|#1 by horseband|
2012-04-20 at 02:53
|< report >I got this game with the intention of... *cough* >_>. I'd seen the anime (which intrigued me, but felt super rushed). Well I was expecting a Nukige with some horror elements, but as I played through I noticed there was an actual story and it got more complex as I went on. My Japanese knowledge is low so I use Translator Aggregator to help me read kanji I don't know. |
So can anyone who actually understood what the hell was happening help me understand it? I know I'm asking a lot, but I'll write what I think happened based on using TA. It's quite possible everything I am saying is wrong, so it'd be nice to get some clarifications/corrections.
-Kanae was never "real". At least not in the sense of being a childhood friend. Kanae was the Doctor in the real world who was running "The Paradise." The Kanae during the game was fake and never really existed.
-Nemu wasn't actually evil. Nemu had met Keiske as a kid and then for some reason she ended up being key to the success of "The Paradise" and was put into a tube.
-Keiske was going to die and Nemu begged Kanae to save him. Kanae saved him under the agreement that Nemu would do whatever she wanted (I believe this meant Nemu would go into the tube and run the paradise?). Also there was some sort of bet (This part I'm really fuzzy on) between Kanae and Nemu. Nemu had to make Keiske kill her in the simulation as part of the bet, which is why Nemu was such a raging b****, even though she loved Keiske.
-Keiske was put through the game countless times. And every time he would have his memory wiped and put straight back into it.
-Nemu's goal was to enter the Paradise with Keiske. Keiske told Nemu he wanted to live on the real world with her, but she didn't want to do that. Keiske told her he was going to the real world and she told him goodbye (I'm guessing she assumed they would never see each other again?)
-Kanae was killed in the real world during the process of transferring Nemu to a different company (due to Kanae being a spy and betraying her company).
-Nemu's memory was wiped by Kanae it seems, because she doesn't remember Keiske at all. Plus she appears to have barely aged at all.
Okay so those were the things I think I have at least relatively correct. Below are some things I really need clarification on.
1. What exactly happened in the endings for the other girls? Are they back in the real world? Are they in the paradise? Are they still in the game's simulation?
-In Sensei's route we see her die. After that point is it the "real world natsuki" who appears? In the "epilogue" Keiske makes some comment about her personality is a lot different than when she was a teacher. This would lead me to believe they are in the real world and he is with the real world Natsuki.
-I got majorly lost in Rika's route too. I was pretty sure she died but then she came back. Did Keiske end up in Paradise and that's why she was back, or is he just back in the real world?
-For the last girl's route, I was really confused. So it appears that her and Keiske end up in Paradise? As soon as they open the doors Keiske wakes up like it was all a dream. Considering she is limbless in real life I figure they ended up in Paradise.
2. Was that heroine really Keiske's daughter? She called him father in the true route and in her own route.
3. Why was she missing all her limbs? In the "game" she is placed into concrete, but that doesn't really explain why she is like that in real life.
Like I said, I know I'm asking a lot but my curiosity got the best of me and the story really ended up grabbing me.
|#2 by zero009|
2012-04-20 at 06:14
|< report >Your first spoiler is more or less correct from what I remember.|
As for the next spoiler:
1. I think they still happen in the simulation. The bet ends after Nemu succeeds in making Keisuke kill her or after Keisuke chooses one of the other heroines. So in the other routes Nemu lost the bet and the simulation just goes on... at least that's what I think. Though in real life Keisuke's life is in the hands of Kanae so those endings aren't exactly that positive.
-It was said that the water was released from the tube right after Keisuke went to the next room, so Sensei survived that. Sure that was bit convenient...
-In Rika's route it was Sensei that saved her when she jumped of the roof.
-In Rinne route I think it is pretty obvious that they ended up in the paradise after opening that door.
2. Yeah, Rinne is Keisuke's daughter... sort of. The explanation to that was that Rinne's mother wanted the child(Keisuke's who she raped) to grow faster so she asked asked the researchers help. The researchers agreed to help her but they needed her to sacrifice the Rinne's mothers other child that was neither girl or boy. Then by genetic experiment of using fertilezed eggs in Rinne's mother to that other child Rinne was born. This would also explain why Rinne got those wierd headaches and sometimes seemed to talk to some invinsible person, when in fact she was talking to the body's original owner. At least that's how I interpreted it.
