A misunderstanding?

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#1 by kei-tr
2012-01-06 at 12:21
Hi!

I'm creator of the "Main Heroine" tag and i see you gave -3 score to some of my favorite visual novels about that tag (of course i read all of them).

Maybe you misunderstand what i mean with "important" about that tag. Of course screen time is important factor but i mean with "important" most standing out heroine, maybe a heroine with important memories for her with protagonist and maybe a heroine feeling most love against protagonist.

I think all of my votes correct or close to correct. For example you gave Kanon -3 score with main heroine tag. I think this is injustice a little (not for me, for visuel novel). If you watched anime of Kanon you must know they are giving 3-4 episode for each heroine and finishing with Ayu with 5-6 episodes (besides they are giving romantic relationship route to Ayu). Why they are finishisng with Ayu? Because she is the main heroine. One more example from same vn: Almost everynight pratogonist see a dream about her (and this happens before you chose any route) not about other heroines (and yes, he met 4:5 of other heroines before) and yet he sees only her at his dreams. Not just about Kanon. Others too have similar cirsumstances like this.

I have a special method to understand a vn has a main heroine or not, even before starting read. When you open up a vn page at this site first you see main image of vn. At that image mostly you can see all heroines in the game. Main heroine is at most front one or at the middle one (this method is not absolute but has a high percent chance of success). And sometimes only main heroine at that image. Also you can get a very good idea from character introductions and if there is one, opening cinematics. You can get idea even from short vn description right of main vn image. For example "The day after he arrives he goes into town where he (literally) bumps into a girl named Ayu Tsukimiya, and Yuuichi’s memories slowly begin to return". Why that little description has only has Ayu's name? Because she is the main heroine.

One more thing most of "osananajimi"s are main heroines. This is not absolute too but have a very very high chance. And if a vn has one of "One True End" tag or "Childhood Promise" tag that vn has ABSOLUTELY has a main heroine. But you give a -3 to even Wind a Breath of Heart and Clannad (they have both One True End and Childhood Promise tag). All visual novels with One True End tag or Childhood Promise tag has main heroines, but of course not all visual novels with main heroines has One True End or Childhood Promise.

Now of course i'm not telling you change your votes immediately but at least consider of your -3s.

I am sorry if im used wrong words and letters or repeat same words over and over, my English not that good but i can understand mostly when im reading.Last modified on 2012-01-13 at 11:08
#2 by usagi
2012-01-06 at 15:31
Ok. But what about that statement
But some are built around a specific heroine, who has two or three times of screen time.
from your definition? You see, all these vn's, to which I gave -3 doesn't have x2 or x3 times of screen time to one heroine. It's that simple. And it's seems strange to me when creator of the tag themselves breaks his own rules.
Moreover, all those vns can be described as
Don't use this tag if all heroines equally important with some appearing just a little more than the rest.
For example, in Wind after some first 20 hours of play you will see "main heroine" well maybe 2-3 times only.. (afaik true route there are about Hikari?). As for Minamo - she appears in common route there no more than any others if you don't count couple of short scenes with memories about promise.
Of course screen time is important factor but i mean with "important" most standing out heroine, maybe a heroine with important memories for her with protagonist and maybe a heroine feeling most love against protagonist.
Why then in your definition there aren't single word about that? On the contrary screentime there definetly highlighted as most important factor.
And I think you must agree that things like "standing out" or "with most love" are very subjective while screentime - are not.

