Hardest Visual novel in english

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#1 by kyonko911
2011-10-27 at 16:12
< report >Something which requires a lot of skill to clear in some way otherwise extremely intelligent,
For example: a Mystery Visual novel with a huge database of different routes in one game due to a system where Multiple dead ends or bad ends will be reached if the player falters even a little in his decision making. Or just a game that can be hardcore to unlock something to then go on to complete the game or unlock cool bonuses and extras.

Id appreciate the info on a lenghtly and entertaining game with an english patch.
#2 by overmage
2011-10-27 at 16:27
< report >SENGOKU

RANCE

link

All you want or need.

Play it on 5 star and weep.

There exist harder games (e.g. Seinarukana), but those aren't available in English yet.

I tore my hair out at this game (try defending against the entire Takeda Blitz on 2 star and above), but it's all worth it. This game is genius.Last modified on 2011-10-27 at 16:33
#3 by azathoth
2011-10-27 at 18:23
< report >I second Sengoku Rance. I've spent well above 300 hours on it and I'm still not completed with everything. It's still just about as fun as the first time, just that I know the dialogues by heart and only do the playing bit now.

It really is the game you're looking for.
#4 by justinizhere
2011-10-27 at 19:12
< report >yeah, sengoku rance by far, im a few hundred hours in, and im still missing CG's and whatnot.

you will rage, and rage a lot at higher difficulties.
#5 by PabloC
2011-10-27 at 19:26
< report >+1 for Sengoku Rance. You can try Daibanchou (v299) too.

As for VNs without gameplay elements, consider Fate/Stay Night (v11) for it's 40 bad endings. Tsukihime probably too.
Also, I remember Guilty -The SiN- being quite complicated with it's shitload of choices (v3994) or Critical Point with lots of endings (v145). They are both quite interesting, not too awesome though.

Or just try looking for tags, such as g1025, g1251 or g1182. :PLast modified on 2011-10-27 at 19:27
#6 by blackiris
2011-10-27 at 19:43
< report >Aye, I second the above, but only partially. The problem with Sengoku Rance is that its system doesn't make the game hard or demanding, but utterly stupid. The gameplay is basically annoying and its randomness and unpredictability of events make it more of a rock-paper-scissors than a strategy game. So... it does, believe me, it does require a number of skills to clear it. Such as: peace of mind, calmness, languor is also very helpful, yes. It's not intelligent though, don't look for any refined plot or character development in Sengoku Rance.
It's not like I'm trying to criticize the game, it's good in its own way. A fuckton of routes, characters, extras, find-me scenes-- it's all there! And the protagonist is likable and all... it's that bloody system that ruined it for me! But hey, you ain't me - and there's a high probability that you'll truly enjoy it. Give it a damn shot, it's well worth it.
But let's assume - for the sake of moving on - that you kind of... you know, hated the game and would like to play something good for a change.

If we're talking about intelligent games available in English... er, know what? Let's skip the intelligent, and move on to those which are really difficult to clear. Like-- Kagetsu Tohya. If you enjoy being unsure whether the next choice will permanently make you unable to reach some yet-to-be-read dialogue, and you enjoy the feeling of déjà vu... that's the one you may want to go with. But you need to read Tsukihime beforehand, as it's its parent story - no need to worry though, it's a very good vn too. Another one is F/sn - to clear all of the bad ends you will need a loooot of time and about as much calmness. And every single bad end unlocks a little something for you in Extras. There's also Utawarerumono - play it on the hardest difficulty to experience how one small mistake can shatter your chance for being victorious in a battle. Unfortunately, it suffers from an issue similar to that in Sengoku (but it's nowhere near being as annoying) - sometimes you must just hope that AI will fuck it up, as you're literally unable to prevent certain events. And finally - YU-NO, which was recently translated into English, it DOES require a lot (of time?) to complete it without a walkthrough.

You can also try searching by tags: /rpg, srpg, strategy game, interactive adventure game/ as these are the most likely to be of some challenge. Search by /philosophy, time travel, time loop, life and death drama/ to get something a tad more intellectual, but don't really expect to much of them. The less you expect, the more pleasant is your surprise when something delivered much more than it had been expected of it.
#7 by jakerams
2011-10-27 at 21:22
< report >I say Daibanchou Big Bang AgeLast modified on 2011-11-02 at 21:46
#8 by erotikill
2011-10-27 at 21:37
< report >Yu-No. v1377Last modified on 2011-10-27 at 21:37
#9 by gabezhul
2011-10-27 at 22:04
< report >Yu-No is more annoying than hard, but otherwise it fits the bill.
#10 by erotikill
2011-10-27 at 22:34
< report >@ gabezhul

Very right-- thought I'd toss it out there in the sea of Sengoku Raperaperape
#11 by loctar87
2011-10-28 at 00:28
< report >Difficulty isn't exactly a treasured attribute of visual novels. They are stories after all. The writers and publishers want people to complete them, so there aren't many games that require lots of skill. However, if you just want a game that's difficult to complete, regardless of skill, try Kagetsu Tohya. (After completing Tsukihime, of course.)