3. To this I don't know clear answer. After the researchers annihilated the cult I think they just used Rinne for experiments since she was quite special and because of that a valuable sample.
Hope that clears up some things.Last modified on 2012-04-20 at 06:15
|#3 by horseband|
2012-04-20 at 06:43
|< report >Thanks a lot. I definitely was not expecting such a fast reply. One more question if possible.|
The heroines in the simulation, were they "real"? IE were they the same as Keisuke, where they were hooked up to the machine, or were they simply programs. We see the real world counterparts for all the heroines but were they physical connected to the machines and acting out themselves? I know Rika says she had just gotten out of the simulation, but she refuses to say exactly what her simulation was. The fact that Rinna is basically permanently attached to that machine leads me to believe she wasn't actually in the simulation ... But I'm not sure.
If not, then basically the people he ended up with were "fake". If thats the case that would mean all the other endings were even less positive.
Well these kind of visual novels just make me get motivated to learn more Japanese. I'm sure I could appreciate the story a lot more if I wasn't reading it at such a broken level.Last modified on 2012-04-20 at 06:46
|#4 by zero009|
2012-04-20 at 07:39
|< report >I actually am bit confused with this too. Like you said Rika didn't tell what her game was about(It could be that Kanae told her to lie?). But then again Nemu had memories of the game, so that would mean that they are "real". Also in Rinne route there was scene where Nemu escaped(considering she was nemurihime and she was needed in real life) and that makes me question: Why would she need to escape if she was just program? |
So I would say that they were all real, but I can't say for sure. Maybe someone else can clarify this better.
Oh and actually there's couple of slight misininformation in the first spoiler:
- Keisuke was put in the game only once. Where did you got that he was put into it countless times? Unless you meant those times when Kanae was messing around with Keisuke after you first time wake up in the real world.
- Kanae actually betrayed the other company too so she was running away from both of them. I frankly have bit of a difficulty understanding her actions but that's what makes her attractive for me. I just live in under the impression that she was huge tsundere towards Keisuke(which is why she told him her location). Her fuck you as last words just reinforces it lol.Last modified on 2012-04-20 at 08:45
|#5 by horseband|
2012-04-20 at 17:40
|< report >Thanks. It's quite possible it is just a slight plot hole too or oversight from the authors. To answer your second part|
- I thought Nemu had said how it pained her to have to keep being such an ass to the one she loved every time Keisuke did the simulation. Also he makes (I think) some comment on how his memory was wiped over and over and over. Honestly I could've just misinterpreted it or completely misread it. I trust your judgement more than mine, so you are most likely correct.
-Yep, Natsuki said how Kanae betrayed Company A and went to Company B. Now she did it again and is going to Company C. Your tsundere guess is probably spot on, I also got that vibe from her. Maybe she developed feelings for him over time, maybe not. But like you said, in the end she gave him her location, which allowed him to reunite with Nemu. It's too bad real Nemu's memory was wiped.
I really enjoyed the part where they are at the gates of paradise and Nemu is trying to convince Keisuke to join her. Keisuke asks if all their friends will be there and she says that they will be, because it's paradise. Then he asks her why she waited for him, because if she went to paradise he would have "been there" (Not the real him of course).
That part was pretty thought provoking, IMO.
Well thanks for answering all my questions :)Last modified on 2012-04-20 at 17:41
|#6 by sazabi|
2012-04-21 at 03:11
|< report >reading this made me want to finish watching the anime, had it stalled for a while. |
the anime sure had a pretty f upped ending.
scat scene was pretty disgusting as well.Last modified on 2012-04-21 at 03:12
|#7 by horseband|
2012-04-21 at 04:19
|< report >Yeah I skipped through the scat scene in the game too.|
The anime was pretty bad IMO. Not sure why they only did two episodes. They could've easily made 4-6 episodes. It felt like they were planning to do more but for whatever reason they ended up only being able to do two.