All visual novels with One True End tag or Childhood Promise tag has main heroines, but of course not all visual novels with main heroines has One True End or Childhood Promise.
It's not true. For example in Da Capo there are childhood friend aka "wakeup girl", "childhood promise" with another girl and dreams about her, but main heroine there is definetly Kotori who is absolutely new girl at first (if main heroine=canon girl). And technically, judging by your definition there aren't any main girls at all because all of them have more or less the same amount of screentime - each in her own route.
Well, I atleast will change my vote to those games you mention to -2 or -1, if you requested that so nicely :)Last modified on 2012-01-06 at 16:00
#3 by pendelhaven
2012-01-06 at 15:47
IMO there's no "main heroine" in DC. if there's one, I'd point it to, sadly, Nemu since she's ALWAYS in the box art of DC 1, 2 and even 3 (I know they're carbon copies but all of them are technically Nemu)
#4 by kei-tr
2012-01-06 at 15:58
But when i sugessted the tag my description is exactly this "This visual novel has a heroine more important than other heroines or has more interaction with protagonist than other heroines. Don't use this tag if all heroines is equally impotant". After acception from a moderator i found it like this. Mostly changed. I wish that description come back to its orginal state or actually i think i decribed it better at above.

It's will be a little blaming but it's moderator's fault who accepted tag. This is source of misunderstanding. I didn't wrote a single thing about screen time when i described tag.

And sorry about "Childhood Promise" thing because i newly started to read vn. 6 moths or something. My experience is little.Last modified on 2012-01-06 at 17:24
#5 by usagi
2012-01-06 at 15:59
IMO there's no "main heroine" in DC. if there's one, I'd point it to, sadly, Nemu since she's ALWAYS in the box art of DC 1, 2 and even 3 (I know they're carbon copies but all of them are technically Nemu)
I said it too
And technically, judging by your definition there aren't any main girls at all because all of them have more or less the same amount of screentime - each in her own route.
And if Nemu - main heroine, why protagonist had childhood promise with other girl? ) I think screentime is the most important and reliable factor there after all.
#6 by kei-tr
2012-01-06 at 17:24
And I think you must agree that things like "standing out" or "with most love" are very subjective while screentime - are not.
I agree you are right but it's hard to put to words, they are best i can tell. But every reader can see Ayu main heroine at the Kanon or Nagisa main heroine at Clannad. And giving them low score with a tag named "Main Heroine" is sad and odd. Because of she is close screen time with other heroines Ayu not a main heroine? Only way a heroine to be main heroine is screen time factor? Let it be subjective i think it's better this way from the way is now.
#7 by gabezhul
2012-01-06 at 19:18
Just for reference, I checked my list, and out of 103 VNs, only 8 had definitive main heroines...
What I'm trying to say is that... are you 100% sure that we need this tag on the first place?

But more on the topic, a "main heroine" is more about the fact that the story is designed around her, rather than screen time and whatnot. My example: Usami Haru from G-senjou is the main heroine not because of screen time or childhood promises and silly things like that, but because the entire narrative is built around her little crusade against maou and her ending is the one that completes the story.

Speaking of which, I move this thread to the main discussion board, because I think the subjective nature of the matter requires more eyes...

Finally, a few examples of VNs with/without main heroines and why:

-Tsukihime -> No main heroine
-Reason: Well, at first it seems kind of obvious that Arc would be the MH, but think about it: she doesn't even appear in FSotM routes! That's roughly 60% of the game! Also, as per Nasu, there is no canonical route, so as far as I'm concerned, every heroine is on the same level.

-Clannad -> Nagisa
-Reason: Um... The friggin After Story? Sure, her normal route had no higher priority than any other routes, but it's still "her" story that concludes the game.

-Muv Luv (+Alternative) -> No main heroine
-Reason: This one is tricky. You see in MLE, Sumika and Meiya have equal priority, in MLU, each heroine has the same priority, while in MLA, we only have a singe heroine... So yeah, technically, the title should go to Sumika by sheer importance, but as I said, in ML there is no MH, while in MLA there is only one heroine, so she cannot be the "main" one, not to mention that MLA is not exactly about romance on the first place...

-Fate/Stay Night -> No main heroine
-Simply put, each heroine has the same priority in the eyes of the narrative. Also, no canonical route either, so that's it.

-YU-NO -> YU-NO
-Reason: Err... Duh...? :P
All right, technically there shouldn't really be a main heroine here, but for god's sake, technically the entire game revolves around her (even when the reader doesn't even know who she is), and her "route" is the one that concludes the story.