Edit: Stategy-wise, Rance can't be beaten for all around fun and replayability, but Eien no Aselia should be mentioned too. It's much simpler, and maybe not especially difficult once you get the hang of it, but it does require strategy and thought.Last modified on 2011-10-28 at 00:40
#12 by justinizhere
2011-10-28 at 01:04
< report >Eien no Aselia isnt all that hard, nor does it require much thought, build a tower in ur city, and bleed them dry at your doorstep o.o

you use that strategy for everything but the last fight really.

however im not saying its bad, i enjoyed it personally.
#13 by overmage
2011-10-28 at 05:24
< report >I actually disagree with randomness and unpredictability. Sure, the first few times I played it it seemed like that, but now that I'm a veteran at the game (or hope I am...), I can actually pretty much deal with any unforseen circumstances the game throws at me. Rather, the problem is that at the higher difficulty settings, the element of randomness is actually removed altogether - rather than having an enemy sometimes attack or sometimes fortify themselves, they will *always* attack - and they will *always* attack together. :X

I remember when I first started out that I got screwed by unlucky turns of events, but now I pretty much blitz through the first 25 turns playing whatever way I want :P The Guard system is sheer genius, and to me, one of the underpinnings of the whole Sengokurape battle system. Master Guard and you master half the game. At lower difficulty settings you win by proper use of bushi and foot, but at higher settings it's diviner-spam all the way, with a side dish of Yamamoto's Whirlwind Shot and the one useful miko's Miko Storm 2, scratch that, if you have Her Majesty the Nine-Tailed Fox of Insane Star, she'll one-shot anyone

I actually found more than a trifling amount of strategy required once you start playing at the higher difficult settings (easily done once you start a second playthrough for the IF routes), for instance, during the infamous Takeda Blitz, the key is knowing exactly how to split your forces into 4 to defend successfully. Since they always attack the same way this turn, proper division of your troops is vital, and even then it's still no walk in the park - each of the 4 battles is a desperate struggle for survival. xD Assuming you want to 'Assassinate Takeda Shingen', which means you *must* defend successfully for all 4Last modified on 2011-10-28 at 05:40
#14 by kyonko911
2011-10-28 at 06:24
< report >Thanks Guys!
#15 by darkmac
2011-10-28 at 06:46
< report >Adam: The Double Factor is the one I had the most trouble with, not counting Rane. So much frustration.
#16 by mazyrian
2011-10-28 at 13:12
< report >Snow Drop could be difficult to beat without a walkthrough. In a different genre, Kara no Shoujo could be also a challenge.
#17 by grall93
2011-10-28 at 13:37
< report >Remember11Last modified on 2011-10-28 at 13:37
#18 by araya
2011-10-28 at 18:41
< report >I thought about Kara no Shoujo too but he said
Something which requires a lot of skill to clear in some way otherwise extremely intelligent
When I KnS you mainly need to be lucky on your choices on the map.
#19 by unkind
2011-10-28 at 21:28
< report >Clannad, kyou's route was actaully really hard and annoying to complete with no walkthru, i tried for a couple hours even before using it.
#20 by mazyrian
2011-10-28 at 23:07
< report >Getting to the true end of the After Story would be pretty hard, actually
#21 by gabezhul
2011-10-28 at 23:18
< report >Clannad falls into the same general category as Yu-No, as it's not really "hard" but rather it can be quite obscure at times.

But once again, as it was said before, VN is generally not a "game" type medium unless it's hybridized with a game-genre like TBS or TRPG, so looking for "challenging" VNs is kinda nonsensical, as it's like as if one was looking for challenging books...
Still, if I would really want to give a recommendation according to the OP's request, it would not be SR but Fate/Stay Night, as it fits the bill on several aspects, as it has an abundant number of choices, numerous bad-ends stemming from said choices and completely fall in with the "bad ends will be reached if the player falters even a little in his decision making" notion, not to mention that FSN -is- lengthy and entertaining. :P
#22 by atlantima
2011-11-02 at 13:50
< report >v7382 - VN/shooter where some of the choices are stupidly hard to unlock. One of the choices has a requirement to never die.

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