The whole first episode was dedicated to basically unlocking the first door and exposition. Then suddenly they sprint through the rest of the doors in like 5 minutes and it abruptly ends in the worst way possible... It felt super rushed
To be fair though, the anime made me interested in the game. Simply because I figured the game wouldn't feel as rushed as the anime was.
|#8 by sazabi|
2012-04-21 at 07:09
|< report >shame about the anime. animation was good quality but contents sucked ass.|
|#9 by zero009|
2012-04-21 at 07:56
|< report >Yeah the anime was pretty horrible, though it's not like I expected much from the story. Still it was pretty bad as far as ero go too. Where's my Rinne reverse-rape scenes damnit!? At least they could have given that hot footjob... but I got nothing :(|
Glad to be of assistance :). This all talk actually makes me want to go re-read this game again, but I have more than enough stuff in my backlog so that needs to wait a bit longer...
And that scene you mentioned in spoiler is definitely one of the best scenes(if not the best) when talking about single scene in the game.
|#10 by fxxkinh|
2012-07-15 at 23:06
|< report >Heyy, anyone get ALL of the cg and scenes in the game? I'm missing a few and am really interested in them(specifically the one where kanae is laying down with the screen all red and it looks like she got really messed up).|
|#11 by horseband|
2012-07-15 at 23:14
|< report >link|
Using that I did. Anyways, it has a link to a save file on that page too, link
|#12 by fxxkinh|
2012-08-16 at 19:36
|< report >Thanks, and from what i've seen, theres an ending where you enslave all of them. Got an idea?|
|#13 by yimw|
2012-08-17 at 06:11
|< report >Follow the directions for the 鬼畜 ＥＮＤ (under Kanae's route).|
|#14 by azusa-nakano|
2012-11-06 at 17:20
|< report >I hate using MT but this has spiked my interest quite a bit enough to make me play it, even though there is a shitload of rape.|
Well, mostly because of course the Guro tag and the last image in the screen shots (oh ya, very sexy)
I gotta check out the CG's for this game
EDIT I checked "some" of the CG's and Is the only guro part the girl getting her head cut off with the giliten?Last modified on 2012-11-06 at 20:40
|#15 by usagi|
2012-11-06 at 20:52
|< report >No, there are more electrocuting, drowning, crushing, hanging etc. Full CG set: linkLast modified on 2012-11-06 at 20:55|
|#16 by azusa-nakano|
2012-11-06 at 21:14
|< report >Thats what im fucking talking about, not my "favorite" cup of tea though lol|
thanksLast modified on 2012-11-06 at 21:35
|#17 by bunny1ov3r|
2015-02-22 at 11:25
|< report >agree with #8|
|#18 by krzesuoo|
2015-03-08 at 20:55
|< report >I also started playing it after seeing 1 ep of anime but then vn caught my eye and i was more interested in story itself, besides I admired the limits of human imagination, truly after seeing that "master ending" I was astonished, anybody knows what did the mc to Nemu just after she was shown in that room with other girls? I didn't really understand what happened, so I'm still waiting for a translation to be released. Also this site might help get the better grasp of all routes link|
|#19 by pulsee|
2015-03-11 at 12:58
|< report >are they even gonna release translation for this novel ? They pretty much don't translate rape-hentai type novels.|
I've read Kara no Shoujo and i really wanna try this one. You can't find 'high rated' gore - mysterious - thriller type novel nowadays.
|#20 by encrypted12345|
2015-03-11 at 17:34
|< report >Mangagamer's almost done with the translation (80% or so). I'd expect it sometime this year, maybe even summer.|
|#21 by formis|
2015-12-18 at 15:37
|< report >@3 Nemu and Kanae were definitely real in the simulation, not NPCs, since they were doing their little bet and had to influence the events. As for the rest of the girls...|
In the True route after finding out about the bet for the first time (ie. when we still believe that it was Nemu forcing the best) Keisuke has a conversation with Kanae afterwards where she admits that when they were forced into the underground game, she and Nemu were the only ones not having their memories wiped/altered. If that's true, then it makes it a bit difficult to determine. Also there's the fact that Rika and Aoi continue on living with Keisuke in their respective routes, still within the simulation.
Well, several possible interpretations.