-Steins;Gate -> Kurisu
-Reason: Plot-relevance, and her "true" route is the one that gives us the final ending and concludes the whole story.

-Zanmataisei Demonbane -> Al Azif
-Reason: This one is a little bit more subjective than I would like it, but here is comes: Overall plot-importance, her route is the most complete, the one that closes down the most plot-threads and the only one that actually feels like a "proper" ending with closure.

-Cross+Channel -> No main heroine
-Reason: Simply put, each heroine had about the same level of importance to the plot (about being the key word here), not to mention that this game wasn't that much about the heroines as the protag on the first place...

-G-senjou no Maou -> Usami Haru
-Reason: Already stated above.

-Sharin no Kuni -> No main heroine
-Reason: Once again, tricky. If I were to just play it by ear, I would go with Natsumi, but technically speaking, that would be wrong. To put it bluntly, the reason is that choosing a heroine didn't matter jack beside a tiny little epilogue at the end, no other effect on the story whatsoever...

-Kanon -> No main heroine
-Reason: Once again, each heroine is on the same page. The only reason why people think Ayu is the MH because she is on the cover, but from the viewpoint of the narrative, each heroine is equally important (or unimportant, as we don't really have a plot there, only the usual, self-contained nakige goodness...)

-Yukizakura -> No main heroine
-Reason: Same as Kanon. Each heroine is equally important.
#8 by pendelhaven
2012-01-06 at 19:34
^
nah not really. As for why I even replied here before you moving this into the main board, you can blame my RSS feed for it XD

I didn't knew that this topic was at a rather more private area.Last modified on 2012-01-06 at 19:35
#9 by yorhel
2012-01-06 at 19:41
Just for reference, I checked my list, and out of 103 VNs, only 8 had definitive main heroines...
What I'm trying to say is that... are you 100% sure that we need this tag on the first place?
8 out of the entire database is already enough to warrant a tag. :-)

As for the tagging: If we follow kei-tr's idea of "main heroine", then the tag will pretty much apply to every game. If you look hard enough *every* VN will have at least one heroine that is given more attention than the others. I've no idea what guidelines to follow when deciding on when to use it or not, the current "time" thing kinda works, but Gabe's idea isn't bad either. In any case, it certainly shouldn't be used for v71. I mostly agree with usagi's tag votes on the VNs I've read.
#10 by PabloC
2012-01-06 at 20:57
Hey, 8/103 is not that rare. And this tag can be quite useful. For example - if you discover that an unbearably annoying girl is the main heroine, you can save yourself some frustration and drop the VN at once.

As for the description, what's the point of mentioning the "wake up scene"? How about switching the first line with something like that:
"Even though this VN has multiple heroines, one is more important for the plot. She has much more screen time than other heroines, her route is the true/canon one, and/or only her ending completes the whole story."

Other examples of VNs with a main heroine would be Princess Waltz, Gimai - Hitomi and Monmusu Quest. I'm not entirely sure about Shiawase no Katachi, but I'd say it qualifies too.

And what about Ever 17? Even though it definitely has a main route, the heroine herself isn't that significant. It's the true protagonist that counts after all. So I'd say there's no main heroine there.Last modified on 2012-01-06 at 20:59
#11 by gabezhul
2012-01-06 at 21:16
-Ever 17 -> No main heroine
-Reason: The actual heroines are pretty much equal in importance, while, even though it's called the Coco-route, the true ending has nothing to do with one specific heroine...

-Princess Waltz -> Chris
-Reason: It's quite obvious. The first half of the game is dedicated to this heroine, she has the greatest plot-relevance and, most importantly, the other heroines are almost completely disregarded by the ending (and the canon for that matter).

-Gimai - Hitomi -> Hitomi
-Reason: Her route is the only one that actually gives a decent ending, at least from a narrative perspective. All the others are either bad-ends or just "end", hanging in the air without any proper closure.

