered on a similar database first. Has chars and dialogue and story however interrupted or first person. Wondering if we have a sister database. Creator company has other stuff here.
#7 by tyciol
2015-08-12 at 16:28
One thing I think is notable here is that it is distribute by Winter Wolves who are known for adapting simple visual novels to the android in the Google store. I think them interpreting this as a VN is worth something. I do not think a story necessarily requires narration. Dialogue can suffice. Lots of VNs have mini games.
#8 by pabloc
2015-08-12 at 18:12
I think them interpreting this as a VN is worth something.
Yes, it is worth something. A potato, to be exact. Slightly rotten one.

Quote from Winter Wolves site: "Planet Stronghold is a sci-fi role-playing game with a turn-based combat system."

Seriously, what kind of argument was that? -.-'Last modified on 2015-08-12 at 18:14
#9 by gabezhul
2015-08-12 at 18:20
A very good argument, I must say.
*takes a sip of coffee from a NASA-print space-probe*
Oh, sorry, I was just drinking from my space-probe. What, you say it's a cup? Don't be silly. It was endorsed by NASA, NASA is known for building space-probes, therefore this cylinder with a handle designed to hold a liquid is -obviously- a space-probe. Elementary, my dear Watson.
#10 by tyciol
2015-12-08 at 03:13
I guess I'm biased because Planet Stronghold came up when I was searching 'visual novel' in the google store.

Looking beyond the quote pabloc found though, look at how other sites describe the game:

link tags it as "visual novel" and curators say "A visual novel with a cool story" and a recommended review says "This is a nicely balanced blend of traditional turn-based RPG and sci-fi/adventure/romance visual novel-"

link is holding 'visual novel' as its genre, and there is link which speaks for itself.

link "a hybrid dating sim and RPG, combining elements of two distinctively Japanese genres (visual novel and old-school jRPG)"

link "Stronghold is an RPG / visual novel hybrid"

link lists Visual Novel genre too
#11 by pabloc
2015-12-08 at 13:06
@10 Oh FFS!

1) Quote from Steam:
Planet Stronghold is a sci-fi >role-playing game< with a turn-based combat system.
Tags are added by random Western gamers who have absolutely no idea what a VN is (just like random curators and random reviewers who label it as a VN).

2) Quote from Wikipedia:
The >game< offers a mix of classic visual novel gameplay(???), with >dialogues< and many choices to make
Dialogues and choices are typical elements of RPGs, and VNs don't have any "gameplay" to speak of really. This article is just wrong.

3) Visualnovelgames.com offers a wide variety of dating sims, RPGs, raising sims and whatnot. I'm willing to bet that the majority of their titles are NOT VNs.

4)
a hybrid dating sim and RPG, combining elements of two distinctively Japanese genres (visual novel and old-school jRPG)
So is it a dating sim OR a VN? It seems that the author likes mixing up those two genres.

5) Quote from Desura:
Planet Stronghold is a sci-fi anime roleplaying game.
Description is contradicting the tags. You consider this a reliable source?

6) Last, my favorite - quote from videogamegeek:
A visual novel in its basic form is a dating game with static 2D artwork, a choose your own adventure mechanism, and multiple endings. There are variations that are less interactive (a story where you just click 'next' to continue) and variations with complex gameplay (typically minigames or turn-based combat). Think Harvest Moon with static manga art and you'll get the idea.

Visual novels are classified on the level of gameplay interactivity and the genders of the romantic characters. The less interactive games are known as kinetic visual novels or NVLs, while the more interactive are called adventure visual novels or ADVs. In terms of the dating side, they're classified as boy / girl protagonist x boy / girl love interest. So a game where a male protagonist has several female love interests would be BxG, and a game where the protagonist and the love interests can be either gender would be BxG, BxB, GxG, GxB.
This guy has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. His explanations of existing terminology are completely wrong, and he makes up non-existent terms and classifications. What is this supposed to prove?

Whatever """"sources"""" you link, they won't add any narration to this title and they won't remove it's RPG gameplay. It's not a VN. It's a perfectly typical RPG, with perfectly typical RPG dialogues. Get over it already.Last modified on 2015-12-08 at 13:09
#12 by vukp
2016-01-09 at 12:24
I don't see how is this not considered a VN and Loren the amazon princess and Seasons of the Wolf are, not to mentioned some other titles on VNDB.
#13 by [deleted]
2016-01-09 at 20:37
Loren the Amazon Princess is definitely a VN due to the writing style (large amounts of narration, not just ADV-style dialogue). Comparatively, Planet Stronghold has little narration and a very high gameplay:story ratio. Seasons of the Wolf should probably be removed, though, TBH.Last modified on 2016-01-09 at 20:38
#14 by vukp
2016-01-10 at 01:45
@ minah
Now you are saying that Loren is a VN and Seasons of the wolf isn't witch is just complete nonsense as ratio between story and game-play is the same in both of those titles. And while Planet Stronghold does lean a bit more on a gameplay side then other two titles it still concentrates more on story and considering that titles such as BlazBlue series and Mamatoto ~a record of war~ are considered VNs by VNDB I think this one should be too.
#15 by [deleted]
2016-01-10 at 02:37
See d2; narration and uninterrupted storytelling are the two important criteria for determining whether something in a VN style with gameplay belongs here. In order to argue for Planet Stronghold's inclusion, you need to show that it meets those criteria, as well, not just compare it to other games in the database, particularly ones that are special cases (d15) or other borderline games.

EDIT: And I apologize for my previous somewhat dismissive reply. I should have pointed out the guidelines and stuck to the question of this particular game, not started a new argument about other titles in the database.Last modified on 2016-01-10 at 03:25
#16 by vukp
2016-01-10 at 18:24
@ minah

True, I didn't know about rules surrounding special cases, so with those in mind you are right this one doesn't belong among VNs. True that is going to make it a bit confusing for the next game in the series Planet Stronghold Colonial Defense as that one is going to have a "VN Mode" witch means you will be able to play it with no gameplay.
#17 by [deleted]
2016-01-11 at 10:54
Interesting; I'll definitely have to check out PSCD when it's released. I don't know if being related to a VN in the database would be a point for Planet Stronghold's inclusion, but it would be nice if there was an organized way to link VNs to related non-VN games.

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