1) They're NPCs based on their real-life counterparts and possible memories Keisuke has of them, or just completely fabricated memories. The simulation was an extension of a fabricated version of the murder game that actually took place and it was never really made 100% clear who, aside from Nemu, Keisuke actually knew in real life. That'd explain why they seemed fine continue living with him in their respective routes.
2) They're all real and playing their parts in the simulation along with Nemu and Kanae. This however clashes with them willingly continuing living with Keisuke in their respective routes, which seems unlikely.
3) They're all real but have their memories altered in the simulation. This works for their respective endings, but clashes with the true route where they don't seem confused like Keisuke after waking up.
4) They're all real within the boundaries of the school simulation, but when Keisuke leaves the school with them in their respective routes it's all fabricated from then on, just like when he thought he broke Nemu's neck.
2) and 3) have obvious contradictions, so it's either 1), or 4).
And regardless of that, I still don't know what Rika is doing there. Rinne was mutilated and experimented on until she couldn't really live normally so that's that. Aoi was contracted by company B as a security, or Nemu's bodyguard of sorts I suppose so that's that as well. And Rika... is just there I guess.
One more thing that I was curious about since it wasn't ever brought up again once Keisuke woke up (at least I don't remember it) was whether Keisuke's violent urges were real, or just fabricated within his consciousness for the purpose of the simulation.Last modified on 2015-12-18 at 15:41
|#22 by dk382⭐|
2015-12-18 at 21:36
|< report >I've had some debates on this elsewhere, and the conclusion we all came to is, based on the english translation, that pretty much everything in the underground game and school game was real. Here are a couple screenshots I took during Kanae's infodump: link link They indicate that pretty much everything that went down was real and that one of the main reasons for this is that it's simultaneously part of their human experimentation and also entertainment scheme. As for why someone with the company would run away with Keisuke, well, I don't believe Rika and Rinne "join" until after everything is over at the school. Rinne had her limbs mangled by Nemu's followers in the school, and then she was carried off to the research lab and turned into what she was. Although I've honestly forgotten some details of the Rinne ending. It faded to white after entering the gates of paradise, right? So that epilogue could have been simulation. There's no real indication that Natsuki's or Rika's was, though. Rika would have not been a test subject in that route, and Natsuki was just a mercenary anyways. Since her role of bodyguard was changed and she basically became a sex toy, she probably felt betrayed and they ran away to that remote island for a reason.Last modified on 2015-12-18 at 21:48|
|#23 by formis|
2016-01-27 at 03:07
|< report >I suppose that makes the most sense afterall.|
As for my previous reasoning. After Kanae took us to Nemu and we had the set of flashbacks from Nemu's perspective where she narrates what happened before the rape game, I thought that she said something about Keisuke hooked up to a pod (virtual reality pod). I assumed that the rape game happened with all participants like that.
But after replaying that part, they just put him to sleep to let him recover from being shish-kebabed by a metal pipe through his stomach and to wipe his memories again. Then the rape game probably happened, live, like you said. Though they were willing to take great risks with Nemu's life if you ask me, especially with Rinne's cult being off the collars.
One more thing I wonder is if the super bad end where you end up dissecting Kanae, disfiguring Nemu and pretty much enslaving all the "heroines" is real or virtual, since that scenario seems kinda counter-productive for the 'Sleeping Beauty' project. True, Nemu is still alive, but broken in a way that doesn't seem like what they had in mind for her. They wanted her to despair so much that simple death wouldn't seem like an option anymore (someone needs to do Danganronpa crossover :P) but in this bad end she was just mind-broken, not despairing.Last modified on 2016-01-27 at 03:07
|#24 by solar90|
2016-03-20 at 23:43
|< report >Speaking of super bad/brutal end, I wonder who it was this shadow man that said he was a messenger of his master, and who is this master.|
|#25 by rock41t|
2016-11-22 at 21:38
|< report >@24 I think the master was just someone else entirely that didn't like how Kanae was running the process to make Nemu a Sleeping Princess (Forcing Nemu to Make Keisuke hate her, so Nemu would ending hating the world). |
Instead the Master's plan was just to make Keisuke break Nemu by force (making her feel utter despair) and completing the Sleeping Princess process in a less complicated way than Kanae's bet with Nemu. Last modified on 2016-11-22 at 21:56