-Monmusu Quest -> No main heroine
-Reason: Same as MLA: Technically Alice is the only "actual" heroine in the game (at least this far), so you cannot really call her the "main" heroine because she is the "only" heroine.

-Shiawase no Katachi -> Minamo(?)
-Reason: Okay, hands up... Technically, Minamo's true ending has to be unlocked, but it's the same level of ending as all the others. It doesn't further the story, it only gives a kind of forced happy ending that is no more complete than the others... But she is still in the middle of the story and the most prominent character... so yeah, borderline.Last modified on 2012-01-07 at 10:36
#12 by kei-tr
2012-01-06 at 21:54
I am started to think it changes what is people understands or expects a main heroine. For gabezhul, if narrative looks point of view from that heroine then that vn has a main heroine. For me, well i wrote my thoughts above.

As for the tagging: If we follow kei-tr's idea of "main heroine", then the tag will pretty much apply to every game. If you look hard enough *every* VN will have at least one heroine that is given more attention than the others
Actually even i, can't put this tag to visual novels like Yume Miru Kisuri or Katawa Shoujo. And not even to mention this if a vn has only a single heroine we shouldn't use this tag either. But yes not just 8 but lot of visual novels can have this tag, with a high score or low score. That's why i'm really suprised when see something as important as this tag not put there a long time ago.

Why we are not just put it simply? Lets reader decide. If reader think there is a main hereoine then they give a high score for that tag if they don't think there is one then they give low score or give a minus score to that tag. But for that we must erase about screen timing thing from description. That misleads people.Last modified on 2012-01-06 at 22:01
#13 by gabezhul
2012-01-06 at 22:04
For gabezhul, if narrative looks point of view from that heroine then that vn has a main heroine
Please clarify what you mean by this one, your English is a little foggy.

(...) ...lot of visual novels can have this tag, with a high score or low score.
I disagree on the fore! A game either has a main heroine or it doesn't. What would lower scores mean on the first place? That the game has just a little bit of a main heroine? o_0?

Simply put, this is not a subjective thing. It's on the same level as "male protagonist" and "erotic content". It's either there or not. The problem we are facing is to make an unambiguous description by which one can decide with 100% accuracy if the tag should be added or not...Last modified on 2012-01-06 at 22:05
#14 by kei-tr
2012-01-06 at 22:48
Please clarify what you mean by this one, your English is a little foggy.

You wrote this My example: Usami Haru from G-senjou is the main heroine not because of screen time or childhood promises and silly things like that, but because the entire narrative is built around her little crusade against maou and her ending is the one that completes the story.
and this
The only reason why people think Ayu is the MH because she is on the cover, but from the viewpoint of the narrative, each heroine is equally important.
If i put it roughly, for you, if narrative takes a side of a heroine then that is main heroine. At least this is what i understand what you said. If i understand it wrongly then i'm sorry.

A game either has a main heroine or it doesn't. What would lower scores mean on the first place? That the game has just a little bit of a main heroine? o_0?
Actually yes. If that heroine is not that stands out or not that important in other words, not a high level, but medium or small level importantance than other heroines then that heroine has a lower score. If i do the way you say then i must score a tag just with +3 or -3. But i can vote them -2,-1,0,+1 or +2. I think you are going two extreme a little.

Simply put, this is not a subjective thing. It's on the same level as "male protagonist" and "erotic content". It's either there or not. The problem we are facing is to make an unambiguous description by which one can decide with 100% accuracy if the tag should be added or not...
That's makes things harder. Because that is not a easy tag to decribe easily as male protagonist or sexual content. Besides i mentioned it before people has differently understands or different expectations from a main heroine. That makes hard to describe it with a absolute description. But i'm open up to all ideas. And if you want to erase it from tags list because of this i understand it.Last modified on 2012-01-07 at 13:20
#15 by PabloC
2012-01-06 at 22:51
@11
You're totally right about Monmusu Quest, I counted the knights too, but yeah, they aren't really heroines. At least not yet. *hopes for some more fluffy tail endings in part 2* :D

As for Shiawase no Katachi though, after I gave it a bit more thought, I'm now convinced that it deserves that tag. See, it's not just about the ending. Minamo is the central character of the whole story. She is the cause of everything that happens there after all. Also, she hangs around the protagonist most of the time, whether you like it or not (probably the latter), and as far as I remember, appears quite frequently even in other character's routes.

What would lower scores mean on the first place?
"3" should indicate that a whole VN is built on the MH thingy, like G-Senjou for example, while lower ratings say, that there is a MH, but it's less significant for the plot (Demonbane or Hitomi for example). Well, that's how I use it at least. :P
#16 by gabezhul
2012-01-06 at 23:11
@Kei-tr:
Okay, we have some problems with the usage of the language here, but fear not, we can sort this out! :P

To put it bluntly, the point what you misunderstand is this: Haru is a main heroine BECAUSE the game's narrative is built around her, while Ayu is NOT a main heroine because she is just one of the many, equally standing heroines in the narrative.

Also, although I now agree with the gradual rating (read lower to find the reason), your reasoning is flawed. If a single heroine is a "little" more important than the rest, then she is not a main heroine. The entire point of a main heroine is that her story is THE most important part of the game and the one that reveals the most/gives out the best/final ending. Say, Arc is technically more important than Hisui in Tsukihime, but that doesn't make her the main heroine, since in the end, all the heroine routes are equals...
Pabloc's interpretation hits this fact home a lot better: if a game is entirely centered around the main heroine so clearly that the others are "just" sub-heroines, then it's a 3. If less so, then the score is lower (so, say, Clannad is a 3, Steins;Gate is a 2 and Demonbane is a 1).

Also, there is no point in talking about removing the tag anymore, as it has been pretty much proven that it can be applied and can be useful.

@Pabloc: Touché, on both points...
For SnK, I played that game a long time ago, so yeah, after wracking my brain a little more, even I realized that Minamo is pretty much the central heroine (sadly), so yeah... -.-'

As for the votes... You made a good point, I stand defeated. :PLast modified on 2012-01-07 at 10:40
#17 by kei-tr
2012-01-07 at 00:08
while Ayu is NOT a main heroine because she is just one of the many, equally standing heroines in the narrative.

If she is one of equally standing heroines in the narrative then why...
If you watched anime of Kanon you must know they are giving 3-4 episode for each heroine and finishing with Ayu with 5-6 episodes (besides they are giving romantic relationship route to Ayu). Why they are finishisng with Ayu? Because she is the main heroine. One more example from same vn: Almost everynight pratogonist see a dream about her (and this happens before you chose any route) not about other heroines (and yes, he met 4:5 of other heroines before) and yet he sees only her at his dreams. Not just about Kanon. Others too have similar cirsumstances like this.

you can get a very good idea from character introductions and if there is one, opening cinematics. You can get idea even from short vn description right of main vn image. For example "The day after he arrives he goes into town where he (literally) bumps into a girl named Ayu Tsukimiya, and Yuuichi’s memories slowly begin to return". Why that little description has only has Ayu's name? Because she is the main heroine.

One more thing most of "osananajimi"s are main heroines. This is not absolute too but have a very very high chance.
...she has this differences from other heroines?(don't count last thing for Kanon 4:5 of heroines are there is osananajimi)


Say, Arc is technically more important than Hisui in Tsukihime, but that doesn't make her the main heroine, since in the end, all the heroine routes are equals...
I didn't read Tsukihime but is like as you are treating main heroine tag as like One True End. Maybe you are only looking of importance of endings. I'm looking entire vn when i'm judging it is have a main heroine or not. I mentioned it before all visual novels with One True End has main heroines, but of course not all visual novels with main heroines has One True End.

Also, there is no point in talking about removing the tag anymore, as it has been pretty much proven that it can be applied and can be useful.
Then i'll be grateful if you don't emphasize screen timing thing that much. It's misleads people. Besides you accepted Clannad can have a 3 but i don't think she has that much screen time than other heroines (at least before after story?).Last modified on 2012-01-07 at 00:27
#18 by gabezhul
2012-01-07 at 00:57
Okay, are we reading the same thread here? I haven't been agreeing with the whole screen-time thing from the very beginning, so why would I emphasize it? My arguments were never about screen time, but about narrative importance.

As for Ayu:
-The anime has absolutely nothing to do with this. Argument denied.
-The dreams are related to the metaphysics and not her directly. Argument denied. (though this is the closest you actually come to making one, so kudos for trying)
-Saying that there are other VNs like this is not an argument, as you still haven't proven that Kanon is relevant on the first place. Argument denied.
-Descriptions and cover images don't mean jack shit as they have nothing to do with the actual story. You know, the important part? Argument denied.
-The osanajimi thing is unproven and arbitrarily. Bring up one example, I bring up one counter-example for this, it's that inconsistent. Argument denied.

In conclusion, your arguments are invalid. We are not looking for "a heroine who is a little more important and/or better presented in promotional material", but for a "main heroine". Ayu is NOT the main heroine of Kanon, as that game has NO main heroine. All heroines are represented more or less equally and have equally valid routes, Ayu's is no more or less important than anyone else's, and she has no greater influence on the story than any other heroine. (Unless we count the wish-thingie, but that's just grasping at straws, not to mention it only comes into picture in maybe one or two routes routes...)

And now, for the final point: not all games with one true end have a main heroine. Case in point: Ever 17, Majikoi, Chaos;Head, Remember 11, etc.
To put it simply, the "one true end" is the most easy to grasp correlation between the main heroine and the plot, and that's the exact reason why I have been over-abusing that parallel. If a game's final ending is focusing on a heroine, then it's the main heroine, but that doesn't mean that there are no "true ends" without a main heroine or main heroines without their ending being the final one.

So, to avoid further accusations, here's my ad lib view on main heroines:
A VNs main heroine is the heroine who has the most importance to the actual plot. Presentation, osanajimi status, deredereness, screen time and descriptions/covers don't matter at all. Also, the main heroine only constitutes as such if she is:
-One of the multiple, romance-able heroines in the story. (Otherwise she would be a "Single Heroine")
-In loving relationship (spoken or unspoken) with the protagonist by the end of the story. (Otherwise she wouldn't be a heroine, just a simple female character)
-Holds over-arching importance in the narrative even when it's not her route. (Otherwise she wouldn't be the "main" heroine)
-Her ending is more important/complete than the ending of other heroines, if there are such endings to begin with (Ties in with being the "main" heroine, as usually she gets the "main" ending.)

According these guidelines, all those heroines I brought up beforehand fit in perfectly, from YU-NO to Al Azif, while all the games that I labeled "no main heroine" get sorted out. And that includes Kanon. Deal with it.Last modified on 2012-01-07 at 10:42
#19 by kei-tr
2012-01-07 at 01:32
Okay okay if you say so i'm not arguing anymore don't get angry, bust just one more thing

Then i'll be grateful if you don't emphasize screen timing thing that much. It's misleads people.

When i said this i'm not talking about this discussion, i'm talking about description of main heroine tag. There is where screen timing is emphasizing link. I mean i'm grateful if you don't emphasize screen timing at there.Last modified on 2012-01-07 at 01:39
#20 by gabezhul
2012-01-07 at 01:54
First off, I'm not angry. I just love discussions like these, but weak/misleading/dumb arguments always make me a little irritated. Not to mention, the fact that my stomach hurts like hell and I can't sleep because of it, even though it's 3:00 AM in my time-zone doesn't really help either... -.-'

As for the screen time... It was a classic case of foggy English. I thought you were "warning" me not to use it and mislead people, but apparently it wasn't your intention, so let's just forget about it and move on. :PLast modified on 2012-01-07 at 02:02
#21 by usagi
2012-01-07 at 02:06
And you all forgot about Kana Little Sister ) IMO the most "main heroine" of all of them ) Tag vote=4 )

Btw what about Umineko? Beatrice counts as one or not? Well, I don't know can anybody be considered as heroine at all in the game without routes (i.e. kinetic novel) 0_0

-Muv Luv (+Alternative) -> No main heroine
-Reason: This one is tricky. You see in MLE, Sumika and Meiya have equal priority, in MLU, each heroine has the same priority, while in MLA, we only have a singe heroine... So yeah, technically, the title should go to Sumika by sheer importance, but as I said, in ML there is no MH, while in MLA there is only one heroine, so she cannot be the "main" one, not to mention that MLA is not exactly about romance on the first place...
There should be tag - "two main heroines" ))Last modified on 2012-01-07 at 02:08
#22 by gabezhul
2012-01-07 at 02:16
Uhhh... Let's just say that Umineko is so convoluted that I wouldn't be surprised if Battler would be the main heroine. :P

But seriously, no. At best, Beatrice is a "single heroine", and even then, only in Chiru. Speaking of which, is there even a romance-subplot there? I mean, sure, there is this "thing" going on between Battler and Beatrice, but taken that she's not even "real", does she even count? o_0?
#23 by assassinator
2012-01-07 at 04:59
@kei-tr
Are you seriously judging whether there's a main heroine or not by counting which girl has more episodes in an anime and seeing which girl is in the middle of a picture? That' like... I don't know what to say.

Kanon doesn't have a main heroine.

Also I'm surprised you decided to flag Kanon and Clannad with 'main heroine' but not AIR, which does actually have a clear cut main heroine.

-Muv Luv (+Alternative) -> No main heroine
There should be tag - "two main heroines" ))

If you count them separately, then you ca argue there's no main heroine for Extra and Unlimited. But since you're counting them together, it's obviously Sumika.Last modified on 2012-01-07 at 05:15
#24 by gabezhul
2012-01-07 at 09:37
If you count them separately, then you ca argue there's no main heroine for Extra and Unlimited. But since you're counting them together, it's obviously Sumika.
I counted them separately, just packed them together to save space...
Although, yeah, I would still say that "technically" neither MLE, MLU or MLA has a main heroine on their own, but if we take a step back and look at the series as one huge story, then yes, it's Sumilka without a question.Last modified on 2012-01-07 at 09:40
#25 by kiru
2012-01-07 at 10:26
Although, yeah, I would still say that "technically" neither MLE, MLU or MLA has a main heroine on their own, but if we take a step back and look at the series as one huge story, then yes, it's Sumilka without a question.

..really? Sure, it kinda fits for MLA and it's the "last part" of the "trilogy", but before that there isn't a single sign for that. Especially with MLU.. where she gets basically forgotten and the protag WILL get another girlfriend he loves. Talk about stupid plot elements, but whatever. This isn't the thread for that. Luckily such events should be rare in VNs. Pulling a "main heroine" out of your ass after half of the game, where she wasn't even there, or not more important than someone else.
It's, however, definitely NOT a story completely build around one heroine. At least half isn't. So counting it together shouldn't result in a "main heroine" tag for the whole thing either. In my opinion.


Luckily we can't count them all together anyway. So as long as nobody plugs "main heroine" on Muvluv I'm happy. Don't care about MLA. You can see that one both ways.

Other than that, I agree that "the whole story is build on her" is a better definition for the tag than "screentime" is. The whole kanon-thing was probably just a huge missunderstanding. Ayu is the main-heroine of the anime, yes, but the VN is something completely different. There.. she is the cover girl. All of the girls have their past with the protag, as cheesy as that is. (Well or at least most, I don't remember that sick girl too well)